No matter who he beats, can calzaghe be the lbs4lbs greatest?

[BIG H]

....by that I means personal favourite fighters

[Dark Lord Al]

Firstly id like to say hi to everyone as this is my first post

I was recommended to this forum by a friend who says it is the most respected forum for boxing.

I have been looking at other forums which i wont mention but i have noticed something that seems very apparent.

It seems that joe calzaghe has a lot of haters, particularly stateside. I must also say he appears to have a lot of fans stateside aswell

But i wondered something, from looking at performances and also records and future fights...IF calzaghe beats hopkins, then waits a while (whilst the winner of johnson v dawson faces the winner of tarver v woods) and calzaghe then fights the overall champ of those bouts AND LETS SAY HE WINS which would make him totally undefeated, and undisputed champ at 2 divisions. Probably the 2 hardest divisions in boxing today...THEN he has one final fight and it is against pavlik at super middle weight...calzaghe comes down from light heavy to face pavlik and beats pavlik (i think he would, seeing as pavliks style is almost taylor made for joe to break, nothing away from pavlik as he is a great fighter who i like a lot)...so lets say IF calzaghe does this, WILL HE EVEN WIN THE RESPECT OF THE HATERS? I mean surely by being totally unbeaten, facing EVERY great fighter there has been in his divisions (aprt from jones who was not willing to fight calzaghe, and nowdays there is no point them fighting because joe would win comfortably but everyone will scream 'but jones is past it'...and yes he is past it, so theres no point).

IF this scenario occurs and joe ends his career being undefeated and undisputed champ of the both super middles and light heavies, having beaten the likes of mitchell, lacy, kessler, reid, eubank, hopkins, pavlik and dawson/woods/tarver/johnson (the overall winner of that match up)...plus been champ for 12 years!

Will he be rated the bet lbs4lbs fighter in the world?

Of course i have said 'IF', because it is possible that he might not be able to do that. Myself, as a british fan (you can tell by the name lol) believes that he is CAPABLE of doing it, because i have been watching joe for years, years before he came to the spotlight by his match up with lacy.

I understand why he is an unknown entity up till now in the us because he hasnt fought there, ALSO it is NECESSARY for him to fight and win big fights stateside for him to be called the best lbs4lbs fighter, i fully understand that. BUT i think that by beating hopkins, pavlik and dawson on us soil...he proves he is the champ without any doubt! IF he does that

When i compare him to the likes of roy jones, i look at jones now (notably not as good as he was in his prime), jones doesnt seem to be taking any flack for picking bayer to fight What if calzaghe choose to fight bayer? He would have people screaming at him that hes a p*ssy, would he not?

Why does jones want to fight bayer, when kessler ko'd bayer easily? WHY DOES JONES NOT WANT TO FIGHT KESSLER

Jones in his prime was an incredible talent. However if calzaghe goes on to beat hopkins, pavlik and dawson (lets say dawson becomes champ of the 4 light heavies battling it out atm)...then with a pro record of being unbeaten, undisputed champ at 2 divisions and champ for 12 years! Taking out EVERY other great fighter who stood in his path, fighting all over the world in europe and stateside (after the big matchups in the future where it is calzaghes chance to become a complete legendary fighter)...the records put calzaghe above jones in my opinion.

What about yuour opinion (thats why im asking this thread)...or is it a case of no matter who joe beats, no matter where he beats them, no matter if he is undisputed champ for 20 years lol, no matter if he is undefeated in 80 fights (exaggeration lol)...there will STILL be people who say 'NO, CALZAGHE IS A SLAPPER, HE IS NOT THE GREATEST, ROY JONES IS BETTER THAN HIM, FLOYD MAYWEATHER IS BETTER' etc etc?

