Juan Diaz P4P huh?Dear me....

[El Gamo]

hitmandonny

What?

There are a lot of posters here that sound as if Campbell ended Diaz.
Why must an undef3eated fighter be deemed ruined because of one loss?

No-one said he was ruined,it merely highlighted the FACT that people who were saying he was P4P were either bandwagon jumpers,had never seen him and followed the crowd or were genuine fans(Oumafan is the only one that comes to mind)

No-one said he was ruined,but he lost a fight he was HUGELY favoured to win,v a 36 year old who any P4P fighter should have dealt with adequately. General consensus was Diaz would win,easy or not,he would win. Well,he didn't.

Facts are facts.He's young.He can come back. But as before the fight and even more so after it,there are fighters out there who have accomplished more and certainly fought better fighters,and were and no so again,are,far more worthy of P4P status.

And Majesty,I'm not getting into a debate with you.It's pointless. You remind me of Starr/PGH angel eyes:debating with them is as enjoyable and productive as banging my head against a brick wall.

[Kev]

hitmandonny

What?

There are a lot of posters here that sound as if Campbell ended Diaz.
Why must an undef3eated fighter be deemed ruined because of one loss?

No-one said he was ruined,it merely highlighted the FACT that people who were saying he was P4P were either bandwagon jumpers,had never seen him and followed the crowd or were genuine fans(Oumafan is the only one that comes to mind)

No-one said he was ruined,but he lost a fight he was HUGELY favoured to win,v a 36 year old who any P4P fighter should have dealt with adequately. General consensus was Diaz would win,easy or not,he would win. Well,he didn't.

Facts are facts.He's young.He can come back. But as before the fight and even more so after it,there are fighters out there who have accomplished more and certainly fought better fighters,and were and no so again,are,far more worthy of P4P status.

And Majesty,I'm not getting into a debate with you.It's pointless. You remind me of Starr/PGH angel eyes:debating with them is as enjoyable and productive as banging my head against a brick wall.

What has Majesty said to merit personal abuse other than disagree with you

Incidently what was your top 20 prior to the Campbell fight?

The loss to Cambell was a shock, but you can't backwards rationalise his acomplishments. What if Ivan Calderon, Kelly Pavlik, Ricky Hatton, Kessler, Cotto etc all lose their next fights, does that mean it was a laughable joke that they were considered fringe p4p stars as well?

Please I'm curious to know of all the dozens of fighters you think deserved to be higher than Diaz before last weekend based on merit?

you make it sound like he was an overratted club fighter but I expect even you would have had him in your top 15, only hating could convince otherwise.

Please show me all the other guys outside the top 10 who had compiled an undefeated record, had won 3/4 of all the recognised title belts in his division, and in succesive fights had forced a future Hall of Famer and a reigning world champ to quit on their stools from the relentless torture he was dishing out?

Show me all these other fighters who had made 9 straight defenses, still at only 24 and had virtually cleaned up their division in terms of belts and yet were nowhere in the p4p rankings?

You're just plain hating. Ok so he may have been only 13th in the p4p list and not 10th but to make a post ridiculing all those who had him 3 places higher than you did just makes you look like a moron.

No offense.

[p4pking]

What?

There are a lot of posters here that sound as if Campbell ended Diaz.
Why must an undef3eated fighter be deemed ruined because of one loss?

No-one said he was ruined,it merely highlighted the FACT that people who were saying he was P4P were either bandwagon jumpers,had never seen him and followed the crowd or were genuine fans(Oumafan is the only one that comes to mind)

No-one said he was ruined,but he lost a fight he was HUGELY favoured to win,v a 36 year old who any P4P fighter should have dealt with adequately. General consensus was Diaz would win,easy or not,he would win. Well,he didn't.

Facts are facts.He's young.He can come back. But as before the fight and even more so after it,there are fighters out there who have accomplished more and certainly fought better fighters,and were and no so again,are,far more worthy of P4P status.

And Majesty,I'm not getting into a debate with you.It's pointless. You remind me of Starr/PGH angel eyes:debating with them is as enjoyable and productive as banging my head against a brick wall.

What has Majesty said to merit personal abuse other than disagree with you

Incidently what was your top 20 prior to the Campbell fight?

The loss to Cambell was a shock, but you can't backwards rationalise his acomplishments. What if Ivan Calderon, Kelly Pavlik, Ricky Hatton, Kessler, Cotto etc all lose their next fights, does that mean it was a laughable joke that they were considered fringe p4p stars as well?

Please I'm curious to know of all the dozens of fighters you think deserved to be higher than Diaz before last weekend based on merit?

you make it sound like he was an overratted club fighter but I expect even you would have had him in your top 15, only hating could convince otherwise.

Please show me all the other guys outside the top 10 who had compiled an undefeated record, had won 3/4 of all the recognised title belts in his division, and in succesive fights had forced a future Hall of Famer and a reigning world champ to quit on their stools from the relentless torture he was dishing out?

Show me all these other fighters who had made 9 straight defenses, still at only 24 and had virtually cleaned up their division in terms of belts and yet were nowhere in the p4p rankings?

You're just plain hating. Ok so he may have been only 13th in the p4p list and not 10th but to make a post ridiculing all those who had him 3 places higher than you did just makes you look like a moron.

