End of year awards 2019

[TIC]

did rey vargas and julio martinez get away with breaking the rules? we can go back and forth all day, but you can't accept the truth

Regurgitation. The first sign of someone who's lost the argument and is reduced to repeating the other side's phrases.

i'm just stating that other middles are not willing to do what canelo did, and even artur and bivol failed to fight kov. not every fighter has to clean out a division, loma is an example of a fighter moving up without doing so, if you are going to continue to hate on canelo, while not acknowledging the same acts other fighters are doing over and over let me know..... so I can cut-paste my responses

Ditto. Are you going to hold your breath till you turn blue also?

not it was a canelo who had to accept a catchweight and cut extra pounds. do you want fighters taking on the biggest challenges or not? there is no shame in losing to the best fighter at the time, if you have a problem with the judges score take it up with them

is it true or not that canelo fights away from his home country? are you another one that can't accept the truth? only a troll would argue against the truth

You know what I mean here. I'm not spelling it out for you like some child.

you keep stating that canelo's career has been a well-orchestrated, protected, sham from the very beginning, but keep failing to acknowledge the fights i mention. was the trout a well-orchestrated, protected, sham? was floyd? was lara? is ggg too old for anyone to fight now? what about jacobs? i guess no one should fight kov again either

i feel canelo has earned his way to the top and i stated that his record is one of the best currently around the weight. canelo turned pro at a young age. how many fights did wilder have before fighting a live body? i have already proved that canelo has fought fighters in their prime, and he hasn't always held a weight advantage, i have already said that power isn't everything in boxing, as floyd proved. every fighter has gimmes on their record, i have no interest in belts. you should take up your issues with the judges and commisions. if the wbc want to create belts that is up to them

i like what canelo has been doing since the trout fight, i don't agree with everything but he is making and providing some great fights. no one is forcing you to like canelo, but i like him as a boxer

You've already been slammed dunked every which way but continue to plow forward. Plow ahead.

You can like him as a boxer all you like, but his career has still been manufactured.

'Nough said.

you said most fighters can't get away with it, i provided two fighters among many who got off better than canelo, two guys you have never said peep about. your response was to avoid this truth

another truth is the current crop of top middles and artur and bivol did not choose to fight this so called weak deer kov and i provided loma as an example of a fighter who also hasn't cleaned out divisions, your response was to avoid this truth once again

it is also true that canelo fights outside his home country, again you chose to avoid the truth

you are playing the wrong sport as it is you that has been slammed by the truth

i'll just put it down to jealousy of the legend that canelo is becoming

[TitoFan]

Put it down however you like. I just hope you and your also hypnotized brethren snap out of it before the Pied Piper "flutes" you right off the cliff.

[Alpha]

Tito is a little harsh with the protected stuff and weak opponents that Alvarez has fought. Yea there are some cupcakes in there, but he has fought a good number of ranked fighters in or around there prime.

He gets credit from me for taking those fights like Trout who was unbeaten and highly rated when they fought, and he then went straight into the Mayweather fight. He arguably lost both those fights, so his record could easily have 2 losses at that point.

He was abysmal against Mayweather Jr, but he took on the best challenge possible. Another loss.

Angulo and Lara did come back to back, and after their fight I can give Alvarez a pass for taking Angulo first, but the Lara fight is another one that could easily be another loss.

Kirkland, Cotto, Khan, Smith and Chavez Jr, only Cotto is worth mentioning, and he is a decent name to have on Alvarez’ record, albeit a little overdone and long in the tooth.

He faced Golovkin twice but could have lost both fights, so his record after those fights could have 6 losses.

Fielding was a worthless fight and did nothing to enhance his record.

I think Jacobs was another excellent opponent and Alvarez defeated him clearer than both Golovkin and Derevyanchenko came close to doing.

Kovalev was on the wrong side of the slope and I am disappointed with the rehydration clause that was kept secret until last minute, so that dampens the victory for me, although I must admit had one of the other Light-Heavyweight Champs signed to fight Kovalev I probably would have been all for it, but we wouldn’t have had a rehydration clause hanging over a unification.

So, Alvarez has definitely fought good opposition and that’s where he gets all the credit from me, but without the favourable calls and advantages he could have already lost 6 times, and if some of those losses had occurred, he may not have been in the position he found himself in, where his team was able to call the shots, this may have lead to further loses, we’ll never know.

Any fighter that tests positive for PEDs always gets a black mark next to their name for me. But I can only really go on this fights or tests they failed. I think most top athletes are on some kind of gear these days and until there are consistent tests and punishments handed out things will never improve.

[powerpuncher]

Tito is a little harsh with the protected stuff and weak opponents that Alvarez has fought. Yea there are some cupcakes in there, but he has fought a good number of ranked fighters in or around there prime.

He gets credit from me for taking those fights like Trout who was unbeaten and highly rated when they fought, and he then went straight into the Mayweather fight. He arguably lost both those fights, so his record could easily have 2 losses at that point.

He was abysmal against Mayweather Jr, but he took on the best challenge possible. Another loss.

