Not GGG bashing but...

[Beanz]

I thought Golovkin won the fight last night, won the first Canelo fight and narrowly won the second Canelo fight, (though I could see how you could make it a draw or give it to Canelo, you can't do that with the first one so easily) . Is GGG not allowed narrow wins or close fights then? Surely being in those kind of fights and getting the win adds to his legacy not takes away? I don't think Canelo is over rated at all. He is massively under-rated. All the weight difference and drug cheating stuff is bollocks don't get me wrong, he doesn't get a free pass, but i think that has caused people to be very grudging in awarding him any justified praise. Much of his boxing is very classy and at times, sublime. He is an elite fighter and Oscar being a dick does not nullify that. So with that in mind GGG is anything but a mug. He fought someone who will go down as a modern great (maybe not at the same level as many past greats) arguably beat him twice, made a ton of money and increased his exposure and has dealt with every fighter put in front of him with real gutsy and quality displays.

Great Fighter.

I was trying to follow you on that until I got to the "massively under-rated" part.


HAHAHAHAHA!!!


Stop it you're killing me here. Did you reread what you just wrote?? Massively underrated?? Canelo is Mr. Boxing, FFS man!! Wake the f*ck up and smell the roses!

Nobody underrates Canelo. TV fawns all over him. Non-boxing fans are acutely aware of that "handsome" ginger face. Vegas will probably be renamed in his honor. They're even building a NEW STADIUM, FFS..... not for the relocated NFL franchise, which is just a flimsy excuse and what Vegas would want you to believe. It's gonna be a shrine for The Anointed One.

In what galaxy, pray tell..... is Canelo even f*cking remotely close to being underrated?? Is this just another language difference between your part of the world and this one?

Dude..... I've read some doozies in my 15 years here. But this one tops them all. Canelo is not just underrated. He's MASSIVELY underrated.

Do me a favor. Be available for my next party, so I can use you for comedy. If things get slow, you can tell everyone what you just said about Canelo being "massively" underrated. I promise you, you'll have them rolling in the aisles till sunup.



The King of Boxing, who has his own boxing dates..... his own belts (which the WBC lovingly crafts for him)..... his own judges (he pays good money for them)..... and his legions of screaming female (or effeminate) fans...... is....... how'd you put it?

MASSIVELY UNDERRATED

Wow.

All of a sudden I have an urge to take a huge dump.

is everyone who has lost an unbeaten record a hype job?

at what point does someone stop being a hype job, as in how high up the ladder does someone have to go before a loss is acceptable

for example canelo just lost to mayweather and many times i have read on here that he is a hype job as shown by the defeat

yet he just lost to the best fighter in the world

if you are a popular fighter in the media, are you a hype job if you cant beat mayweather?

The easy, simple way is to look only at the number of wins and losses.
The more correct, more involved way is to look at the quality of opponents in that record.

So are you admitting that Canelo is not a hype job ? The best way to assess a fighters pedigree is to watch them fight with an open mind. If you wear blinkers then you end up seeing exactly what you want to see.

You don't post as much on the main board as you do the others, but this particular topic seems to have sparked your interest. Yeah ok, I'm not gonna pretend I had absolutely no bias while watching the fight. But some things are just plain factual. That Canelo's previously unbeaten record of 42 victories doesn't stack up well against those of other fighters with less wins and some losses? You can argue against that, but you'd be wrong. That the Canelo-Floyd fight was hyped more than just about any recent fight on record? That's pretty clear also, I believe. And that Canelo failed to deliver what many expected, given the gaudy record and the hype? Well.... most observers had it as a shutout, maybe charitably giving Canelo one round.

Maybe if I hadn't expressed myself so fervently about the fight, you'd be singing a different tune yourself. But rather, you wait to see which side you should take, and then take it. No problem.

I start plenty of threads on the main board and have always said that Canelo is underrated. So your nonsense just doesn't wash.Your last 30 odd posts have been about Canelo being unjustly rewarded and it just sounds like sour grapes. You have been calling everyone left right and centre who disagrees with you a cunt. I am not alone in noticing this. I am trying to be civil but your output is overwhelmingly negative and confrontational and its getting old fast. You have preconceptions about everyone and everything so it is pointless even trying to show you common courtesy but just as a heads up, for everyone else around the world the Mexican-Puerto rivalry is a bit childish.

From 2011

Call me crazy but I actually think Chavez Jr is a lot better than many guys think and will not only win this, but knock Alvarez out.

