Alex Jones material finding its way on YouTube again. lol

[El Kabong]

Look... I don't get the bank or the PayPal thing, unless I'm missing something in the translation. But let's talk about YouTube, Twitter, etc.

Would it be ok if he got on YouTube and clearly incited violence against a certain group? Would that fall under freedom of speech and that's all there is to that? It's one thing saying something in the street or at a corner bar where your audience is limited, and the worse thing that could happen is someone doesn't like what you're saying and beats the crap out of you. It's quite another to take advantage of two new developments of the 21st century.... social media, and gullible, itchy trigger finger bastards.

Why the dogged insistence of using the easy, go-to, blanket protection of something like freedom of speech to defend and (wink wink) turn your head on people who are determined to stoke the flames of hatred, mistrust, and division among the easily persuaded? Aren't we capable as a society to discern between what is truly meant by freedom of speech and what shouldn't be allowed? Is that too complicated a task? It's pretty obvious that many people nowadays are weak-minded, and represent easy prey for those with a powerful platform and a big mouth. It's too simplistic to brush that off with constitutional amendments which, again... were meant for the good of man, and under those times and circumstances. Not meant to be used as a crutch by opportunistic hate-mongers.

YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook may be social platforms. But they have to answer to regulatory authorities whose task is either necessary and good, or overreaching and evil.... depending on what your beliefs are.

Banks have closed accounts of various people and said "We're not doing business with you", it's happened to MULTIPLE people ditto with PayPal, ditto with some other online pay services. If someone makes money via a platform and has a Patreon or Discord or whatever and then people aren't able to purchase wears or contribute to speech they agree with/support then that's not "the free market at work" it's censorship.

People HAVE gotten on YouTube and clearly incited violence and so long as it fits a certain ideology it's ok. Alex Jones HASN'T called for violence, at one point in time he believed in something that was wrong, he said some things which he regrets and has had to pay for. Is there no redemption anymore? If redemption is not available to those who are shut out from "polite society" I've got to tell you I don't believe that to be a good thing and I don't believe that ends well. I vehemently disagree about technology making this different, the printing press was used as a weapon by our Founding Fathers in the Revolutionary War.


At the end of the day when it comes to Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, they and the government need to finalize whether those services are "Publishers" or "Platforms". If they're "publishers", fine kick people off as the publishers are liable for what they allow....if they're platforms then much like the phone company can't cut your service because of a phone conversation you've had they're stuck with who uses their platform.


I'm just going to err on the side of liberty which will mean I have to maintain a certain level of faith in humanity to conduct themselves with a certain degree of decorum and I have to be ok with it if they don't.

[TitoFan]

Look... I don't get the bank or the PayPal thing, unless I'm missing something in the translation. But let's talk about YouTube, Twitter, etc.

Would it be ok if he got on YouTube and clearly incited violence against a certain group? Would that fall under freedom of speech and that's all there is to that? It's one thing saying something in the street or at a corner bar where your audience is limited, and the worse thing that could happen is someone doesn't like what you're saying and beats the crap out of you. It's quite another to take advantage of two new developments of the 21st century.... social media, and gullible, itchy trigger finger bastards.

Why the dogged insistence of using the easy, go-to, blanket protection of something like freedom of speech to defend and (wink wink) turn your head on people who are determined to stoke the flames of hatred, mistrust, and division among the easily persuaded? Aren't we capable as a society to discern between what is truly meant by freedom of speech and what shouldn't be allowed? Is that too complicated a task? It's pretty obvious that many people nowadays are weak-minded, and represent easy prey for those with a powerful platform and a big mouth. It's too simplistic to brush that off with constitutional amendments which, again... were meant for the good of man, and under those times and circumstances. Not meant to be used as a crutch by opportunistic hate-mongers.

YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook may be social platforms. But they have to answer to regulatory authorities whose task is either necessary and good, or overreaching and evil.... depending on what your beliefs are.

Banks have closed accounts of various people and said "We're not doing business with you", it's happened to MULTIPLE people ditto with PayPal, ditto with some other online pay services. If someone makes money via a platform and has a Patreon or Discord or whatever and then people aren't able to purchase wears or contribute to speech they agree with/support then that's not "the free market at work" it's censorship.

