Is Canelo on a serious slide?

[TitoFan]

so we agree canelo has had a very good career. there are many fighters through the sports history i think you'll agree that have benefited from having the right management, promoter, network et cetera. i agree most of canelo's early fights were padding but to add another perspective, canelo is said to have turned pro at fifteen without much of an amateur career, so he was not only young & developing, he was also learning on the job. take someone like xander zayas, he turned pro at seventeen & has fifteen fights so far, note he is not as active as some prospects are, if he started another two years earlier it is not impossible to think his record could be approaching thirty fights by now. i'm with you about some of these well established amateurs padding their records but i have to give a fifteen year old kid a bit of breathing room


bad judging has been a thing since as long as i can remember. is canelo to blame for a judges card? or does the blame fall on the wbc, the commission or canelo's promoter. i understand your frustration but really how much influence does canelo have here really? other parties involved have interests they are trying to protect. people think canelo played footsies with ggg but canelo fought ggg within a year of his last defense against liam smith at fifty four. at least canelo fought ggg, guys like felix sturm, sergio martinez & miguel cotto never did, canelo also fought ggg back to back, ggg was the favourite in the first fight, i can't find the odds for the second fight but i believe canelo was the underdog again. i agree the jccjr fight was just a cash grab but jr wanted that fight at one sixty eight, at one sixty four canelo was still moving up two divisions. i'm also disappointed with canelo's ped use but at least he got a slap on the wrist. guys like lamont peterson & erik morales along with others were allowed to fight after failing tests. what did floyd receive for his iv use before the manny pacquiao fight?


i don't hold anything against canelo for challenging himself against the best fighter in the world at the time. you might not think canelo earned it but the same could be said of many of floyd's opponents. what did coner do to earn a shot at floyd? what about andre berto? & i don't see anything wrong with a young fighter challenging themselves & coming up short against the number one pound for pound fighter. it's no wonder fighters don't want to take risks these days, if fans are going to ridicule them for taking a shot. the fight with floyd is also one of the biggest pay per views, so you can't blame those involved around canelo or even canelo for wanting to gain on their investment. canelo even accepted a catchweight to get the fight done. every fighter has some gimme fights on their record. rocky was sandwiched between the two ggg fights, where i believe canelo was the underdog & danny jacobs who many thought had beaten ggg. charles martin is glaring at you right now. he wants that title. i agree sergey was past his best but he was a title holder & was coming off wins over two undefeated fighters. it was also canelo's first fight at light heavy & canelo was moving up two divisions from his previous fight. i thought sergey won the first fight with andre & that andre should have been disqualified in the rematch, so i disagree that andre exposed sergey

Through all of this... it's been his fans who have contributed to the Canelo hate that many people in boxing have. They put Canelo on a pedestal from the very start, which immediately turned a bunch of us off. Casuals seem to have forgotten the TRUE Mexican warriors of the past, like Salvador Sanchez, JCC, MAB, Eric Morales, etc.

some fighters' fans can be extreme, manny's fans were the same, floyd fan boys, the list goes on. i have been guilty of shouting the legend grows a time or three. but the run of opponents he was on since the first ggg fight was very good & just imagine if he had beaten dmitry, he took his shot & lost to the better man. i didn't really become a canelo fan until he signed to fight austin. i don't think you are referring to me as i remember sal, julio, marco antonio & erik

I've even criticized the way JCC began his career... pretty much in the same fashion as Canelo... bulging his record to the 40's or 50's before ever seeing a credible opponent. But at least JCC later faced the best of his time, without thinking about diva clauses... without having judges bought in his pocket... without marinating fights. The way REAL champions do their shit.

i think we agree on record padding. i think canelo has faced some of the best of his time as well, there may have been some clauses but canelo has also been on the opposite side where he had to agree to clauses against floyd & miguel. unfortunately this a side b side nonsense has grown over time. ray leonard was able to stipulate twelve rounds against marvin. can you blame canelo for the judges? shouldn't the commissions, governing bodies, promoters or networks bare some responsibility? i think fghting ggg within a year of his last defense at one fifty four is pretty good, when other fighters never fought ggg at all. do you not consider holding all four major belts in your division a real champion?

