Is it wrong to decry the decline of world leadership quality?

[walrus]

Want to know the REAL trouble....JFK was a Democrat back then. Today where would someone with his views fit?

Definitely. He was a bit conservative with taxes, got rid of the 90% rate, strong on military, literally thinking of launching the bomb figuring we would lose 30% or so of the US but wipe out Russia

Precisely what he DIDN'T do though did he.

Regardless of the unbearable pressures being put on him by the hawkish U.S. military leaders of the time.

But go ahead and put him down, if it helps prop up the human trash bin that inhabits the White House today.

Dude I don’t know why you took that as putting him down. It was just a historical fact that he was ready and considered doing it. Kennedy has been judged rather saintly because of the bullet. Had he served out his term history may not have been so kind. He made bad calls and did stupid shit like all other presidents plus the fiasco of corrupting the vote would have been more in the front than it was.

[TitoFan]

Want to know the REAL trouble....JFK was a Democrat back then. Today where would someone with his views fit?

Definitely. He was a bit conservative with taxes, got rid of the 90% rate, strong on military, literally thinking of launching the bomb figuring we would lose 30% or so of the US but wipe out Russia

Precisely what he DIDN'T do though did he.

Regardless of the unbearable pressures being put on him by the hawkish U.S. military leaders of the time.

But go ahead and put him down, if it helps prop up the human trash bin that inhabits the White House today.

Dude I don’t know why you took that as putting him down.

Who me? C'mon man. It's me you're talking to. I would've thought you knew me better by now. The wording was totally innocent, right?

It was just a historical fact that he was ready and considered doing it. Kennedy has been judged rather saintly because of the bullet. Had he served out his term history may not have been so kind. He made bad calls and did stupid shit like all other presidents plus the fiasco of corrupting the vote would have been more in the front than it was.

He never got the chance to serve out his term so I guess we'll never know, right? He took on the war-mongering military heads and assumed the one posture that preserved the world as people knew it back then. Never said he was perfect, if you bothered to read the opening post. Listen.... I get it that you Trumpers will stop at nothing to build up your man at the expense of past Presidents, no matter what. But at least try to retain some sort of objectiveness while you're doing it.

Thread diverted as usual.

Beginning to think Fats was right, 9 posts into the thread.

[walrus]

Want to know the REAL trouble....JFK was a Democrat back then. Today where would someone with his views fit?

Definitely. He was a bit conservative with taxes, got rid of the 90% rate, strong on military, literally thinking of launching the bomb figuring we would lose 30% or so of the US but wipe out Russia

Precisely what he DIDN'T do though did he.

Regardless of the unbearable pressures being put on him by the hawkish U.S. military leaders of the time.

But go ahead and put him down, if it helps prop up the human trash bin that inhabits the White House today.

Dude I don’t know why you took that as putting him down.

Who me? C'mon man. It's me you're talking to. I would've thought you knew me better by now. The wording was totally innocent, right?

It was just a historical fact that he was ready and considered doing it. Kennedy has been judged rather saintly because of the bullet. Had he served out his term history may not have been so kind. He made bad calls and did stupid shit like all other presidents plus the fiasco of corrupting the vote would have been more in the front than it was.

He never got the chance to serve out his term so I guess we'll never know, right? He took on the war-mongering military heads and assumed the one posture that preserved the world as people knew it back then. Never said he was perfect, if you bothered to read the opening post. Listen.... I get it that you Trumpers will stop at nothing to build up your man at the expense of past Presidents, no matter what. But at least try to retain some sort of objectiveness while you're doing it.

Thread diverted as usual.

Beginning to think Fats was right, 9 posts into the thread.

I don’t know your reading it wrong. I’ve said nothing about trump just you putting Kennedy on a pedestal in your opening stanza. You are right though, Kennedy did want troops out of Vietnam although there is some debate about it. Remember that was one of the many conspiracy theories on why he was killed. It’s odd tits, when we have brought up Obama’s policies compared to trump you have often stated the comparing of presidents gets old and I have said it’s how presidents are judged, yet here we are. We got off track because facts you don’t like were brought up about Camelot and crew. Would he have been elected if his father didn’t collude to corrupt the vote in the first place.

[walrus]

Want to know the REAL trouble....JFK was a Democrat back then. Today where would someone with his views fit?

Definitely. He was a bit conservative with taxes, got rid of the 90% rate, strong on military, literally thinking of launching the bomb figuring we would lose 30% or so of the US but wipe out Russia

Precisely what he DIDN'T do though did he.

Regardless of the unbearable pressures being put on him by the hawkish U.S. military leaders of the time.

But go ahead and put him down, if it helps prop up the human trash bin that inhabits the White House today.

Dude I don’t know why you took that as putting him down.

Who me? C'mon man. It's me you're talking to. I would've thought you knew me better by now. The wording was totally innocent, right?