Angulo and Lara did come back to back, and after their fight I can give Alvarez a pass for taking Angulo first, but the Lara fight is another one that could easily be another loss.

Kirkland, Cotto, Khan, Smith and Chavez Jr, only Cotto is worth mentioning, and he is a decent name to have on Alvarez’ record, albeit a little overdone and long in the tooth.

He faced Golovkin twice but could have lost both fights, so his record after those fights could have 6 losses.

Fielding was a worthless fight and did nothing to enhance his record.

I think Jacobs was another excellent opponent and Alvarez defeated him clearer than both Golovkin and Derevyanchenko came close to doing.

Kovalev was on the wrong side of the slope and I am disappointed with the rehydration clause that was kept secret until last minute, so that dampens the victory for me, although I must admit had one of the other Light-Heavyweight Champs signed to fight Kovalev I probably would have been all for it, but we wouldn’t have had a rehydration clause hanging over a unification.

So, Alvarez has definitely fought good opposition and that’s where he gets all the credit from me, but without the favourable calls and advantages he could have already lost 6 times, and if some of those losses had occurred, he may not have been in the position he found himself in, where his team was able to call the shots, this may have lead to further loses, we’ll never know.

Any fighter that tests positive for PEDs always gets a black mark next to their name for me. But I can only really go on this fights or tests they failed. I think most top athletes are on some kind of gear these days and until there are consistent tests and punishments handed out things will never improve.

I agree. He does have good names on his record, but you need to know the background of some of those wins. I give him the most credit for the Jacobs win because it’s his one decisive win against a good opponent. Because of his fame, he has been forced to take certain fights, but they are always on his time and his terms.

[TitoFan]

Tito is a little harsh with the protected stuff and weak opponents that Alvarez has fought. Yea there are some cupcakes in there, but he has fought a good number of ranked fighters in or around there prime.

He gets credit from me for taking those fights like Trout who was unbeaten and highly rated when they fought, and he then went straight into the Mayweather fight. He arguably lost both those fights, so his record could easily have 2 losses at that point.

He was abysmal against Mayweather Jr, but he took on the best challenge possible. Another loss.

Angulo and Lara did come back to back, and after their fight I can give Alvarez a pass for taking Angulo first, but the Lara fight is another one that could easily be another loss.

Kirkland, Cotto, Khan, Smith and Chavez Jr, only Cotto is worth mentioning, and he is a decent name to have on Alvarez’ record, albeit a little overdone and long in the tooth.

He faced Golovkin twice but could have lost both fights, so his record after those fights could have 6 losses.

Fielding was a worthless fight and did nothing to enhance his record.

I think Jacobs was another excellent opponent and Alvarez defeated him clearer than both Golovkin and Derevyanchenko came close to doing.

Kovalev was on the wrong side of the slope and I am disappointed with the rehydration clause that was kept secret until last minute, so that dampens the victory for me, although I must admit had one of the other Light-Heavyweight Champs signed to fight Kovalev I probably would have been all for it, but we wouldn’t have had a rehydration clause hanging over a unification.

So, Alvarez has definitely fought good opposition and that’s where he gets all the credit from me, but without the favourable calls and advantages he could have already lost 6 times, and if some of those losses had occurred, he may not have been in the position he found himself in, where his team was able to call the shots, this may have lead to further loses, we’ll never know.

Any fighter that tests positive for PEDs always gets a black mark next to their name for me. But I can only really go on this fights or tests they failed. I think most top athletes are on some kind of gear these days and until there are consistent tests and punishments handed out things will never improve.

I agree. He does have good names on his record, but you need to know the background of some of those wins. I give him the most credit for the Jacobs win because it’s his one decisive win against a good opponent. Because of his fame, he has been forced to take certain fights, but they are always on his time and his terms.

I give him credit for some fights also. But it's the whole package when you view it as a whole, combined with the way this package is swallowed by some, including many casuals. If you take the fights individually, sure.... there's little to criticize about an opponent like Trout at the time. Jacobs is another example. But other than that, he's been a wildly successful boxing marketing experiment.... with everything around him conspiring in his favor.

The start of his career cannot be denied. It was manufactured and even fellow countryman JCC Sr. had quite a bit of criticism about that. Unlike other fighters, who plow ahead undefeated records be damned (and get no favors from anybody)..... Canelo's greatness was preordained from the very beginning.

It's THIS dog and pony show that I object to.

Sometimes it's not so much the fighter, as it is everything else around him. What it does is magnify any criticism I may have of Canelo himself.

Human nature.

[TitoFan]

Difference between me and others is... some choose to look only at individual fights. See? He fought so-and-so. See? He fought this other so-and-so. Me? I look at the entire career. It's not just Canelo and it's not just boxing. I would have the same abhorrence toward ANY "manufactured" career built from picking and choosing and carefully primping up an image for the sake of image's sake. Whether that means bending/breaking the rules.... buying judges.... playing ridiculous games with weight.....and blatantly avoiding certain fighters. But most of all...... taking NO risk.