I got Chavez Jr by stoppage around the 10th round.

That's very possible Bilbo, a lot of us however, would like to Canelo win, by KO would be even sweeter.

For me Canelo get hits too easily and too often. So far he hasn't fought any punchers but moving up to light middle he will be in with somebody bigger than himself.

I'm not sold on Canelo's power or skills yet. I can't shake off the memory of Matthew Hatton coasting the 12 rounds with him. Gomez was schooling him until the premature stoppage. He can improve, he's only young so foolish to judge him as if he's the finished article, but I've been impressed with Chavez lately. He's maturing into a decent fighter and in his last fight showed he has real heart and a desire to win.

This would be a great clash, and boxing heaven for those who like body punches. They will both have sore ribs the next day for sure.

Alvarez is lazy in fights. He seems to want to win without breaking a sweat. He usualy comes to life for a few seconds when he gets hit too much. I have a feeling that if Chavez puts him in a position hes never been in, you will see a very deadly Alvarez. Thats just an assumption though. To me he looks like that sort of person.

I think your right I remember first seeing Alvarez hurt by Jose Cotto in the 1st round last year and it seemed to wake him up. This is why Chavez will struggle his instincts will lead him to believe that he can dominate in his own weight division but the more he puts on Alvarez the better he will get. He also showed against Rhodes he can fight on the backfoot and is far from one dimensional, unlike Chavez he has continued to test himself and his rate of improvement is greater. Chavez is no bum but "Canelo" has the potential to become HOF great.

Major miscalculation on Team Chavez's part. Probably banking on some of Canelo's recent lackluster performances. But punching power, combined with Junior's largely untested chin and heart, could factor into a big surprise.

Personally, I'd be whooping and hollering in favor of Canelo, hoping for a devastating KTFO.

He is underrated by many posters on boxing forums who can't bring themselves to acknowledge his skill set and dedication to his craft.

[Gandalf]

He has skills for sure, but he also loses a lot of rounds against a lot of fighters. Even a fat Amir Khan. If logic wins and something fishy isn't up, that chin is getting cracked next month.

[Fatboxingfan]

I thought Golovkin won the fight last night, won the first Canelo fight and narrowly won the second Canelo fight, (though I could see how you could make it a draw or give it to Canelo, you can't do that with the first one so easily) . Is GGG not allowed narrow wins or close fights then? Surely being in those kind of fights and getting the win adds to his legacy not takes away? I don't think Canelo is over rated at all. He is massively under-rated. All the weight difference and drug cheating stuff is bollocks don't get me wrong, he doesn't get a free pass, but i think that has caused people to be very grudging in awarding him any justified praise. Much of his boxing is very classy and at times, sublime. He is an elite fighter and Oscar being a dick does not nullify that. So with that in mind GGG is anything but a mug. He fought someone who will go down as a modern great (maybe not at the same level as many past greats) arguably beat him twice, made a ton of money and increased his exposure and has dealt with every fighter put in front of him with real gutsy and quality displays.

Great Fighter.

I was trying to follow you on that until I got to the "massively under-rated" part.


HAHAHAHAHA!!!


Stop it you're killing me here. Did you reread what you just wrote?? Massively underrated?? Canelo is Mr. Boxing, FFS man!! Wake the f*ck up and smell the roses!

Nobody underrates Canelo. TV fawns all over him. Non-boxing fans are acutely aware of that "handsome" ginger face. Vegas will probably be renamed in his honor. They're even building a NEW STADIUM, FFS..... not for the relocated NFL franchise, which is just a flimsy excuse and what Vegas would want you to believe. It's gonna be a shrine for The Anointed One.

In what galaxy, pray tell..... is Canelo even f*cking remotely close to being underrated?? Is this just another language difference between your part of the world and this one?

Dude..... I've read some doozies in my 15 years here. But this one tops them all. Canelo is not just underrated. He's MASSIVELY underrated.

Do me a favor. Be available for my next party, so I can use you for comedy. If things get slow, you can tell everyone what you just said about Canelo being "massively" underrated. I promise you, you'll have them rolling in the aisles till sunup.



The King of Boxing, who has his own boxing dates..... his own belts (which the WBC lovingly crafts for him)..... his own judges (he pays good money for them)..... and his legions of screaming female (or effeminate) fans...... is....... how'd you put it?

MASSIVELY UNDERRATED

Wow.

