Andre Ward DESERVED a Canelo fight!

[Primo Carnera]

"Canelo was half their size"

what?

are we talking canelo at his best v andre at his best? or eleven year olds or whatever era's you're on about? best v best canelo puts andre to bed early

Canelo at his best v Ward at pretty much any time of his career from becoming a World Champ onwards.

yeah canelo from the second ggg fight sleeps andre at any point of his career

Yep, talk’s cheap. He can’t “sleep” GGG, he just about gets past him . Yet on that performance , he KO’s Ward!
And for the record I’m one of those that says Canelo won that fight.

[TIC]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

any knowledgeable boxing fan knows miguel won the middleweight title & any knowledgeable boxing fan should want a champion to fight their biggest threat & that's that

i am not using miguel as a comparison to canelo. i am highlighting that a real huge ggg fan would call out the guys who ducked him. miguel never offered to fight someone who weighed 32 pounds more than him in their previous fights & the alleged offer to badou still would have been within the cruiserweight limits as you very well know. miguel did however request catchweights when titles were on the line, forcing fighters to weigh less than the championship limit

you also contributed this

I've always been a huge GGG fan

which lead to this current discussion. the andre v canelo fight was never really even a thing as andre was weights above canelo at those times

that is all

[TIC]

"Canelo was half their size"

what?

are we talking canelo at his best v andre at his best? or eleven year olds or whatever era's you're on about? best v best canelo puts andre to bed early

Canelo at his best v Ward at pretty much any time of his career from becoming a World Champ onwards.

yeah canelo from the second ggg fight sleeps andre at any point of his career

Yep, talk’s cheap. He can’t “sleep” GGG, he just about gets past him . Yet on that performance , he KO’s Ward!
And for the record I’m one of those that says Canelo won that fight.

yep talk is cheap. who has slept ggg? has anyone even knocked him down? andre don't have ggg's chin. yes on that performance canelo sleeps andre. i thought you had that fight a draw

[TitoFan]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

any knowledgeable boxing fan knows miguel won the middleweight title & any knowledgeable boxing fan should want a champion to fight their biggest threat & that's that

i am not using miguel as a comparison to canelo. i am highlighting that a real huge ggg fan would call out the guys who ducked him. miguel never offered to fight someone who weighed 32 pounds more than him in their previous fights & the alleged offer to badou still would have been within the cruiserweight limits as you very well know. miguel did however request catchweights when titles were on the line, forcing fighters to weigh less than the championship limit

you also contributed this

I've always been a huge GGG fan

which lead to this current discussion. the andre v canelo fight was never really even a thing as andre was weights above canelo at those times

that is all

You can mention catchweights all you want. Doesn't change the fact that Canelo wanting to drain Badou Jack for a cruiserweight title fight is one of the most chickenshit moves in boxing history.

But don't take my word for it. Read for yourself.

https://www.boxingscene.com/badou-ja...clause--175475

"Badou Jack: I Won't Be Facing Canelo Next; They Want Fight At 180, Plus Rehydration Clause"


Drain the guy 20 pounds... PLUS... a rehydration clause. And Ginger's got the nerve to call it a cruiserweight title fight. A title he would've never defended... because Ginger is all about the trinket.

Meanwhile, Badou himself told Ginger he should fight David Benavidez.


It's telling that you should continue to defend the chickenshit moves of the most coddled fighter in boxing history.

None of the other Mexican champions before or since have ever reached for trinkets just for the sake of the damn trinkets... all sportsmanship be damned.

You're just like the other casuals of today.

[TitoFan]

[TIC]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

any knowledgeable boxing fan knows miguel won the middleweight title & any knowledgeable boxing fan should want a champion to fight their biggest threat & that's that

i am not using miguel as a comparison to canelo. i am highlighting that a real huge ggg fan would call out the guys who ducked him. miguel never offered to fight someone who weighed 32 pounds more than him in their previous fights & the alleged offer to badou still would have been within the cruiserweight limits as you very well know. miguel did however request catchweights when titles were on the line, forcing fighters to weigh less than the championship limit

you also contributed this

I've always been a huge GGG fan

which lead to this current discussion. the andre v canelo fight was never really even a thing as andre was weights above canelo at those times

that is all

You can mention catchweights all you want. Doesn't change the fact that Canelo wanting to drain Badou Jack for a cruiserweight title fight is one of the most chickenshit moves in boxing history.