So ive said what i think of jones...a once brilliant fighter (who is known to have avoided joe, for whatever reason), had incredible flair and skill YET people are willing to constantly make excuses for him. Jones beat tarver in 2003, people were saying he was at his peak then...then he loses 6 months later...and the excuse 'JONES IS PAST IT'

How can jones be past it, only 6 months later? I dont understand? Are people saying that jones was at his 'peak' for 3 years and then suddenly in 6 months he became 'past it'? Id like some opinions on this please guys

Whereas if joe calzaghe lets say beats pavlik, beats dawson and then loses to pavlik, will everyone make excuses for calzaghe and say 'thats because hes past it now'...NO...IN MY OPINION THEY WILL LOVE TO SHOUT HIM DOWN AND SAY THAT HE WAS NEVER A PRIME FIGHTER TO BEGIN WITH!

So why does jones get the special treatment? I could be wrong, but its just an observation ive made...like i said, im open minded and welcome any input and opinions

Lastly bringing me to mayweather. I believe that CURRENTLY floyd is the number 1 lbs4lbs greatest. However there are still some questions. For him to remain the best, id like to see him face cotto and win (and also beat de la hoya in this upcoming rematch).

IF calzaghe beats hopkins, dawson and pavlik all in the usa...why should he not go above mayweather in the lbs4lbs list? Afterall mayweather did not fight all the fighters in each of his divisions, he has so far not faced cotto, mosely,margerito, tszyu (in the past).

Whilst i think floyd is lbs4lbs number one atm, i have to say that IF joe calzaghe beats hopkins, dawson (or the winner of the light heavy eliminator battle) and pavlik...i think he has claim to be greater than floyd afterall he has NOT AVOIDED ANYONE THROUGHOUT HIS ENTIRE CAREER, IF HE COMES STATESIDE AND BEATS THOSE 3 GREAT CHAMPS, THE BEST THE US HAS.

Alternativelym should mayweather besat de la hoya in the rematch AND face cotto and beat cotto...then mayweather is the lbs4lbs greatest (but you could argue if calzaghe does what i outlined earlier that they would then be joint top together).

So...given the 'IF' that i spoke of. Yes im aware that joe calzaghe might not beat hopkins, pavlik and dawson/tarver/woods/johnson...but if he is the 'great' fighter that i truly believe he is and he does do it...SURELY THIS PUTS HIM AS THE BEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD?

Sorry for the longwinded post lol, but my friend says this is the best forum, thats why i went into so much detail

Hopefully this will raise some good discussion. Thanks everyone

Welcome to the site mate - nice thread.

As somebody said previously, JC could beat a prime Ali and still not be percived p4p1 number 1 in a lot of peoples minds. I also agree with Fenster that p4p is all about who would win if you could theoretically make all fighters the same weight reach etc and going by that I could not see JC as p4p number 1 now or anytime soon. For the record he is one of my top 5 fighters ever!

you cant or dont think there have been 5 better fighters than Joe Calzaghe in the history of boxing ??
you are either on drugs or are currently wearing a restrictive jacket in a padded cell.

[ArawakWarria]

Let me say this from STATESIDE...

Joe Calzaghe is the #1 p4p in boxing, and has been for years. First of all, he has been a champion since Floyd turned pro, he has defeated almost all top 10 at his weight & has made more defenses than Hopkins.

Not to mention (imo), he was the person who really gave the WBO its legitimacy. People wanted to ignore it, and because of him, they couldn't, especially when he started defeating legit champs.

Plus, by playing the game the way he did, all of the belts came to him, and his still relatively fresh as a fighter.

At the same weight (fantasy, not manufactured by training) I believe Calzaghe is too busy for Mayweather early, but the fight elevates to an all time classic. I honestly couldn't say who would win.

Congrats on a great start! 50+ pages on your first post!

[BIG H]

Firstly id like to say hi to everyone as this is my first post

I was recommended to this forum by a friend who says it is the most respected forum for boxing.

I have been looking at other forums which i wont mention but i have noticed something that seems very apparent.

