Canelo Alvarez vs Gennady Golovkin III 17/9/22

[NoSavingByTheBell]

whats the argument being made, that Canelo is (or isnt?) a bona fide middleweight? Honestly trying to follow it here.

[TIC]

whats the argument being made, that Canelo is (or isnt?) a bona fide middleweight? Honestly trying to follow it here.

titofan made incorrect statements & he is unable to admit he is wrong titofan made the claim, the fact is ggg has fought at one sixty for his entire career. one sixty three is not middleweight. he also made the claim, that it is a given that canelo doesn't lose decisions in vegas. canelo lost his last fight by decision in vegas, so clearly not a given. titofan can't bring himself to be humble & admit he is wrong. there is nothing wrong with being wrong, there is something wrong when he can't admit it

[TitoFan]

whats the argument being made, that Canelo is (or isnt?) a bona fide middleweight? Honestly trying to follow it here.

Honest question. I'll answer it as best I can.

The real point of the argument is that I claim GGG has a distinct disadvantage against Ginger because he's never been a bonafide super middle.

TIC argues that GGG has no such disadvantage, because GGG has fought at super middle.

I counter that having fought ONE fight at 163 hardly makes him a bonafide super middle... and thus the disadvantage argument holds.

TIC latches onto my having said that GGG has never fought at super middle as a mistake (pretty much like a dog with a bone)... and uses that technicality to try and build his argument that GGG is a legitimate super middle and thus a threat to Ginger. (Perfect example of Flawed Reasoning).

In reality, TIC is now more focused on my mistake, rather than the real point of the argument which is what I mentioned earlier.

It explains why none of the veterans here like to argue anything with TIC.

[TitoFan]

And I'll reiterate my points as to why GGG is a walk in the park for Ginger, and why Ginger gets no credit from me for beating GGG this time around.

1. GGG is not a bonafide super middle. He fought exactly ONE fight at 163, which demostrates he's not comfortable at 168. Meanwhile, Ginger has TWICE fought at 175, and is perfectly suited to fight at 168, his true weight. It's a size mismatch.
2. GGG is 40 years old. Clear to everyone except deluded casual fans as being significantly beyond one's peak, especially at weights lower than heavyweight.
3. Ginger has lost exactly TWO decisions in Vegas. (This time I said it right, lest TIC latch onto a keyboard mistake to further his argument). One was against Floyd, who gave him a shutout and still managed to get only a majority decision, thanks to one of Ginger's judges. The other was Bivol, who gave Ginger a comprehensive boxing lesson and the judges still managed to score it closer than it should have been.
4. GGG was already robbed against Ginger. To expect to win a decision with Ginger's judges firmly in tow, is being pretty unrealistic. GGG's only chance is by KO, and Ginger's chin is already a proven commodity.

You're welcome.

[TitoFan]

I'd like to get back to the topic at hand... the actual fight.

And I'll reiterate my points as to why GGG is a walk in the park for Ginger, and why Ginger gets no credit from me for beating GGG this time around.

1. GGG is not a bonafide super middle. He fought exactly ONE fight at 163, which demostrates he's not comfortable at 168. Meanwhile, Ginger has TWICE fought at 175, and is perfectly suited to fight at 168, his true weight. It's a size mismatch.
2. GGG is 40 years old. Clear to everyone except deluded casual fans as being significantly beyond one's peak, especially at weights lower than heavyweight.
3. Ginger has lost exactly TWO decisions in Vegas. (This time I said it right, lest TIC latch onto a keyboard mistake to further his argument). One was against Floyd, who gave him a shutout and still managed to get only a majority decision, thanks to one of Ginger's judges. The other was Bivol, who gave Ginger a comprehensive boxing lesson and the judges still managed to score it closer than it should have been.
4. GGG was already robbed against Ginger. To expect to win a decision with Ginger's judges firmly in tow, is being pretty unrealistic. GGG's only chance is by KO, and Ginger's chin is already a proven commodity.

You're welcome.

For the reasons above, I believe GGG has two chances against Ginger... SLIM and NONE.

It'll be a knockout win for Ginger... and he gets zero credit from me. After GGG he needs to get back to fighting young guys his own size.

[TIC]

I'd like to get back to the topic at hand... the actual fight.

And I'll reiterate my points as to why GGG is a walk in the park for Ginger, and why Ginger gets no credit from me for beating GGG this time around.

1. GGG is not a bonafide super middle. He fought exactly ONE fight at 163, which demostrates he's not comfortable at 168. Meanwhile, Ginger has TWICE fought at 175, and is perfectly suited to fight at 168, his true weight. It's a size mismatch.
2. GGG is 40 years old. Clear to everyone except deluded casual fans as being significantly beyond one's peak, especially at weights lower than heavyweight.
3. Ginger has lost exactly TWO decisions in Vegas. (This time I said it right, lest TIC latch onto a keyboard mistake to further his argument). One was against Floyd, who gave him a shutout and still managed to get only a majority decision, thanks to one of Ginger's judges. The other was Bivol, who gave Ginger a comprehensive boxing lesson and the judges still managed to score it closer than it should have been.
4. GGG was already robbed against Ginger. To expect to win a decision with Ginger's judges firmly in tow, is being pretty unrealistic. GGG's only chance is by KO, and Ginger's chin is already a proven commodity.