But don't take my word for it. Read for yourself.

https://www.boxingscene.com/badou-ja...clause--175475

"Badou Jack: I Won't Be Facing Canelo Next; They Want Fight At 180, Plus Rehydration Clause"


Drain the guy 20 pounds... PLUS... a rehydration clause. And Ginger's got the nerve to call it a cruiserweight title fight. A title he would've never defended... because Ginger is all about the trinket.

Meanwhile, Badou himself told Ginger he should fight David Benavidez.


It's telling that you should continue to defend the chickenshit moves of the most coddled fighter in boxing history.

None of the other Mexican champions before or since have ever reached for trinkets just for the sake of the damn trinkets... all sportsmanship be damned.

You're just like the other casuals of today.

this is all only alleged by badou. have you got a copy of the official proposal? badou weighed 32 pounds more than canelo in their previous fights. i guess you'd be good with canelo v tank by that reasoning

at what weight division would a fight at 180 pounds be in titofan? doh. doesn't matter if canelo defended the title because he would have fought for it within the divisions weight limit

just like miguel & sergio not fighting the biggest threat ggg as it was just not in the cards, sadly canelo v david b doesn't seem to be in the cards. david b has moved up & i think you said he's moved on, maybe you should do the same. david b's got a very good fight coming up next

emanuel navarrete says hi

you're trying to hide that you're one of the biggest casuals on here

[TIC]

david b's moved up

[Primo Carnera]

"Canelo was half their size"

what?

are we talking canelo at his best v andre at his best? or eleven year olds or whatever era's you're on about? best v best canelo puts andre to bed early

Canelo at his best v Ward at pretty much any time of his career from becoming a World Champ onwards.

yeah canelo from the second ggg fight sleeps andre at any point of his career

Yep, talk’s cheap. He can’t “sleep” GGG, he just about gets past him . Yet on that performance , he KO’s Ward!
And for the record I’m one of those that says Canelo won that fight.

yep talk is cheap. who has slept ggg? has anyone even knocked him down? andre don't have ggg's chin. yes on that performance canelo sleeps andre. i thought you had that fight a draw

No, if I remember right, (and I might be wrong because I can’t remember what I had for breakfast yesterday!)
I had the first fight a draw and Canelo winning the second fight.

[Master]

Triple G won both fights against Canelo.

[erics44]

"Canelo was half their size"

what?

are we talking canelo at his best v andre at his best? or eleven year olds or whatever era's you're on about? best v best canelo puts andre to bed early

Canelo at his best v Ward at pretty much any time of his career from becoming a World Champ onwards.

yeah canelo from the second ggg fight sleeps andre at any point of his career

Yep, talk’s cheap. He can’t “sleep” GGG, he just about gets past him . Yet on that performance , he KO’s Ward!
And for the record I’m one of those that says Canelo won that fight.

yep talk is cheap. who has slept ggg? has anyone even knocked him down? andre don't have ggg's chin. yes on that performance canelo sleeps andre. i thought you had that fight a draw

No, if I remember right, (and I might be wrong because I can’t remember what I had for breakfast yesterday!)
I had the first fight a draw and Canelo winning the second fight.

The first fight was never a draw

GGG won clearly

Second fight could have been a draw, Canelo winning wasn't a robbery

And Andre ward is a fighter I'm just not arsed about, boring and his biggest wins are debatable

[TIC]

"Canelo was half their size"

what?

are we talking canelo at his best v andre at his best? or eleven year olds or whatever era's you're on about? best v best canelo puts andre to bed early

Canelo at his best v Ward at pretty much any time of his career from becoming a World Champ onwards.

yeah canelo from the second ggg fight sleeps andre at any point of his career

Yep, talk’s cheap. He can’t “sleep” GGG, he just about gets past him . Yet on that performance , he KO’s Ward!
And for the record I’m one of those that says Canelo won that fight.

yep talk is cheap. who has slept ggg? has anyone even knocked him down? andre don't have ggg's chin. yes on that performance canelo sleeps andre. i thought you had that fight a draw

No, if I remember right, (and I might be wrong because I can’t remember what I had for breakfast yesterday!)
I had the first fight a draw and Canelo winning the second fight.

oh okay i must have been thinking of your score for the first fight. i also had it closer than others but had ggg edging it. the second i had canelo winning

Triple G won both fights against Canelo.

not the second

[Spicoli]

i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat. miguel & sergio aren't the only ones that ducked ggg

Well it was just never in the cards as Cotto v Canelo was being HBO targeted even prior to Canelo dusting off Kirkland and Cotto making his initial defense. And it gets lost, but Golovkin willfully accepted step aside money in order for that lead up and mega fight to take place.