All of a sudden I have an urge to take a huge dump.

is everyone who has lost an unbeaten record a hype job?

at what point does someone stop being a hype job, as in how high up the ladder does someone have to go before a loss is acceptable

for example canelo just lost to mayweather and many times i have read on here that he is a hype job as shown by the defeat

yet he just lost to the best fighter in the world

if you are a popular fighter in the media, are you a hype job if you cant beat mayweather?

The easy, simple way is to look only at the number of wins and losses.
The more correct, more involved way is to look at the quality of opponents in that record.

So are you admitting that Canelo is not a hype job ? The best way to assess a fighters pedigree is to watch them fight with an open mind. If you wear blinkers then you end up seeing exactly what you want to see.

You don't post as much on the main board as you do the others, but this particular topic seems to have sparked your interest. Yeah ok, I'm not gonna pretend I had absolutely no bias while watching the fight. But some things are just plain factual. That Canelo's previously unbeaten record of 42 victories doesn't stack up well against those of other fighters with less wins and some losses? You can argue against that, but you'd be wrong. That the Canelo-Floyd fight was hyped more than just about any recent fight on record? That's pretty clear also, I believe. And that Canelo failed to deliver what many expected, given the gaudy record and the hype? Well.... most observers had it as a shutout, maybe charitably giving Canelo one round.

Maybe if I hadn't expressed myself so fervently about the fight, you'd be singing a different tune yourself. But rather, you wait to see which side you should take, and then take it. No problem.

I start plenty of threads on the main board and have always said that Canelo is underrated. So your nonsense just doesn't wash.Your last 30 odd posts have been about Canelo being unjustly rewarded and it just sounds like sour grapes. You have been calling everyone left right and centre who disagrees with you a cunt. I am not alone in noticing this. I am trying to be civil but your output is overwhelmingly negative and confrontational and its getting old fast. You have preconceptions about everyone and everything so it is pointless even trying to show you common courtesy but just as a heads up, for everyone else around the world the Mexican-Puerto rivalry is a bit childish.

From 2011

Call me crazy but I actually think Chavez Jr is a lot better than many guys think and will not only win this, but knock Alvarez out.

I got Chavez Jr by stoppage around the 10th round.

That's very possible Bilbo, a lot of us however, would like to Canelo win, by KO would be even sweeter.

For me Canelo get hits too easily and too often. So far he hasn't fought any punchers but moving up to light middle he will be in with somebody bigger than himself.

I'm not sold on Canelo's power or skills yet. I can't shake off the memory of Matthew Hatton coasting the 12 rounds with him. Gomez was schooling him until the premature stoppage. He can improve, he's only young so foolish to judge him as if he's the finished article, but I've been impressed with Chavez lately. He's maturing into a decent fighter and in his last fight showed he has real heart and a desire to win.

This would be a great clash, and boxing heaven for those who like body punches. They will both have sore ribs the next day for sure.

Alvarez is lazy in fights. He seems to want to win without breaking a sweat. He usualy comes to life for a few seconds when he gets hit too much. I have a feeling that if Chavez puts him in a position hes never been in, you will see a very deadly Alvarez. Thats just an assumption though. To me he looks like that sort of person.

I think your right I remember first seeing Alvarez hurt by Jose Cotto in the 1st round last year and it seemed to wake him up. This is why Chavez will struggle his instincts will lead him to believe that he can dominate in his own weight division but the more he puts on Alvarez the better he will get. He also showed against Rhodes he can fight on the backfoot and is far from one dimensional, unlike Chavez he has continued to test himself and his rate of improvement is greater. Chavez is no bum but "Canelo" has the potential to become HOF great.

Major miscalculation on Team Chavez's part. Probably banking on some of Canelo's recent lackluster performances. But punching power, combined with Junior's largely untested chin and heart, could factor into a big surprise.

Personally, I'd be whooping and hollering in favor of Canelo, hoping for a devastating KTFO.

He is underrated by many posters on boxing forums who can't bring themselves to acknowledge his skill set and dedication to his craft.

Fantastic retort. Totally substantiates original statement that YES Canelo IS underrated by MANY posters. Uncanny ability to integrate diverse sources of corroborating info -- oftentimes remote and forgotten -- to build and win an argument. Should have been a lawyer. Maybe really is in real life. Great stuff.

Jealous, actually.

[TitoFan]

Most of us don't have the time nor the inclination to dredge up old posts like that.