You're welcome.

For the reasons above, I believe GGG has two chances against Ginger... SLIM and NONE.

It'll be a knockout win for Ginger... and he gets zero credit from me. After GGG he needs to get back to fighting young guys his own size.

ggg is not a bonafide super middleweight. ggg has fought once at super middleweight. where is your proof that ggg is not comfortable at one sixty eight? i remember ggg being interested in fights with julio cesar chavez jr & carl froch at one sixty eight but they never came together. canelo has fought twice at light heavyweight. i agree canelo is probably better acclimatized to super middleweight, probably his true weight. i disagree it's a size mismatch. ggg is forty & i agree he is no longer in his prime. canelo has lost two decisions in vegas. i thought ggg won the first fight & canelo won the second. i don't think it's unrealistic to expect to win a decision against canelo. canelo lost a decision in his last fight. i disagree that ggg's only chance is by knockout. canelo's chin is already a proven commodity. i think this is a difficult fight for canelo. i am picking canelo to win by knockout but don't think it'll be easy. i'll give canelo credit for defeating a tough fighter & someone i think is a tough fight for anyone around the weight. after ggg i'll wait to see where canelo goes

[TIC]

whats the argument being made, that Canelo is (or isnt?) a bona fide middleweight? Honestly trying to follow it here.

Honest question. I'll answer it as best I can.

The real point of the argument is that I claim GGG has a distinct disadvantage against Ginger because he's never been a bonafide super middle.

TIC argues that GGG has no such disadvantage, because GGG has fought at super middle.

I counter that having fought ONE fight at 163 hardly makes him a bonafide super middle... and thus the disadvantage argument holds.

TIC latches onto my having said that GGG has never fought at super middle as a mistake (pretty much like a dog with a bone)... and uses that technicality to try and build his argument that GGG is a legitimate super middle and thus a threat to Ginger. (Perfect example of Flawed Reasoning).

In reality, TIC is now more focused on my mistake, rather than the real point of the argument which is what I mentioned earlier.

It explains why none of the veterans here like to argue anything with TIC.

the real point of the argument is that you think ggg is over the hill & i don't think ggg has slipped to that degree. i have already agree that canelo will probably have a size advantage come fight night. your claim, the fact is ggg has fought at one sixty for his entire career. is wrong. i have never said ggg is a legitimate super middleweight but i do believe ggg is a threat to canelo or anyone from one fifty four to one sixty eight fighting ggg at one sixty or one sixty eight

[TitoFan]

whats the argument being made, that Canelo is (or isnt?) a bona fide middleweight? Honestly trying to follow it here.

Honest question. I'll answer it as best I can.

The real point of the argument is that I claim GGG has a distinct disadvantage against Ginger because he's never been a bonafide super middle.

TIC argues that GGG has no such disadvantage, because GGG has fought at super middle.

I counter that having fought ONE fight at 163 hardly makes him a bonafide super middle... and thus the disadvantage argument holds.

TIC latches onto my having said that GGG has never fought at super middle as a mistake (pretty much like a dog with a bone)... and uses that technicality to try and build his argument that GGG is a legitimate super middle and thus a threat to Ginger. (Perfect example of Flawed Reasoning).

In reality, TIC is now more focused on my mistake, rather than the real point of the argument which is what I mentioned earlier.

It explains why none of the veterans here like to argue anything with TIC.

the real point of the argument is that you think ggg is over the hill & i don't think ggg has slipped to that degree. i have already agree that canelo will probably have a size advantage come fight night. your claim, the fact is ggg has fought at one sixty for his entire career. is wrong. i have never said ggg is a legitimate super middleweight but i do believe ggg is a threat to canelo or anyone from one fifty four to one sixty eight fighting ggg at one sixty or one sixty eight

(cut/paste)

And I'll reiterate my points as to why GGG is a walk in the park for Ginger, and why Ginger gets no credit from me for beating GGG this time around.

1. GGG is not a bonafide super middle. He fought exactly ONE fight at 163, which demostrates he's not comfortable at 168. Meanwhile, Ginger has TWICE fought at 175, and is perfectly suited to fight at 168, his true weight. It's a size mismatch.
2. GGG is 40 years old. Clear to everyone except deluded casual fans as being significantly beyond one's peak, especially at weights lower than heavyweight.
3. Ginger has lost exactly TWO decisions in Vegas. (This time I said it right, lest TIC latch onto a keyboard mistake to further his argument). One was against Floyd, who gave him a shutout and still managed to get only a majority decision, thanks to one of Ginger's judges. The other was Bivol, who gave Ginger a comprehensive boxing lesson and the judges still managed to score it closer than it should have been.
4. GGG was already robbed against Ginger. To expect to win a decision with Ginger's judges firmly in tow, is being pretty unrealistic. GGG's only chance is by KO, and Ginger's chin is already a proven commodity.