It is interesting to ponder though. Let's say Golovkin is in there rather than Geale and he demolishes Cotto thus becoming champ. It could have completely changed history. Does Canelo sac up and go for the vaunted middleweight title vs Golovkin at that point because it's no longer Cotto? Or does he do the same slooow role he did, needing 4 catchweight fights over two years. If Cotto was expected to face him after just 1 middleweight/CW fight, shirley Canelo could. It would have been very interesting.

well by your reasoning then canelo v david b was just never in the cards. i'm fully aware of the eight hundred k step aside money. the step aside offer came from team miguel, it wasn't ggg's idea. if ggg refused miguel would have just dropped the belt, which basically happened anyway because miguel refused to pay the sanctioning fees. what's your excuse for sergio?

let's go back a step. if sergio fights ggg & ggg demolishes sergio thus becoming champion. it could have completely changed history. does miguel sac up & go for the vaunted middleweight title v ggg at that point? as for canelo's catchweights, one was requested of him from floyd, the alfredo & erislandy were both one pound over the jr middleweight limit & james had fought over the catchweight limit in his previous fight. sergio & miguel were expected to fight ggg but didn't, canelo did. it would have been interesting

It's not my reasoning it's what actually happened and what was always going to happen, and what all parties involved were steering to and leading fans into loud and clear. I'd say Benavidez-Canelo was much more in the cards based on oh I dunno, them actually being in the same division for years, Benavidez holding the top spot and interim and fans and media actually calling for it . Unlike Cotto-Golovkin. And what happened to that "I want the champ to fight the biggest threat" call out you speak of. Or per usual is Canelo above being called out and labeled ducker as with Cotto/Martinez.

Excuse for Sergio for what? A 39 year old Sergio with clearly knees shot to pieces would have met the exact same fate as Cotto vs Golovkin. Probably worse. And as already stated, no Cotto does not fight Golovkin in his first venture above 154 as we all know he would have been demolished, at any point. That entire middleweight/not middleweight period was bs. It was all about being able to say multi division champ. But I'll ask the question again...does Canelo go after Golovkin right off if he would have dusted Cotto, or does he need the 4 catchweights and 2 years to do that? Yep Canelo loved his catchweights. It was a running joke when people would say they're fighting at "Caneloweight" having fought 7 in roughly 3.5 years. And glad you caught the Angulo one. As it was Canelo who would/could not make the weight.

[TitoFan]

i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat. miguel & sergio aren't the only ones that ducked ggg

Well it was just never in the cards as Cotto v Canelo was being HBO targeted even prior to Canelo dusting off Kirkland and Cotto making his initial defense. And it gets lost, but Golovkin willfully accepted step aside money in order for that lead up and mega fight to take place.

It is interesting to ponder though. Let's say Golovkin is in there rather than Geale and he demolishes Cotto thus becoming champ. It could have completely changed history. Does Canelo sac up and go for the vaunted middleweight title vs Golovkin at that point because it's no longer Cotto? Or does he do the same slooow role he did, needing 4 catchweight fights over two years. If Cotto was expected to face him after just 1 middleweight/CW fight, shirley Canelo could. It would have been very interesting.

well by your reasoning then canelo v david b was just never in the cards. i'm fully aware of the eight hundred k step aside money. the step aside offer came from team miguel, it wasn't ggg's idea. if ggg refused miguel would have just dropped the belt, which basically happened anyway because miguel refused to pay the sanctioning fees. what's your excuse for sergio?

let's go back a step. if sergio fights ggg & ggg demolishes sergio thus becoming champion. it could have completely changed history. does miguel sac up & go for the vaunted middleweight title v ggg at that point? as for canelo's catchweights, one was requested of him from floyd, the alfredo & erislandy were both one pound over the jr middleweight limit & james had fought over the catchweight limit in his previous fight. sergio & miguel were expected to fight ggg but didn't, canelo did. it would have been interesting

It's not my reasoning it's what actually happened and what was always going to happen, and what all parties involved were steering to and leading fans into loud and clear. I'd say Benavidez-Canelo was much more in the cards based on oh I dunno, them actually being in the same division for years, Benavidez holding the top spot and interim and fans and media actually calling for it . Unlike Cotto-Golovkin. And what happened to that "I want the champ to fight the biggest threat" call out you speak of. Or per usual is Canelo above being called out and labeled ducker as with Cotto/Martinez.