[imp]

GGG is a warrior but should have fought BJS and he should or could have move moved up in weight..BUT..he stayed where the money was (Canelo) rather than risk it as a multiple weight champion..there was also a potential fight with Andre Ward by meeting at 160..if he beat Ward he would have been P4P.

I had both fights with Canelo close and GGG could not seem to copy or better what an old, smaller Floyd Mayweather did to Canelo.

[TitoFan]

Canelo is most certainly NOT massive underrated (that is beyond comical, TBH)..... and is most decidedly OVERrated.
I'll proceed to list the reasons why.

1. The ONE time Canelo got put in with the consensus #1 p4p, in the form of Floyd Mayweather, he was shutout in embarrassing fashion. It wasn't even close. Those who had demanded that the fight happen had to watch helplessly as Floyd proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the two didn't belong in the same ring. To Canelo's credit, he's got so much pull with the Vegas mafia, that one PROFESSIONAL boxing judge inexplicably called the fight a draw. The fact that this judge still judges fights is a testament to the corruption in boxing, and to the favoritism of the WBC toward marquee Mexican champions such as Canelo.

2. When Amir Khan stupidly got in the ring with Canelo, two weight divisions higher, he was ALSO shutting out Canelo. But Canelo just bided his time, much like Teofilo Stevenson used to do in the heavyweights with his big right hand cocked and loaded. Inevitably all Canelo had to do was connect once..... and that's exactly what happened. Circus show of a fight.

3. Canelo fought his first 30 fights against a collection of nobodies, has-beens, never-will-bes, over-the-hill fighters, and woefully undersized opposition. Size was always in Canelo's favor. He was groomed for stardom (not greatness..... there's a difference) since Day One. Why? Because he was a handsome, ginger-haired Mexican who would make the girls swoon and could develop legions of fans. By the time he was finished bloating his record, he already had the silver spoon in his mouth.

4. Canelo has been the benefactor of plenty of dodgy decisions. Please nobody try and make it all about Golovkin. Canelo has had the judges in his pocket waaaaay before that. One of the only fights I'll give him credit for was Austin Trout. Erislandy Lara got robbed as well. In Vegas.... if you fight Ginger..... you'd better knock him out and STILL cross your fingers and hope you win the fight.

5. The term "cherry picker" in the dictionary has Canelo's picture next to it. Look no further than Rocky Fielding, the butt of jokes even in this very forum. It was like watching a National Geographic documentary where the crocodile picks off the weak, lame buffalo calf as it scrunches down to get a drink of water at the river's edge. And like the crocodile, off goes Canelo... slinking back into the middleweight river, lest the other buffaloes get a hold of him.

6. The GGG saga itself. Everyone forgets how Canelo chose to let the first fight with GGG (cough) "marinate", because Canelo still had to "grow" into 160 pounds. Instead, they were inviting GGG to go down to 154. Then..... out of the blue..... the crocodile spots the much heavier Julio Cesar Chavez Jr...... ripe for the picking like the mummy he is..... and goes up to 170. That's one hundred and seventy FUCKING pounds...... to pick JCC Jr. off. But supposedly he couldn't meet Golovkin at 160. It's all on Canelo's time. Anyone who doesn't realize that by now hasn't been around the last few years.

7. Speaking of weights..... the catchweight bullshit. Sure... others have done it. But Canelo has made it his own sweet science. Frankly, it's become a joke. People in the know talk about Canelo fighting for the 165.75 pound championship and shit like that, because that's how much of a joke Canelo has turned weight divisions into. No matter. Canelo follows the JCC Jr. playbook to a tee..... and always manages to show up to fights 20 or more pounds heavier than the other guy.

8. He's a drug cheat. On top of ALL THE OTHER FUCKING ADVANTAGES the Ginger has ever had bestowed upon him by everyone in boxing, where his throne had been dusted off while he was fighting cab drivers in Mexico, the guy STILL manages to sully his reputation by being a drug cheat. Then..... as if by Hollywood script..... he gets a tap on the wrist to the amount of a 6-month suspension, which was the time he was taking off between fights ANYWAY.



"Canelo is massively underrated."


Ha! You'll never find a better opening line for a standup routine than that one.

[Beanz]

Canelo IS massively underrated. You are not alone in refusing to acknowledge his quite extraordinary career. He hasn't even finished yet.

You don't have to like him or make excuses for the drugs, his weight shenanigans or pretend Oscar is not a knob. Just admit you and many have underrated him. What if he stops Kov?



(:

[TitoFan]

Canelo IS massively underrated. You are not alone in refusing to acknowledge his quite extraordinary career. He hasn't even finished yet.