People HAVE gotten on YouTube and clearly incited violence and so long as it fits a certain ideology it's ok. Alex Jones HASN'T called for violence, at one point in time he believed in something that was wrong, he said some things which he regrets and has had to pay for. Is there no redemption anymore? If redemption is not available to those who are shut out from "polite society" I've got to tell you I don't believe that to be a good thing and I don't believe that ends well. I vehemently disagree about technology making this different, the printing press was used as a weapon by our Founding Fathers in the Revolutionary War.


At the end of the day when it comes to Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, they and the government need to finalize whether those services are "Publishers" or "Platforms". If they're "publishers", fine kick people off as the publishers are liable for what they allow....if they're platforms then much like the phone company can't cut your service because of a phone conversation you've had they're stuck with who uses their platform.


I'm just going to err on the side of liberty which will mean I have to maintain a certain level of faith in humanity to conduct themselves with a certain degree of decorum and I have to be ok with it if they don't.

I think liberty, as with other ideological topics, gets abused, distorted, and misused. But you're clear in your opinion. You're going to "maintain a certain level of faith in humanity..."

Unfortunately, it has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt again and again and again, that this "faith" is misplaced with many people and many groups of people. It's not even about conducting themselves "with a certain degree of decorum." It's about behaving with the elemental aspects of decency. No one should need a college course to know what these are. Again... it's all too easy to shrug off horrific, dehumanizing behavior and throw it into the "freedom of expression" bin. It's lazy... and it's convenient. It's also a sort of "get out of jail free card", in case any one of us should incur in that type of behavior. But again... this is my opinion.

It's puzzling to me how we can focus on a crackpot's removal from Facebook, YouTube, whatever... and concentrate on how that individual's rights were violated... while thinking nothing of the damage he/she's doing to society NEEDLESSLY. Hey... if you've got an ax to grind and you're taking it out on Facebook, it's still not right. But what did anyone connected to Sandy Hook ever do to Alex Jones that would bring on that barrage of hurtful and damaging falsehoods? When shit like this happens, the least I'm caring about is how poor old Jones is being banned from Twitter. In fact, it makes me wonder how slimeballs like this ever get the audience they do.

You insist on this agenda where it's ok for others to "incite violence so long as it fits a certain ideology." Sorry... I'm not convinced, nor do I believe it's that clear-cut. But again... we'll never agree. I'm sure you'll dredge up obscure, little-known examples of someone CLEARLY inciting violence on YouTube and getting away with it, because they are either anti-Trumpers, or belong to some group you don't agree with. But see... here's the thing. I don't work that way. I judge what I see and hear. And I've seen and heard enough of Alex Jones to come to my own personal conclusion that the guy's a douche bag, and should not be given a platform for public expression, because the guy causes a lot of harm to society. I don't go looking for counter examples to compare him with, because I'm just judging Alex Jones.

[Gandalf]

Tito you will come to your own conclusions but the reason they use the freedom of speech thing is that racist bullshit is rampant here and always has been. We have forum members including mods demanding the right to be racist as though it were a freedom they want to go unchallenged.

We have posters who question whether racism even exists, posters who quote the bell curve and quite clearly believe in Eugenics, posters who belong to segregated fraternal orders that were founded on the ignorant mocking of Arabs and Islam, posters who think white power and white supremacy are nothing to be worried about, posters who deny the holocaust, posters who for years were indulged as they repeated antisemitic tropes and a general attitude to immigration and non white culture that makes it quite clear how backwards, ignorant and bigoted many of them are.

People are backwards for not thinking like you? Ever considered the possibility that you might have it wrong? I see you question The Bell Curve. Do you mean the book? Is it all of the book you disagree with or are there specific chapters you would care to discuss?

[Beanz]

Tito you will come to your own conclusions but the reason they use the freedom of speech thing is that racist bullshit is rampant here and always has been. We have forum members including mods demanding the right to be racist as though it were a freedom they want to go unchallenged.

We have posters who question whether racism even exists, posters who quote the bell curve and quite clearly believe in Eugenics, posters who belong to segregated fraternal orders that were founded on the ignorant mocking of Arabs and Islam, posters who think white power and white supremacy are nothing to be worried about, posters who deny the holocaust, posters who for years were indulged as they repeated antisemitic tropes and a general attitude to immigration and non white culture that makes it quite clear how backwards, ignorant and bigoted many of them are.

People are backwards for not thinking like you? Ever considered the possibility that you might have it wrong? I see you question The Bell Curve. Do you mean the book? Is it all of the book you disagree with or are there specific chapters you would care to discuss?

No people are backwards who do not think for themselves. If you think you can hide your bigotry behind data, statistics and other peoples opinions you are literally going backwards as the rest of the world moves on.

