Canelo’s short list

[Spicoli]

Stay at 175 and fight Beterbiev or Bivol. It's a real shame what The Ring has become. I remember the height when it was the only belt and rankings that HBO and ESPN would speak and announce on air. Good times.

[powerpuncher]

I completely understand that p4p is subjective. The problem is that there is obviously a point to where you would find someone who doesn’t have knowledge of the sport. For example, if I said that Andy Ruiz was #1 p4p and his whole team said the same thing, you would just assume it was all biased and wouldn’t take it seriously.

That was my point. Certain lists you can’t take seriously for one reason or another. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

[TIC]

I completely understand that p4p is subjective. The problem is that there is obviously a point to where you would find someone who doesn’t have knowledge of the sport. For example, if I said that Andy Ruiz was #1 p4p and his whole team said the same thing, you would just assume it was all biased and wouldn’t take it seriously.

That was my point. Certain lists you can’t take seriously for one reason or another. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

i fully understand that some lists can't be taken seriously. the point i was making is there are knowledgable people around boxing that consider canelo number one p4p. having andy ruiz at number one, i think we both would agree would be ridiculous, but a case can be made for canelo. from the second ggg fight he has been nothing but marvelous

[powerpuncher]

I completely understand that p4p is subjective. The problem is that there is obviously a point to where you would find someone who doesn’t have knowledge of the sport. For example, if I said that Andy Ruiz was #1 p4p and his whole team said the same thing, you would just assume it was all biased and wouldn’t take it seriously.

That was my point. Certain lists you can’t take seriously for one reason or another. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

i fully understand that some lists can't be taken seriously. the point i was making is there are knowledgable people around boxing that consider canelo number one p4p. having andy ruiz at number one, i think we both would agree would be ridiculous, but a case can be made for canelo. from the second ggg fight he has been nothing but marvelous

I’ve already made my point multiple times and you still aren’t getting it so I won’t state it again.

My biggest argument against Canelo though is that if GGG would have gotten both decisions (which majority of people had him winning both fights) would any list have him at #1? The answer is no. People can only put him at #1 because he got gifted a draw in the first fight and was fortunate to get the win in the second one. Weight rankings and mandatories are one thing since they are more official rankings. Since p4p is just opinion on who is the best, then I think we should throw out official scoring and base it off of what actually happens in the ring.

[TIC]

I completely understand that p4p is subjective. The problem is that there is obviously a point to where you would find someone who doesn’t have knowledge of the sport. For example, if I said that Andy Ruiz was #1 p4p and his whole team said the same thing, you would just assume it was all biased and wouldn’t take it seriously.

That was my point. Certain lists you can’t take seriously for one reason or another. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

i fully understand that some lists can't be taken seriously. the point i was making is there are knowledgable people around boxing that consider canelo number one p4p. having andy ruiz at number one, i think we both would agree would be ridiculous, but a case can be made for canelo. from the second ggg fight he has been nothing but marvelous

I’ve already made my point multiple times and you still aren’t getting it so I won’t state it again.

My biggest argument against Canelo though is that if GGG would have gotten both decisions (which majority of people had him winning both fights) would any list have him at #1? The answer is no. People can only put him at #1 because he got gifted a draw in the first fight and was fortunate to get the win in the second one. Weight rankings and mandatories are one thing since they are more official rankings. Since p4p is just opinion on who is the best, then I think we should throw out official scoring and base it off of what actually happens in the ring.

you are not getting my point, i answered your question with examples, just because you don't like the examples doesn't mean they don't exist or are less relevant than your opinion. i thought canelo won the second fight. i put him at number one because i had him beating ggg at his own game in the second fight, destroyed fielding who holds a win over ryder, clearly beat jacobs, and jumped two weight divisions to knockout a titleholder at lightheavyweight

[Master]

I completely understand that p4p is subjective. The problem is that there is obviously a point to where you would find someone who doesn’t have knowledge of the sport. For example, if I said that Andy Ruiz was #1 p4p and his whole team said the same thing, you would just assume it was all biased and wouldn’t take it seriously.

That was my point. Certain lists you can’t take seriously for one reason or another. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

i fully understand that some lists can't be taken seriously. the point i was making is there are knowledgable people around boxing that consider canelo number one p4p. having andy ruiz at number one, i think we both would agree would be ridiculous, but a case can be made for canelo. from the second ggg fight he has been nothing but marvelous

I’ve already made my point multiple times and you still aren’t getting it so I won’t state it again.