Excuse for Sergio for what? A 39 year old Sergio with clearly knees shot to pieces would have met the exact same fate as Cotto vs Golovkin. Probably worse. And as already stated, no Cotto does not fight Golovkin in his first venture above 154 as we all know he would have been demolished, at any point. That entire middleweight/not middleweight period was bs. It was all about being able to say multi division champ. But I'll ask the question again...does Canelo go after Golovkin right off if he would have dusted Cotto, or does he need the 4 catchweights and 2 years to do that? Yep Canelo loved his catchweights. It was a running joke when people would say they're fighting at "Caneloweight" having fought 7 in roughly 3.5 years. And glad you caught the Angulo one. As it was Canelo who would/could not make the weight.

If memory serves me correctly, it was avoiding a showdown against GGG that the Canelo camp came up with the term "marinating."

Canelo wasn't (cough) ready to fight GGG at the time... but somewhere in there he managed to go up even higher in weight to fight the mummy... Chavez Jr.

Canelo's career has been chockfull of calculations, marinating, clause-making, etc.

If nothing else, he gets a PhD on navigating around the biggest risks, while smelling like a rose to his fanatical fanbase.

[TitoFan]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

any knowledgeable boxing fan knows miguel won the middleweight title & any knowledgeable boxing fan should want a champion to fight their biggest threat & that's that

i am not using miguel as a comparison to canelo. i am highlighting that a real huge ggg fan would call out the guys who ducked him. miguel never offered to fight someone who weighed 32 pounds more than him in their previous fights & the alleged offer to badou still would have been within the cruiserweight limits as you very well know. miguel did however request catchweights when titles were on the line, forcing fighters to weigh less than the championship limit

you also contributed this

I've always been a huge GGG fan

which lead to this current discussion. the andre v canelo fight was never really even a thing as andre was weights above canelo at those times

that is all

You can mention catchweights all you want. Doesn't change the fact that Canelo wanting to drain Badou Jack for a cruiserweight title fight is one of the most chickenshit moves in boxing history.

But don't take my word for it. Read for yourself.

https://www.boxingscene.com/badou-ja...clause--175475

"Badou Jack: I Won't Be Facing Canelo Next; They Want Fight At 180, Plus Rehydration Clause"


Drain the guy 20 pounds... PLUS... a rehydration clause. And Ginger's got the nerve to call it a cruiserweight title fight. A title he would've never defended... because Ginger is all about the trinket.

Meanwhile, Badou himself told Ginger he should fight David Benavidez.


It's telling that you should continue to defend the chickenshit moves of the most coddled fighter in boxing history.

None of the other Mexican champions before or since have ever reached for trinkets just for the sake of the damn trinkets... all sportsmanship be damned.

You're just like the other casuals of today.

this is all only alleged by badou. have you got a copy of the official proposal? REALLY? You want to go there?


badou weighed 32 pounds more than canelo in their previous fights. i guess you'd be good with canelo v tank by that reasoning

at what weight division would a fight at 180 pounds be in titofan? doh. doesn't matter if canelo defended the title because he would have fought for it within the divisions weight limit

This is just one of those times where all there is to say is that... IF YOU'RE OK WITH THAT... there's nothing else to say.

just like miguel & sergio not fighting the biggest threat ggg as it was just not in the cards, sadly canelo v david b doesn't seem to be in the cards. david b has moved up & i think you said he's moved on, maybe you should do the same. david b's got a very good fight coming up next

emanuel navarrete says hi

you're trying to hide that you're one of the biggest casuals on here

At least try to be original.

It's clear you're at a loss for real defenses when you so shamelessly grasp at straws.