It seems that joe calzaghe has a lot of haters, particularly stateside. I must also say he appears to have a lot of fans stateside aswell

But i wondered something, from looking at performances and also records and future fights...IF calzaghe beats hopkins, then waits a while (whilst the winner of johnson v dawson faces the winner of tarver v woods) and calzaghe then fights the overall champ of those bouts AND LETS SAY HE WINS which would make him totally undefeated, and undisputed champ at 2 divisions. Probably the 2 hardest divisions in boxing today...THEN he has one final fight and it is against pavlik at super middle weight...calzaghe comes down from light heavy to face pavlik and beats pavlik (i think he would, seeing as pavliks style is almost taylor made for joe to break, nothing away from pavlik as he is a great fighter who i like a lot)...so lets say IF calzaghe does this, WILL HE EVEN WIN THE RESPECT OF THE HATERS? I mean surely by being totally unbeaten, facing EVERY great fighter there has been in his divisions (aprt from jones who was not willing to fight calzaghe, and nowdays there is no point them fighting because joe would win comfortably but everyone will scream 'but jones is past it'...and yes he is past it, so theres no point).

IF this scenario occurs and joe ends his career being undefeated and undisputed champ of the both super middles and light heavies, having beaten the likes of mitchell, lacy, kessler, reid, eubank, hopkins, pavlik and dawson/woods/tarver/johnson (the overall winner of that match up)...plus been champ for 12 years!

Will he be rated the bet lbs4lbs fighter in the world?

Of course i have said 'IF', because it is possible that he might not be able to do that. Myself, as a british fan (you can tell by the name lol) believes that he is CAPABLE of doing it, because i have been watching joe for years, years before he came to the spotlight by his match up with lacy.

I understand why he is an unknown entity up till now in the us because he hasnt fought there, ALSO it is NECESSARY for him to fight and win big fights stateside for him to be called the best lbs4lbs fighter, i fully understand that. BUT i think that by beating hopkins, pavlik and dawson on us soil...he proves he is the champ without any doubt! IF he does that

When i compare him to the likes of roy jones, i look at jones now (notably not as good as he was in his prime), jones doesnt seem to be taking any flack for picking bayer to fight What if calzaghe choose to fight bayer? He would have people screaming at him that hes a p*ssy, would he not?

Why does jones want to fight bayer, when kessler ko'd bayer easily? WHY DOES JONES NOT WANT TO FIGHT KESSLER

Jones in his prime was an incredible talent. However if calzaghe goes on to beat hopkins, pavlik and dawson (lets say dawson becomes champ of the 4 light heavies battling it out atm)...then with a pro record of being unbeaten, undisputed champ at 2 divisions and champ for 12 years! Taking out EVERY other great fighter who stood in his path, fighting all over the world in europe and stateside (after the big matchups in the future where it is calzaghes chance to become a complete legendary fighter)...the records put calzaghe above jones in my opinion.

What about yuour opinion (thats why im asking this thread)...or is it a case of no matter who joe beats, no matter where he beats them, no matter if he is undisputed champ for 20 years lol, no matter if he is undefeated in 80 fights (exaggeration lol)...there will STILL be people who say 'NO, CALZAGHE IS A SLAPPER, HE IS NOT THE GREATEST, ROY JONES IS BETTER THAN HIM, FLOYD MAYWEATHER IS BETTER' etc etc?

So ive said what i think of jones...a once brilliant fighter (who is known to have avoided joe, for whatever reason), had incredible flair and skill YET people are willing to constantly make excuses for him. Jones beat tarver in 2003, people were saying he was at his peak then...then he loses 6 months later...and the excuse 'JONES IS PAST IT'

How can jones be past it, only 6 months later? I dont understand? Are people saying that jones was at his 'peak' for 3 years and then suddenly in 6 months he became 'past it'? Id like some opinions on this please guys

Whereas if joe calzaghe lets say beats pavlik, beats dawson and then loses to pavlik, will everyone make excuses for calzaghe and say 'thats because hes past it now'...NO...IN MY OPINION THEY WILL LOVE TO SHOUT HIM DOWN AND SAY THAT HE WAS NEVER A PRIME FIGHTER TO BEGIN WITH!