I know you would rather draw me into a tedious fucking debate based on your own desire to virtue signal your own anti-wokeness but there are not enough bells in Christendom to wake you up.

[Gandalf]

Tito you will come to your own conclusions but the reason they use the freedom of speech thing is that racist bullshit is rampant here and always has been. We have forum members including mods demanding the right to be racist as though it were a freedom they want to go unchallenged.

We have posters who question whether racism even exists, posters who quote the bell curve and quite clearly believe in Eugenics, posters who belong to segregated fraternal orders that were founded on the ignorant mocking of Arabs and Islam, posters who think white power and white supremacy are nothing to be worried about, posters who deny the holocaust, posters who for years were indulged as they repeated antisemitic tropes and a general attitude to immigration and non white culture that makes it quite clear how backwards, ignorant and bigoted many of them are.

People are backwards for not thinking like you? Ever considered the possibility that you might have it wrong? I see you question The Bell Curve. Do you mean the book? Is it all of the book you disagree with or are there specific chapters you would care to discuss?

No people are backwards who do not think for themselves. If you think you can hide your bigotry behind data, statistics and other peoples opinions you are literally going backwards as the rest of the world moves on.

I know you would rather draw me into a tedious fucking debate based on your own desire to virtue signal your own anti-wokeness but there are not enough bells in Christendom to wake you up.

It is a book I have read and seen misinterpreted a lot. If you have an issue with it, I would be curious to know which chapters you question. That is all. I mean Sowell has read it and does not agree with everything, but has respect for the level of research put into it. Not just a flippant Beanz style dismissal.

You typically find people who have issues with it have typically not read the book. It is a heavy data laden book at about 1000 pages long. It takes some time to navigate, especially some of the statistical analysis.

Surely, you are not dismissing the entire premise of the book? You did just say Bell Curve. Maybe you strangely do not think they exist either in a general form. Perhaps be more precise with your language and your objections.

Guide me towards a chapter. All ears.

[Gandalf]

The Bell Curve part was obviously a call out to me, but so much wrong with that post. Just to pick an example: "posters who think white power and white supremacy are nothing to be worried about".

Well, is this something to be worried about? The UK where there have been successful non white business people and politicians for over a hundred years, the nation that forced other nations to give up slavery, the nation that continues to have non whites in government, and who do well in society. Is X, for example, hiding behind his sofa worrying about the rise of the new Hitler? Or is he rather a smart chap who does well in a country more tolerant than most others.

Come out here Beanz and I will show you a place with no whites in government and no blacks too. Go to India and try and buy a property and contrast that with the nation that allowed Master's family to come in and build a life. Night and day. Britain has a race problem as compared with where exactly?


It is kind of ordinary for a country with a majority white population to have a majority of white people in positions of influence. Same in India with Indians and in Japan with the Japanese etc.

[Master]

Someone is deliberately forgetting their history and the damaging impact of colonialism and slavery.

[Gandalf]

Someone is deliberately forgetting their history and the damaging impact of colonialism and slavery.

Who paid black run countries to abolish the slave trade? It was Britain leading that charge. Britain had Indian origin Members of Parliament in the 1890's. Where are the white UK origin politicians and property owners in India today? You cannot even buy property there as a foreigner.

Britain is a far fairer and far less racist country than India and you know it. More than generous when a racist nation simply would not have been so.

'Oh but what about the Empire' is no reason to claim Indians deserve a home in the UK wihout genuine ties there. It is far from reciprocal.

[Master]

Someone is deliberately forgetting their history and the damaging impact of colonialism and slavery.

Who paid black run countries to abolish the slave trade? It was Britain leading that charge. Britain had Indian origin Members of Parliament in the 1890's. Where are the white UK origin politicians and property owners in India today? You cannot even buy property there as a foreigner.

Britain is a far fairer and far less racist country than India and you know it. More than generous when a racist nation simply would not have been so.

'Oh but what about the Empire' is no reason to claim Indians deserve a home in the UK wihout genuine ties there. It is far from reciprocal.

The compensation the slave owners received was paid back only recently. Britain became rich and powered the industrial revolution from colonialism and you want a thank you for them stopping it? Delusional.