You're welcome.

[TitoFan]

But I can see where TIC has managed to make GGG seem like a threat to Ginger in this fight. The poll currently stands at 4-3 in favor of a GGG victory.

Now when Ginger KO's GGG it'll be seen as a grand achievement.

[TIC]

But I can see where TIC has managed to make GGG seem like a threat to Ginger in this fight. The poll currently stands at 4-3 in favor of a GGG victory.

Now when Ginger KO's GGG it'll be seen as a grand achievement.

you think i have that much control over other people? i have already said i will call a canelo victory very good win, i won't see it as a grand achievement

[NoSavingByTheBell]

Sheesh, this is getting complicated. Thanks for the breakdown of your points (the 4 points) Tito, and answering my question. I see what you're saying, and it looks as if the dispute is mostly about 163. And what it implies. From what I can see you two are actually in agreement on most of the points. Mainly that Canelo has proven his chin and that triple G is clearly not exactly, to put it gently, a young spring chicken.

I hope that triple G will get a knock out out of pure desperation and go out on his shield one way or the other, not just because of the judges, which is a significant factor in Cinnamon Town, but because I think he will be fighting for his legacy here and just may put on a career ending performance that startles everyone. It's just probably wishful thinking to be honest. It would be an incredible performance if he could do it, and the odds are not in his favor.

[TIC]

whats the argument being made, that Canelo is (or isnt?) a bona fide middleweight? Honestly trying to follow it here.

Honest question. I'll answer it as best I can.

The real point of the argument is that I claim GGG has a distinct disadvantage against Ginger because he's never been a bonafide super middle.

TIC argues that GGG has no such disadvantage, because GGG has fought at super middle.

I counter that having fought ONE fight at 163 hardly makes him a bonafide super middle... and thus the disadvantage argument holds.

TIC latches onto my having said that GGG has never fought at super middle as a mistake (pretty much like a dog with a bone)... and uses that technicality to try and build his argument that GGG is a legitimate super middle and thus a threat to Ginger. (Perfect example of Flawed Reasoning).

In reality, TIC is now more focused on my mistake, rather than the real point of the argument which is what I mentioned earlier.

It explains why none of the veterans here like to argue anything with TIC.

the real point of the argument is that you think ggg is over the hill & i don't think ggg has slipped to that degree. i have already agree that canelo will probably have a size advantage come fight night. your claim, the fact is ggg has fought at one sixty for his entire career. is wrong. i have never said ggg is a legitimate super middleweight but i do believe ggg is a threat to canelo or anyone from one fifty four to one sixty eight fighting ggg at one sixty or one sixty eight

(cut/paste)

And I'll reiterate my points as to why GGG is a walk in the park for Ginger, and why Ginger gets no credit from me for beating GGG this time around.

1. GGG is not a bonafide super middle. He fought exactly ONE fight at 163, which demostrates he's not comfortable at 168. Meanwhile, Ginger has TWICE fought at 175, and is perfectly suited to fight at 168, his true weight. It's a size mismatch.
2. GGG is 40 years old. Clear to everyone except deluded casual fans as being significantly beyond one's peak, especially at weights lower than heavyweight.
3. Ginger has lost exactly TWO decisions in Vegas. (This time I said it right, lest TIC latch onto a keyboard mistake to further his argument). One was against Floyd, who gave him a shutout and still managed to get only a majority decision, thanks to one of Ginger's judges. The other was Bivol, who gave Ginger a comprehensive boxing lesson and the judges still managed to score it closer than it should have been.
4. GGG was already robbed against Ginger. To expect to win a decision with Ginger's judges firmly in tow, is being pretty unrealistic. GGG's only chance is by KO, and Ginger's chin is already a proven commodity.

You're welcome.

you believe ggg will be a walk in the park for canelo & you won't give canelo any credit if canelo beats ggg this time around. i have never said ggg is a bonafide super middle. i feel differently but we won't know until the fight is over. i feel you are making it out to be a walk in the park for canelo so that if canelo does struggle or lose then you can crow about canelo losing or struggling against a fighter you believed to be over the hill. i have never said ggg is a bonafide super middle & i don't think anyone else has either in this thread. that is an argument you have made up to attack. i just corrected your claim, the fact is ggg has fought at one sixty for his entire career. ggg only having fought at super middleweight one time only demonstrates he has only fought at super middleweight one time. where's your proof to back up that ggg is not comfortable at super middleweight? canelo has fought at twice at light heavyweight & is probably better acclimatized to super middleweight than ggg. if canelo makes the weight at the weigh in then the fight is a super middle, canelo will probably have a size advantage but i disagree that it is a size mis match. ggg is forty & i have already said he is not in his prime & has slipped but i wouldn't call ggg over the hill, he is still performing at a high level & is a difficult fight for anyone around the weight. canelo has lost two decisions in vegas. i thought ggg won the first fight but thought canelo one the second. i don't think it's unrealistic to expect to win a decision against canelo, dmitry just did it in canelo's last fight. i also disagree that ggg's only chance is by knockout. canelo's chin is already a proven commodity