You don't have to like him or make excuses for the drugs, his weight shenanigans or pretend Oscar is not a knob. Just admit you and many have underrated him. What if he stops Kov?



(:

"Great" retort. Small wonder you got kudos from Fats. However, I just gave you 8 reasons why Canelo, if anything, is OVERrated. I could've easily made it 10.

You respond with... "he's underrated because I said so."

Keep up the good work.

[Fatboxingfan]

Canelo IS massively underrated. You are not alone in refusing to acknowledge his quite extraordinary career. He hasn't even finished yet.

You don't have to like him or make excuses for the drugs, his weight shenanigans or pretend Oscar is not a knob. Just admit you and many have underrated him. What if he stops Kov?



(:

"Great" retort. Small wonder you got kudos from Fats. However, I just gave you 8 reasons why Canelo, if anything, is OVERrated. I could've easily made it 10.

You respond with... "he's underrated because I said so."

Keep up the good work.

TBH that second retort was not great like the first one, which was definitely great.

And sir, Mr. Tito Fan, your points in response to that first great retort of Mr. Beanz was pretty pretty accurate. I thought it was nice the way you tried to imply that the ladies swooning over the Ginger-Haired One may have had something to do with the clenbuterol of the tainted beef in Guadalajara.

I mean hell it's not like that stuff would not add to his testosterone levels.

[Gandalf]

Canelo IS massively underrated. You are not alone in refusing to acknowledge his quite extraordinary career. He hasn't even finished yet.

You don't have to like him or make excuses for the drugs, his weight shenanigans or pretend Oscar is not a knob. Just admit you and many have underrated him. What if he stops Kov?



(:

"Great" retort. Small wonder you got kudos from Fats. However, I just gave you 8 reasons why Canelo, if anything, is OVERrated. I could've easily made it 10.

You respond with... "he's underrated because I said so."

Keep up the good work.

Your arguments were solid and on point. However, I take issue with you earlier calling Canelo handsome. If Calzaghe is a 9 then Canelo is at best a 5. He is like a weird fusion of Wayne Rooney and Prince Harry. That is not good. One of those men who needs a beard to cover the face up. A good looking man doesn't need bearding.

[Beanz]

Canelo IS massively underrated. You are not alone in refusing to acknowledge his quite extraordinary career. He hasn't even finished yet.

You don't have to like him or make excuses for the drugs, his weight shenanigans or pretend Oscar is not a knob. Just admit you and many have underrated him. What if he stops Kov?



(:

"Great" retort. Small wonder you got kudos from Fats. However, I just gave you 8 reasons why Canelo, if anything, is OVERrated. I could've easily made it 10.

You respond with... "he's underrated because I said so."

Keep up the good work.

Make your mind up one minute you don't have the time or inclination to take 30 seconds to use the forums search function, and then you are drafting a bullet pointed and numbered 8 point reply

1. At the age of 23 Canelo faces the most dominant champ of the previous 10 years. The Man. He did what Cotto did only 10 years younger. He joined the likes of Pacquiao, Marquez, Mosely, De la Hoya etc in ending the fight on his feet having learned a lot and not been stopped.

2. Khan has always been MASSIVELY underrated. At times on a good night the guy is like the flash. Canelo did what he had to do sparking him in dramatic fashion. Circus show of a fight is a great compliment. Circus people are often good people and boxing would never be where it is today without them.

3. After debuting at 15 Canelo fought and beat Miguel Vazquez in his third fight. Vazquez was 19 and Canelo 16. Within 4 years Vazquez had won the IBF lightweight title, a belt he held for four years defending that belt 8 times. That hardly makes him a 'nobody, has-been, never-will-be, or over-the-hill ' opponent.

4. All Canelo can do is win the fight he is in. Dodgy decisions are there all the way through boxing from amateur to pro.

5. He fought Feilding after fighting Golovkin twice, he then fought Jacobs. It seem you yourself are happy to cherry pick to confirm your own delusions.

6. The one thing people like youself failed to get from the Golovkin saga was the irrefutable evidence it provided that Canelo had been underrated all along. The first fight was a modern classic and Alvarez proved he belonged at the very top table, even though he should have lost. He has constantly improved and added classy and sophisticated adjustments to his game you have to be a hater to miss.

7. The whole weight thing is bollocks and I am not going to defend him for that.

8. Similarly with the drugs bullshit. No excuses here for that.