It was just a historical fact that he was ready and considered doing it. Kennedy has been judged rather saintly because of the bullet. Had he served out his term history may not have been so kind. He made bad calls and did stupid shit like all other presidents plus the fiasco of corrupting the vote would have been more in the front than it was.

He never got the chance to serve out his term so I guess we'll never know, right? He took on the war-mongering military heads and assumed the one posture that preserved the world as people knew it back then. Never said he was perfect, if you bothered to read the opening post. Listen.... I get it that you Trumpers will stop at nothing to build up your man at the expense of past Presidents, no matter what. But at least try to retain some sort of objectiveness while you're doing it.

Thread diverted as usual.

Beginning to think Fats was right, 9 posts into the thread.

I don’t know your reading it wrong. I’ve said nothing about trump just you putting Kennedy on a pedestal in your opening stanza. You are right though, Kennedy did want troops out of Vietnam although there is some debate about it. Remember that was one of the many conspiracy theories on why he was killed. It’s odd tits, when we have brought up Obama’s policies compared to trump you have often stated the comparing of presidents gets old and I have said it’s how presidents are judged, yet here we are. We got off track because facts you don’t like were brought up about Camelot and crew. Would he have been elected if his father didn’t collude to corrupt the vote in the first place.

[Gandalf]

That was 1961, now 1962:

"In South Vietnam, the U.S. had 11,000 'advisers', 300 aircraft, 120 helicopters, heavy weapons, pilots flying combat missions, defoliants, and napalm.<sup>[46]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_in_the_Vietnam_War</sup>

[Gandalf]

1963: "The number of U.S. soldiers in South Vietnam rose to more than 16,000 by year's end with 122 combat deaths in just that year."

Looked to be getting kind of messy and over a 3 year period. Then when it had gone wrong by supporting a corrupt leader, they had a coup which led to his bloody death. All endorsed by Saint Kennedy.

He is probably not in heaven.

[Gandalf]

So, when Lyle suggests that Trump has handled North Korea better, he kind of has a point there.

[TitoFan]

So, when Lyle suggests that Trump has handled North Korea better, he kind of has a point there.

Jong Un plays Trump like a yo-yo, Miles. He's gotten all the concessions from Trump no one's ever given him, and he's still dangling the prospect of nuclear buildup as the carrot for even more concessions.

He and his cohorts are laughing their asses off.

How's that verification process going, BTW? Oh right....... it isn't.

But wtf am I explaining this to you for. You've drunken the Kool-Aid long ago, and the narrative never changes.

[walrus]

1963: "The number of U.S. soldiers in South Vietnam rose to more than 16,000 by year's end with 122 combat deaths in just that year."

Looked to be getting kind of messy and over a 3 year period. Then when it had gone wrong by supporting a corrupt leader, they had a coup which led to his bloody death. All endorsed by Saint Kennedy.

He is probably not in heaven.

Well 63 reports were out he wanted to pull out. Remember Eisenhower started involvement in Vietnam. Now I will say your points are valid miles, at the Eisenhower Kennedy period the CIA was chomping at the bit to get Vietnam but apparently Kennedy wanted to pull the plug leading to the conspiracy thing that the cia was involved in Kennedy’s killing.

80% of the Kennedy thing was media created. They couldn’t get enough. They did everything to show him in a positive light. Including putting down cameras when he was running around with the other babes. Damn the FBI had him by the balls. Now I like Kennedy I just look at it realistically. Lincoln is, after Washington my favorite president but Lincoln pretty much took a big steaming dump on the constitution, we can overlook that stuff.

[Gandalf]

1963: "The number of U.S. soldiers in South Vietnam rose to more than 16,000 by year's end with 122 combat deaths in just that year."

Looked to be getting kind of messy and over a 3 year period. Then when it had gone wrong by supporting a corrupt leader, they had a coup which led to his bloody death. All endorsed by Saint Kennedy.

He is probably not in heaven.

Well 63 reports were out he wanted to pull out. Remember Eisenhower started involvement in Vietnam. Now I will say your points are valid miles, at the Eisenhower Kennedy period the CIA was chomping at the bit to get Vietnam but apparently Kennedy wanted to pull the plug leading to the conspiracy thing that the cia was involved in Kennedy’s killing.

80% of the Kennedy thing was media created. They couldn’t get enough. They did everything to show him in a positive light. Including putting down cameras when he was running around with the other babes. Damn the FBI had him by the balls. Now I like Kennedy I just look at it realistically. Lincoln is, after Washington my favorite president but Lincoln pretty much took a big steaming dump on the constitution, we can overlook that stuff.