No offense.

Agree with you completely. Great post man.

[Kev]

Cheers buddy, I like Gamo a lot, but his he does get on his soap box from time to time and spit out bile at those who disagree with him.

Every single expert in boxing would have had Juan Diaz on the fringes of p4p, maybe not quite the top 10 but damn close. He had done more to unify his division than any other fighter has done to unify theirs.

Only Calzaghe who is relinquishing to move up held as many belts.

[El Gamo]

Bilbo,your posts go out of the window when you yourself diss fighters like Mijars,guys you have barely seen yet ask questions about/make disparaging comments about. And Diaz was at best outside the top 10,which goes back to my original point in that he was NOT top 10 and people who had him there were over rating him/bandwagon jumpers. If you had noticed the point I was making,you would not have continued to ramble on and on and on...

For you to accuse me of hating is ironic and ridiculous. you're the one who used to make threads saying little guys are crap etc etc. As for Majesty,he knows I was playing with him,so what concern is it of yours.

And 3 places is alot in P4P lists "moron". Ok,I'll have Floyd at 4 instead of 1.Does that not make a difference?Please stop making yourself look idiotic. You jumped on a bandwagon,got it wrong and now are tryong to cover up. In fact,I can guarantee that these guys who ahd Diz top 10 P4P have only seen his last 2 fights. 3 at most.



Mick sid it best:

What makes me laugh is that you yourself have said plenty times that you don't rate the small guys and that you could beat them and punch them into the next world Buuuuut you sure as hell like to comment on them and make comments on how much they suck and don't deserve things. For someone whos not interested in the smaller guys you sure type like if you follow them closely...

[Kev]

Bilbo,your posts go out of the window when you yourself diss fighters like Mijars,guys you have barely seen yet ask questions about/make disparaging comments about. And Diaz was at best outside the top 10,which goes back to my original point in that he was NOT top 10 and people who had him there were over rating him/bandwagon jumpers. If you had noticed the point I was making,you would not have continued to ramble on and on and on...

For you to accuse me of hating is ironic and ridiculous. you're the one who used to make threads saying little guys are crap etc etc. As for Majesty,he knows I was playing with him,so what concern is it of yours.

And 3 places is alot in P4P lists "moron". Ok,I'll have Floyd at 4 instead of 1.Does that not make a difference?Please stop making yourself look idiotic. You jumped on a bandwagon,got it wrong and now are tryong to cover up. In fact,I can guarantee that these guys who ahd Diz top 10 P4P have only seen his last 2 fights. 3 at most.



Mick sid it best:

What makes me laugh is that you yourself have said plenty times that you don't rate the small guys and that you could beat them and punch them into the next world Buuuuut you sure as hell like to comment on them and make comments on how much they suck and don't deserve things. For someone whos not interested in the smaller guys you sure type like if you follow them closely...

I've got nothing against Mijares Gamo I just thought you had him in your p4p list. I've seen him in some lists on here. Glad you wern't that premature.

Incidently which fighters did you rate higher than Diaz prior to the Campbell fight.

I already stated I had him 11th behind Calderon but wouldn't object either way.

How many fighters did u place above him and why?

[donnydarkoIRL]

[quote=El Gamo;479870]

hitmandonny

What?

There are a lot of posters here that sound as if Campbell ended Diaz.
Why must an undef3eated fighter be deemed ruined because of one loss?

No-one said he was ruined,it merely highlighted the FACT that people who were saying he was P4P were either bandwagon jumpers,had never seen him and followed the crowd or were genuine fans(Oumafan is the only one that comes to mind)

No-one said he was ruined,but he lost a fight he was HUGELY favoured to win,v a 36 year old who any P4P fighter should have dealt with adequately. General consensus was Diaz would win,easy or not,he would win. Well,he didn't.

Facts are facts.He's young.He can come back. But as before the fight and even more so after it,there are fighters out there who have accomplished more and certainly fought better fighters,and were and no so again,are,far more worthy of P4P status.
[quote]
So is that the purpose of the thread to highlight peoples mistakes?

The common consensus was that Diaz would win, but in truth a lot of Boxing fans had picked Campell. Violent Demise and Mick for example each picked Campbell. Any man who steps into a boxing ring has a chance of beating an opponent of the same weight, so in reality it's not all that surprising. After all when viewed subjectively each man ebntering the ring has a 1 in 2 chance of winning. So the common consensus has little bearing on Diaz, in fact it acts much more as a reflection against the general boxing public for having such faith in one fighter.

Pound for Pound lists are personal. Everyone's should be unique and a reflection of their own personal tastes and exposures. Let people have their lists.

[bzkfn]

I find it pretty unbelievable to read how this whole thread started. I'm guessing the majority of people still have Diaz in their top 20 P4P. A split decision loss and one off night doesn't make a fighter poor. This is what is wrong with boxing fans today. Gamo buddy, I respect alot of what you have to say but you said that people who rated him P4P were jumping on a bandwagon, but you're pretty damn quick to jump on the bandwagon of bagging on the guy. He has 1 friggin loss!!! In my eyes he's still P4P the best lightweight in the world, he just had an off night.