yes all time greats but how would you rate them at middle all time? by cashing out i mean marvin took money over better challenges, especially in ray's case. as master said herol graham who had fought three times in eighty six or for me the bodysnatcher who had fought four times in eighty six, would have, on paper been seen as better challenges than an almost three year inactive ray. he also bowed down to ray's requests for twelve rounds, bigger gloves & ring size to get the fight. i wasn't around at the time so i was asking spicoli what the feeling was surrounding the marvin v ray fight. was it seen as a gimmick? i just can't get my head around it, taking nothing away from ray, an all time great but with large gaps in his activity, i just can't see the public thinking it was a competitive match up. ray had only fought once in five years. i couldn't see the boxing fans of today accepting a dominant champion facing an almost three years inactive challenger, who's last fight was a division below (almost two) & only having fought once in five years as a competitive challenger, no matter how good that fighter was. i guess vitali did something similar against sam peter but they were the same weight & vitali had emetrius status & sam peter was no marvin, ray had never fought at middleweight i think, i guess the wbc just took their envelope