[NoSavingByTheBell]

I will never deny the UK/US's roles in global empire/exploitation/colonialism and its lasting effects on indigenous populations. I have not lived in the UK, so I cant really comment on any racism there, but here in America there undoubtedly is racism as we have hundreds of different ethnicities here in vast numbers crammed in close together in neighborhoods, but since the 1980s there have hardly been any instances of people not getting a job or being denied entrance into schools based on race; on the contrary the affirmative action programs have largely evened all that out over the past 40 years or so, and you will find all races in all positions basically, except for obviously President (tho soon I think Kamala will be President). And when it DOES happen, the guilty parties are sued to the tune of millions of dollars for violating civil rights of individuals and blacklisted all over the media.

In Malaysia or Guyana, the racism between the Chinese, the Tamil Indians, and the ethnic Malays is so thick --even with politicians openly making anti-INdian or anti-Chinese comments and daily stories in the newspapers that would appall you -- you can cut it with a knife. Compared to that I think the UK and US are far less racist nowadays.

[Beanz]

Someone is deliberately forgetting their history and the damaging impact of colonialism and slavery.

Who paid black run countries to abolish the slave trade? It was Britain leading that charge. Britain had Indian origin Members of Parliament in the 1890's. Where are the white UK origin politicians and property owners in India today? You cannot even buy property there as a foreigner.

Britain is a far fairer and far less racist country than India and you know it. More than generous when a racist nation simply would not have been so.

'Oh but what about the Empire' is no reason to claim Indians deserve a home in the UK wihout genuine ties there. It is far from reciprocal.

Think for yourself.

You sound like Farrage who has just claimed that 'Nobody in history has done more for people of colour than the Royal Family'

He like you said that with a straight face, believing every fucking stupid word of it.

You are so desperate to virtue signal your supposed, Devil's Advocate special rare as Unicorns unique brand of colonial white man bullshit, it is painful to witness you engage in such a humiliating charade.

For a long time i thought 'He can't actually really believe it', but you do


Britain compensated fucking slave owners...OWNERS, half of them are in the house of lords or printing the papers that tell YOU what to think. You repeat them verbatim.

Do yourself a massive favour and instead of filling your head with psuedo scientific American garbage, read David Olusoga's Masterful 'Black and British - A forgotten history' and learn a bit more about the country you don't really seem to understand and certainly never celebrate.

[Gandalf]

Look who is astride the horse fighting on behalf of Sancho. What does this have to do with Mouthy Minnie?

Yes, money was given to rulers of regions and nations to stop them doing what they were doing. It wasn't all drone strikes with the British. It was the correct thing to do at the time.

I understand my history, Beanz and colonialism was a side point brought up by Master to distract from my main point that Britain is far more generous than most countries in the world. Yet all you idiots can do is waffle on about the dangers of white supremacy. It is dumb.

[Beanz]

Look who is astride the horse fighting on behalf of Sancho. What does this have to do with Mouthy Minnie?

Yes, money was given to rulers of regions and nations to stop them doing what they were doing. It wasn't all drone strikes with the British. It was the correct thing to do at the time.

I understand my history, Beanz and colonialism was a side point brought up by Master to distract from my main point that Britain is far more generous than most countries in the world. Yet all you idiots can do is waffle on about the dangers of white supremacy. It is dumb.

Colonialism and it's bastard children racism and bigotry are a side point for YOU. That is the crux of the problem. Your blindess, your ignorance, your lies, your propaganda, your lack of empathy, your belligerence, your revisionism. It stinks and that stench precedes you.

[Gandalf]

The reality is few countries on this planet have been as generous to outsiders with little than the UK. If not, then as compared with where? India is certainly not generous. I can list many more examples.

Am I entitled to a job in France because of the Normans? Such a naive way of thinking. Are Koreans entitled to live in Japan? Why? Oh, because of colonialism! It is poor logic.

You rebuild and move on. You have no need to fracture your own society those of whom who were mostly just toiling day to day themselves. That is their society.

The left is insidious really.

[Gandalf]

Look who is astride the horse fighting on behalf of Sancho. What does this have to do with Mouthy Minnie?

Yes, money was given to rulers of regions and nations to stop them doing what they were doing. It wasn't all drone strikes with the British. It was the correct thing to do at the time.

I understand my history, Beanz and colonialism was a side point brought up by Master to distract from my main point that Britain is far more generous than most countries in the world. Yet all you idiots can do is waffle on about the dangers of white supremacy. It is dumb.

Colonialism and it's bastard children racism and bigotry are a side point for YOU. That is the crux of the problem. Your blindess, your ignorance, your lies, your propaganda, your lack of empathy, your belligerence, your revisionism. It stinks and that stench precedes you.

Lots of insults, but little reasoning. Try again.