My biggest argument against Canelo though is that if GGG would have gotten both decisions (which majority of people had him winning both fights) would any list have him at #1? The answer is no. People can only put him at #1 because he got gifted a draw in the first fight and was fortunate to get the win in the second one. Weight rankings and mandatories are one thing since they are more official rankings. Since p4p is just opinion on who is the best, then I think we should throw out official scoring and base it off of what actually happens in the ring.

you are not getting my point, i answered your question with examples, just because you don't like the examples doesn't mean they don't exist or are less relevant than your opinion. i thought canelo won the second fight. i put him at number one because i had him beating ggg at his own game in the second fight, destroyed fielding who holds a win over ryder, clearly beat jacobs, and jumped two weight divisions to knockout a titleholder at lightheavyweight

That all looks good on paper 100 years from now they may consider Canelo a ATG who was misunderstood but we all know truth. Notice you did not mention the first triple G fight with Canelo so I take that you accept he lost that but got a draw?

A closer 2nd fight true but still lost in my eyes, You know the hand picked "destroying" of Rocky Fielding (who Callum Smith truly destroyed in 1 round) was very opportunistic and whilst stopping Kov was impressive that was another champion that was carefully selected too.

Normally jumping around weight's and beating champions is a mark of a pound for pound champion. It should be applauded but when you can clearly see that it is avoiding even better fights then you need to question Canelo's motives.

[Alpha]

Canelo's record has many elite opponents but he has received favorably judging at times, has the failed PED tests, 155 catchweights and rehydration clauses, waiting for fighters to slide, in my opinion much of his success has been manufactured. I think he is a very good fighter and seems to look better and better each outing but I wouldn't have him as my current P4P #1.

[TIC]

I completely understand that p4p is subjective. The problem is that there is obviously a point to where you would find someone who doesn’t have knowledge of the sport. For example, if I said that Andy Ruiz was #1 p4p and his whole team said the same thing, you would just assume it was all biased and wouldn’t take it seriously.

That was my point. Certain lists you can’t take seriously for one reason or another. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

i fully understand that some lists can't be taken seriously. the point i was making is there are knowledgable people around boxing that consider canelo number one p4p. having andy ruiz at number one, i think we both would agree would be ridiculous, but a case can be made for canelo. from the second ggg fight he has been nothing but marvelous

I’ve already made my point multiple times and you still aren’t getting it so I won’t state it again.

My biggest argument against Canelo though is that if GGG would have gotten both decisions (which majority of people had him winning both fights) would any list have him at #1? The answer is no. People can only put him at #1 because he got gifted a draw in the first fight and was fortunate to get the win in the second one. Weight rankings and mandatories are one thing since they are more official rankings. Since p4p is just opinion on who is the best, then I think we should throw out official scoring and base it off of what actually happens in the ring.

you are not getting my point, i answered your question with examples, just because you don't like the examples doesn't mean they don't exist or are less relevant than your opinion. i thought canelo won the second fight. i put him at number one because i had him beating ggg at his own game in the second fight, destroyed fielding who holds a win over ryder, clearly beat jacobs, and jumped two weight divisions to knockout a titleholder at lightheavyweight

That all looks good on paper 100 years from now they may consider Canelo a ATG who was misunderstood but we all know truth. Notice you did not mention the first triple G fight with Canelo so I take that you accept he lost that but got a draw?

A closer 2nd fight true but still lost in my eyes, You know the hand picked "destroying" of Rocky Fielding (who Callum Smith truly destroyed in 1 round) was very opportunistic and whilst stopping Kov was impressive that was another champion that was carefully selected too.

Normally jumping around weight's and beating champions is a mark of a pound for pound champion. It should be applauded but when you can clearly see that it is avoiding even better fights then you need to question Canelo's motives.

I thought canelo lost the first ggg fight. i had ggg rated very high after that fight. i said from the second ggg canelo he has been nothing but marvelous. i don't think a fighter needs to be undefeated to be top of the list. i thought he beat ggg in the second go round. he also defeated jacobs much clearer than both ggg and sergei d did. say whay you want about kovalev but i don't see any other middleweights eager to jump two divisions to face him even now. canelo is not a lightheavyweight, if you are going to criticize him for not facing the best lightheavyweights, then all the other supermiddleweights and middleweights should be held to the same standard. a case could be made for any of the top five guys to be number one and a few of them have struggled recently. p4p is only for fun