So why does jones get the special treatment? I could be wrong, but its just an observation ive made...like i said, im open minded and welcome any input and opinions

Lastly bringing me to mayweather. I believe that CURRENTLY floyd is the number 1 lbs4lbs greatest. However there are still some questions. For him to remain the best, id like to see him face cotto and win (and also beat de la hoya in this upcoming rematch).

IF calzaghe beats hopkins, dawson and pavlik all in the usa...why should he not go above mayweather in the lbs4lbs list? Afterall mayweather did not fight all the fighters in each of his divisions, he has so far not faced cotto, mosely,margerito, tszyu (in the past).

Whilst i think floyd is lbs4lbs number one atm, i have to say that IF joe calzaghe beats hopkins, dawson (or the winner of the light heavy eliminator battle) and pavlik...i think he has claim to be greater than floyd afterall he has NOT AVOIDED ANYONE THROUGHOUT HIS ENTIRE CAREER, IF HE COMES STATESIDE AND BEATS THOSE 3 GREAT CHAMPS, THE BEST THE US HAS.

Alternativelym should mayweather besat de la hoya in the rematch AND face cotto and beat cotto...then mayweather is the lbs4lbs greatest (but you could argue if calzaghe does what i outlined earlier that they would then be joint top together).

So...given the 'IF' that i spoke of. Yes im aware that joe calzaghe might not beat hopkins, pavlik and dawson/tarver/woods/johnson...but if he is the 'great' fighter that i truly believe he is and he does do it...SURELY THIS PUTS HIM AS THE BEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD?

Sorry for the longwinded post lol, but my friend says this is the best forum, thats why i went into so much detail

Hopefully this will raise some good discussion. Thanks everyone

Welcome to the site mate - nice thread.

As somebody said previously, JC could beat a prime Ali and still not be percived p4p1 number 1 in a lot of peoples minds. I also agree with Fenster that p4p is all about who would win if you could theoretically make all fighters the same weight reach etc and going by that I could not see JC as p4p number 1 now or anytime soon. For the record he is one of my top 5 fighters ever!

you cant or dont think there have been 5 better fighters than Joe Calzaghe in the history of boxing ??
you are either on drugs or are currently wearing a restrictive jacket in a padded cell.

Try reading - I said "MY" top 5 fighters and even made another post directly below saying "MY PERSONAL FAVOURITE FIGHTERS"

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

Welcome to the site mate - nice thread.

As somebody said previously, JC could beat a prime Ali and still not be percived p4p1 number 1 in a lot of peoples minds. I also agree with Fenster that p4p is all about who would win if you could theoretically make all fighters the same weight reach etc and going by that I could not see JC as p4p number 1 now or anytime soon. For the record he is one of my top 5 fighters ever!

you cant or dont think there have been 5 better fighters than Joe Calzaghe in the history of boxing ??
you are either on drugs or are currently wearing a restrictive jacket in a padded cell.

Try reading - I said "MY" top 5 fighters and even made another post directly below saying "MY PERSONAL FAVOURITE FIGHTERS"

Johnny Lawrence is by far #1 P4P

1- Johnny(devistating power and speed- They almost needed to "Get him a bodybag, Yeah!" He was beaten by up and comer Danny Larouso due to being on the downslide of his career. Larouso used questionable techniques to win the fight. Many, to this day think that "sweeping the leg" should have ended it. Larouso's trainer, Mr Miyagi, while in the dressing room between bouts "Fixed" his leg...


2- Bobby
3- Tommy
4- Dutch
5- Jimmy


Simple as that... Cobra Kai. Never Die.

[JLAQ]

Of course JoeCal can.