I may not be in the majority, but I'm sure I'm not alone on that "island."

[TIC]

Tito is a little harsh with the protected stuff and weak opponents that Alvarez has fought. Yea there are some cupcakes in there, but he has fought a good number of ranked fighters in or around there prime.

He gets credit from me for taking those fights like Trout who was unbeaten and highly rated when they fought, and he then went straight into the Mayweather fight. He arguably lost both those fights, so his record could easily have 2 losses at that point.

He was abysmal against Mayweather Jr, but he took on the best challenge possible. Another loss.

Angulo and Lara did come back to back, and after their fight I can give Alvarez a pass for taking Angulo first, but the Lara fight is another one that could easily be another loss.

Kirkland, Cotto, Khan, Smith and Chavez Jr, only Cotto is worth mentioning, and he is a decent name to have on Alvarez’ record, albeit a little overdone and long in the tooth.

He faced Golovkin twice but could have lost both fights, so his record after those fights could have 6 losses.

Fielding was a worthless fight and did nothing to enhance his record.

I think Jacobs was another excellent opponent and Alvarez defeated him clearer than both Golovkin and Derevyanchenko came close to doing.

Kovalev was on the wrong side of the slope and I am disappointed with the rehydration clause that was kept secret until last minute, so that dampens the victory for me, although I must admit had one of the other Light-Heavyweight Champs signed to fight Kovalev I probably would have been all for it, but we wouldn’t have had a rehydration clause hanging over a unification.

So, Alvarez has definitely fought good opposition and that’s where he gets all the credit from me, but without the favourable calls and advantages he could have already lost 6 times, and if some of those losses had occurred, he may not have been in the position he found himself in, where his team was able to call the shots, this may have lead to further loses, we’ll never know.

Any fighter that tests positive for PEDs always gets a black mark next to their name for me. But I can only really go on this fights or tests they failed. I think most top athletes are on some kind of gear these days and until there are consistent tests and punishments handed out things will never improve.

I agree. He does have good names on his record, but you need to know the background of some of those wins. I give him the most credit for the Jacobs win because it’s his one decisive win against a good opponent. Because of his fame, he has been forced to take certain fights, but they are always on his time and his terms.

I give him credit for some fights also. But it's the whole package when you view it as a whole, combined with the way this package is swallowed by some, including many casuals. If you take the fights individually, sure.... there's little to criticize about an opponent like Trout at the time. Jacobs is another example. But other than that, he's been a wildly successful boxing marketing experiment.... with everything around him conspiring in his favor.

The start of his career cannot be denied. It was manufactured and even fellow countryman JCC Sr. had quite a bit of criticism about that. Unlike other fighters, who plow ahead undefeated records be damned (and get no favors from anybody)..... Canelo's greatness was preordained from the very beginning.

It's THIS dog and pony show that I object to.

Sometimes it's not so much the fighter, as it is everything else around him. What it does is magnify any criticism I may have of Canelo himself.

Human nature.

other than trout and jacobs? what about floyd? i guess taking on the best in the sport is not enough of a risk for you. lara? what about ggg? when was he too old? the first or second fight? sergiy d shouldn't have fought such a shot fighter. and artur, bivol or gvozdyk probably didn't want to fight a shot kov to unify

canelo turned pro young, so many of his eary fights were development. not many modern careers can be like loma or usyk. i agree that a fighter fast tracked is very impressive, but some get derailed. some of canelo's fights could have gone either way, i thought he lost the first ggg fight, but he is fighting these top fighters. this is not ballroom dancing. a fighter risks his life everytime he steps in the ring. and there is no dening that canelo has one of the best current records for fighting highly rated fighters around the weight. i have stated that i understand some of your frustrations and also agree with some. but i really enjoy most what canelo is doing

Difference between me and others is... some choose to look only at individual fights. See? He fought so-and-so. See? He fought this other so-and-so. Me? I look at the entire career. It's not just Canelo and it's not just boxing. I would have the same abhorrence toward ANY "manufactured" career built from picking and choosing and carefully primping up an image for the sake of image's sake. Whether that means bending/breaking the rules.... buying judges.... playing ridiculous games with weight.....and blatantly avoiding certain fighters. But most of all...... taking NO risk.

I may not be in the majority, but I'm sure I'm not alone on that "island."

look at a guy like mikey garcia, he had almost thirty fights before fighting orlando, nobody of any real note. no one really focuses on wht he did early in his career, mainly on what he has been doing since stepping up his competition. how many fights did it take wilder to fight a live body? all modern fighters pick and choose. and many bend and break the rules. bad decisions are a part of boxing. catchweights have been common through boxings history, cotto had a few and was quoted saying "If the guy doesn't want to go (to the catchweight), they can feel free to look in other directions (for opponents)." we can pick apart every fighter and find fighters that they are claimed to have avoided. canelo has taken risks uch as trout, floyd, lara, ggg, jacobs and he fought kov at lightheavyweight before artur, bivol or gvozdyk