Yes, but I was just pointing out that Tito was wrong to suggest I was wrong, when the history is there is black and white and even color. I have read up a bit on Vietnam and of course watched that fantastic long version of the 10 part documentary series. A very complicated mess of a conflict, but it is factually true that Kennedy massively ramped it all up in the space of 3 years and then ordered a coup which led to more bloodshed. Why support a corrupt man in the first place and considering the result and how it was a civil war, he was not exactly Mr Peace or trying to solve the worlds problems in a decent way. He could be a plonker and mess up like everyone else seems to.

Plus with his personal failings and according to Hersch very odd habit of smuggling in women to the White House, just not a very good man. Plus if his wife was up to the same stuff as rumored it does not fit with my own values.

[walrus]

Kennedy was also the first candidate to use tv so efficiently. People who heard the Kennedy Nixon debate on the radio thought Nixon clearly one. People who saw it on TV thought Kennedy won. Nixon had a terrible fear of public speaking and would sweat like a pig and look very uncomfortable but he knew his shit. He was terribly paranoid and had low self esteem. He was winning that election (not Kennedy) by the biggest landslide and he still had to do watergate. Nixon was quite a man, lost so many runs but kept coming back. Could have been one of the great ones. At the height of impeachment he wasn’t sleeping and walking around the White House talking to portraits of the presidents. Probably in a psychotic break. I read several of his post President books and the guy really was a genius. I suppose many would argue that with me, I don’t know if they read his books.

Was Washington sending in troops to butcher Indians evil or did he just have enough of Indians attacking settlers which was left over from the British troops paying Indians for American scalps and more for the fetus of an American out of a women’s womb? Andrew Jackson fucking over Indians for access to gold when he had just set a deal with them, evil, or was the US in such dire straights it had to happen.

How about Hancock putting out those articles on John Adams having all kinds of weird sexual trysts when they were best friends but Hancock would do anything for that power. Then we could get into Hamilton and the shit he pulled as president. Who next you wanna talk Grant, he had a laundry list. We could do this all night, I got something on all of them James K Polk and illegal wars. This isn’t about making trump look good but if we are going to compare him with other presidents, let’s do it.

[TitoFan]

Want to know the REAL trouble....JFK was a Democrat back then. Today where would someone with his views fit?

Definitely. He was a bit conservative with taxes, got rid of the 90% rate, strong on military, literally thinking of launching the bomb figuring we would lose 30% or so of the US but wipe out Russia

Precisely what he DIDN'T do though did he.

Regardless of the unbearable pressures being put on him by the hawkish U.S. military leaders of the time.

But go ahead and put him down, if it helps prop up the human trash bin that inhabits the White House today.

Dude I don’t know why you took that as putting him down.

Who me? C'mon man. It's me you're talking to. I would've thought you knew me better by now. The wording was totally innocent, right?

It was just a historical fact that he was ready and considered doing it. Kennedy has been judged rather saintly because of the bullet. Had he served out his term history may not have been so kind. He made bad calls and did stupid shit like all other presidents plus the fiasco of corrupting the vote would have been more in the front than it was.

He never got the chance to serve out his term so I guess we'll never know, right? He took on the war-mongering military heads and assumed the one posture that preserved the world as people knew it back then. Never said he was perfect, if you bothered to read the opening post. Listen.... I get it that you Trumpers will stop at nothing to build up your man at the expense of past Presidents, no matter what. But at least try to retain some sort of objectiveness while you're doing it.

Thread diverted as usual.

Beginning to think Fats was right, 9 posts into the thread.

I don’t know your reading it wrong. I’ve said nothing about trump just you putting Kennedy on a pedestal in your opening stanza. You are right though, Kennedy did want troops out of Vietnam although there is some debate about it. Remember that was one of the many conspiracy theories on why he was killed. It’s odd tits, when we have brought up Obama’s policies compared to trump you have often stated the comparing of presidents gets old and I have said it’s how presidents are judged, yet here we are. We got off track because facts you don’t like were brought up about Camelot and crew. Would he have been elected if his father didn’t collude to corrupt the vote in the first place.

Yeah bro. This is me putting JFK on a pedestal.

......I'm fully aware of the guy's faults as POTUS..........

JFK gets rightly criticized for things he did wrong, particularly during the early days of his presidency.



Also, care to reread the entire opening post and telling me again what the thread is about?

Yeah... all Presidencies can be shot holes through when looked at under the microscope.

But let's be real here. It's the mystique and the name that gets many people riled up more than anything else. It's the resentment reserved for those who are perceived to have gotten all the breaks in life and been fed with the silver spoon.

It tends to color everything completely the other way. Suddenly anything positive turns into a negative.

Jackie Kennedy once naively mentioned Camelot in an interview, and suddenly it became ready made cannon fodder for Kennedy haters.



Nothing mentioned here about how he righted the wrongs of the first part of his Presidency and made the decisions that prevented nuclear war back in '62.

No. Fuck... we can't have that. Let's concentrate on his rookie errors, and speculate about just how bad the nation would've been had he not been shot in '63.

[Fatboxingfan]

I slept with his wife too