I'm sure I've forgotten many other Canelo examples, but that's pretty much why I've always maintained that his career has been manufactured.

i agree that some things in canelo's career may have been manufactured but he is not alone. i'm not defending canelo, i just don't single him out for things that many other fighters are also guilty of

This is actually the first time you and I have argued civilly over Canelo. I like it.

I don't know how many more characters the forum will allow me to add on a quoted post... but here goes.

I don't blame Canelo himself for all of the shenanigans around him (although I directly blame him for some). I blame promoters, the WBC, many Canelo fans, etc. I hate blown-up, manufactured hype... whether it's Canelo, Ryan Garcia, or anyone else. I much prefer fighters get to the top the old fashioned work. Not through pre-anointed B.S. from everyone around them (for whatever the reason). It's not a beauty contest.

But the fact of the matter is... Canelo is the beneficiary. So naturally much of the dislike is directed at him. Some things may or may not be under his control, but again... he's the beneficiary. Also... it's a fact of life that after being placed on a throne with a golden spoon in your mouth all of your career... at some point you begin to feel ENTITLED. And that's where Canelo has finally arrived. At entitled status.

The 15-year old argument... I see what you're saying. But it still doesn't make it right that a fighter should pad a PROFESSIONAL record with bums until he's 40-0 or somewhere thereabouts. Require professional fighters to have whatever they need in terms of amateur fights before stepping onto the professional ranks. Otherwise, wins and losses don't mean diddly squat. If I can't blame Canelo for that, I'll blame the system. Which by the way let me mention seems a bit more prevalent in places like Mexico (see: JCC).

I don't hold "having the right management, promoters, etc" against anybody. It's a necessary part of the business. In fact, many fighters have fallen below their potential BECAUSE they haven't had the right promoter, management, etc. But in Canelo's case it was multiplied and exaggerated. Someone in powerful places decided long ago that this "handsome", red-headed (an anomaly in Mexico) kid could be popular with the casuals (including women, which boxing always seeks to attract)... and proceeded to give Canelo every advantage in the book.

You mentioned Canelo and Cotto with regards to GGG. I remember vividly that Cotto's size wasn't suited for middleweight. Yes... his fight vs a lame Sergio Martinez was criticized and rightly so. But Cotto had no business going up against GGG. Canelo, on the contrary, is much bigger body-wise than Cotto. He dodged GGG initially with that "marinating" B.S., but then saw fit to go fight JCC Jr. at an even higher weight. Smacks of ducking and hypocrisy. But again... it's Canelo... so it's ok.

We'll agree to disagree on Fielding. That was a blatant reach for a trinket, when Canelo's team had fully calculated that Fielding posed no risk. As soon as he got the trinket, he went running back down in weight. To me, the Kovalev fight was coldly calculated as well. Canelo would've NEVER given him a second thought before the Ward debacle. All of this was proven when Canelo stupidly talked about going to cruiser to fight some obscure, unknown belt holder (forget his name at the moment). Screw the challenge. It's all about the shiny new belt. He would've never stayed at cruiser either. It's hard to respect a man like that.

Hey I get your point regarding Pac fans and Floyd fans. I'm not too fond of them either. Especially the ones that go overboard and exaggerate their man's achievements and sweep their shortcomings under the rug. I try to remain objective. But none of that lets Canelo off the hook in any of the aspects I've mentioned above.

I know boxing has changed. Nowadays I go into Facebook and it's all about what "he said" and "the other guy responded." Trash-talking on social media is what's important. Actual fights rarely happen when they should... and it's all about image.

So in summary, yes... Canelo has had a very good career. But in my view... and quoting a previous poster... "Is he an ATG? Absolutely nowhere near it."



Yep... I figured the post was too long. I'll have to remove some of the quoted parts.