1. You revert to your modus operandi of asking for documented proof.

2. You're apparently ok with Ginger wanting to drain a cruiserweight to the bottom of the division, COMPLETE with rehydration clauses. Again... the most chickenshit move in the history of boxing.

3. You mask your fanboyism by regurgitating the labels that apply strictly to you.

Beyond sad... it's pathetic.

[TIC]

i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat. miguel & sergio aren't the only ones that ducked ggg

Well it was just never in the cards as Cotto v Canelo was being HBO targeted even prior to Canelo dusting off Kirkland and Cotto making his initial defense. And it gets lost, but Golovkin willfully accepted step aside money in order for that lead up and mega fight to take place.

It is interesting to ponder though. Let's say Golovkin is in there rather than Geale and he demolishes Cotto thus becoming champ. It could have completely changed history. Does Canelo sac up and go for the vaunted middleweight title vs Golovkin at that point because it's no longer Cotto? Or does he do the same slooow role he did, needing 4 catchweight fights over two years. If Cotto was expected to face him after just 1 middleweight/CW fight, shirley Canelo could. It would have been very interesting.

well by your reasoning then canelo v david b was just never in the cards. i'm fully aware of the eight hundred k step aside money. the step aside offer came from team miguel, it wasn't ggg's idea. if ggg refused miguel would have just dropped the belt, which basically happened anyway because miguel refused to pay the sanctioning fees. what's your excuse for sergio?

let's go back a step. if sergio fights ggg & ggg demolishes sergio thus becoming champion. it could have completely changed history. does miguel sac up & go for the vaunted middleweight title v ggg at that point? as for canelo's catchweights, one was requested of him from floyd, the alfredo & erislandy were both one pound over the jr middleweight limit & james had fought over the catchweight limit in his previous fight. sergio & miguel were expected to fight ggg but didn't, canelo did. it would have been interesting

It's not my reasoning it's what actually happened and what was always going to happen, and what all parties involved were steering to and leading fans into loud and clear. I'd say Benavidez-Canelo was much more in the cards based on oh I dunno, them actually being in the same division for years, Benavidez holding the top spot and interim and fans and media actually calling for it . Unlike Cotto-Golovkin. And what happened to that "I want the champ to fight the biggest threat" call out you speak of. Or per usual is Canelo above being called out and labeled ducker as with Cotto/Martinez.

Excuse for Sergio for what? A 39 year old Sergio with clearly knees shot to pieces would have met the exact same fate as Cotto vs Golovkin. Probably worse. And as already stated, no Cotto does not fight Golovkin in his first venture above 154 as we all know he would have been demolished, at any point. That entire middleweight/not middleweight period was bs. It was all about being able to say multi division champ. But I'll ask the question again...does Canelo go after Golovkin right off if he would have dusted Cotto, or does he need the 4 catchweights and 2 years to do that? Yep Canelo loved his catchweights. It was a running joke when people would say they're fighting at "Caneloweight" having fought 7 in roughly 3.5 years. And glad you caught the Angulo one. As it was Canelo who would/could not make the weight.

i said "i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat", your response was "Well it was just never in the cards", your words, your reasoning. you saying david b v canelo was much more in the cards is not taking into account canelo's plans. he had a contract for dmitry & then ggg three. needed surgery, took a lighter fight & was looking for the rematch with dmitry, made an offer but it was refused, leading canelo to look elsewhere. that timeline took us through to the jermell & demetrius fights. david b moved up next fight & was then given the choice to keep his light heavy or super middle interim belt & he chose light heavy, giving up the chance to form a mandatory shot. i agree david b was probably the most deserving of a shot at canelo but he wasn't canelo's biggest threat for me, that was david m. miguel was the champion & had a clear number one threat. canelo was the champion but there was no clear number one. i had been saying for years those guys should have fought each other to establish a clear number one challenger

sergio was thirty nine & had bad knees from serhiy dzinziruk to martin murray? sergio was the champion & ggg was the clear biggest threat. i guess it's only canelo who has to fight who you perceive as his biggest threat & for others it's just oh well just not in the cards. i think canelo fights ggg if he beat sergio or miguel. he fought ggg within a year of defending a jr middleweight belt. be honest about the catchweights. canelo didn't request all of them. fact is canelo was still defending a jr middleweight belt only a year before fighting ggg