Do they deserve to be in the Hall or not?

[HattonTheHammer]

How the hell can someone even suggest tarver should be a HOFer??

He beat a 35 year old RJJ and a 36 year old glen johnson, had he of beaten them to at the turn of the decade sure this could be an interesting debate...but he didnt and it isnt.

I dont usually like to comment on potential world class boxers that have fought any lower than 126 as i dont pay attention those divisions..

Calderon looks to be a great little warrior from the few occasions ive seen of him, penalosa always reminded me of that guy who could of come to the party and made a hell of an impression but never quite managed it.

Hatton is 44-1 and his only defeat was by the single greatest p4p athlete of our generation.

If you suggest he shouldnt be a hall of famer you may as well suggest neither should manny pacquiao or marco antonio barrera!!

[p4pking]

How the hell can someone even suggest tarver should be a HOFer??

He beat a 35 year old RJJ and a 36 year old glen johnson, had he of beaten them to at the turn of the decade sure this could be an interesting debate...but he didnt and it isnt.

I dont usually like to comment on potential world class boxers that have fought any lower than 126 as i dont pay attention those divisions..

Calderon looks to be a great little warrior from the few occasions ive seen of him, penalosa always reminded me of that guy who could of come to the party and made a hell of an impression but never quite managed it.

Hatton is 44-1 and his only defeat was by the single greatest p4p athlete of our generation.

If you suggest he shouldnt be a hall of famer you may as well suggest neither should manny pacquiao or marco antonio barrera!!

Pacquiao and Barrera have far higher quality wins than Hatton though, it's not just about who they lost to.

[HattonTheHammer]

How the hell can someone even suggest tarver should be a HOFer??

He beat a 35 year old RJJ and a 36 year old glen johnson, had he of beaten them to at the turn of the decade sure this could be an interesting debate...but he didnt and it isnt.

I dont usually like to comment on potential world class boxers that have fought any lower than 126 as i dont pay attention those divisions..

Calderon looks to be a great little warrior from the few occasions ive seen of him, penalosa always reminded me of that guy who could of come to the party and made a hell of an impression but never quite managed it.

Hatton is 44-1 and his only defeat was by the single greatest p4p athlete of our generation.

If you suggest he shouldnt be a hall of famer you may as well suggest neither should manny pacquiao or marco antonio barrera!!

Pacquiao and Barrera have far higher quality wins than Hatton though, it's not just about who they lost to.

If the hall of fame was about out and out quality im sure you could find a perfectly good argument to suggest someone like ricardo mayorga should be in there.

But its a combination of many different factors. 44-1 is more than enough to argue for hall of fame status, add to that the fact he is still unbeaten and untested at 140, won a world title in a division he wasnt comfortable in and has wins over greats like kostya tszyu and JLC.

[OumaFan]

How the hell can someone even suggest tarver should be a HOFer??

He beat a 35 year old RJJ and a 36 year old glen johnson, had he of beaten them to at the turn of the decade sure this could be an interesting debate...but he didnt and it isnt.

I dont usually like to comment on potential world class boxers that have fought any lower than 126 as i dont pay attention those divisions..

Calderon looks to be a great little warrior from the few occasions ive seen of him, penalosa always reminded me of that guy who could of come to the party and made a hell of an impression but never quite managed it.

Hatton is 44-1 and his only defeat was by the single greatest p4p athlete of our generation.

If you suggest he shouldnt be a hall of famer you may as well suggest neither should manny pacquiao or marco antonio barrera!!

Pacquiao and Barrera have far higher quality wins than Hatton though, it's not just about who they lost to.

If the hall of fame was about out and out quality im sure you could find a perfectly good argument to suggest someone like ricardo mayorga should be in there.

But its a combination of many different factors. 44-1 is more than enough to argue for hall of fame status, add to that the fact he is still unbeaten and untested at 140, won a world title in a division he wasnt comfortable in and has wins over greats like kostya tszyu and JLC.

I'm trying but not succeeding.

[SweetPea]

I wouldn't put any of those guys in that article in the Hall of Fame yet. When it comes to HOFs in any sport, I think that the tougher the standards are, the better the HOF is and the more an induction means.

[HattonTheHammer]

I wouldn't put any of those guys in that article in the Hall of Fame yet. When it comes to HOFs in any sport, I think that the tougher the standards are, the better the HOF is and the more an induction means.

Exactly

when did the HOF become a recognition that any half decent world champion could have an argument to be in??

[C.J.Rock]

When cretins like Jose Suliaman, Don King & Bob Arum are inducted then the credibilty of the HOF suffers . Who is next Bob Lee & Panama Lewis ??

[p4pking]

When cretins like Jose Suliaman, Don King & Bob Arum are inducted then the credibilty of the HOF suffers . Who is next Bob Lee & Panama Lewis ??

Suliman I can probably agree with you on, though I don't know enough about his career... But Dong King and Bob Arum absolutely belong in the Hof based on it's standards. I would be all for it if they didn't induct people who weren't either fighters or trainers, who didn't personally compete. However since that's not the case, King and Arum have probably done more for the sport of boxing than any fighter by a long way. Of course they have screwed their share of people over, that comes with the territory... But Don King's first promotion was the rumble in the jungle, and since then has put together so many huge events and been probably the most recognizable face in the sport. Bob Arum even today is doing great things for the sport in many ways, he's putting his best talent in the fights people really want to see currently. I don't see how you can exclude guys like that based on their impact on the sport. Which is the same reason I'm pretty sure Gatti will get in, although so many technically superior fighters will not.

[amat]

There's little doubt in my mind that Casamayor is a hall of famer, one of the most successful Cubans of all time, I really don't think there is an argument against there. They are generous as to who they let in, so Casamayor I really don't see how you don't let him in. I think he's one of the greats of the generation.

[p4pking]

How the hell can someone even suggest tarver should be a HOFer??

He beat a 35 year old RJJ and a 36 year old glen johnson, had he of beaten them to at the turn of the decade sure this could be an interesting debate...but he didnt and it isnt.

I dont usually like to comment on potential world class boxers that have fought any lower than 126 as i dont pay attention those divisions..

Calderon looks to be a great little warrior from the few occasions ive seen of him, penalosa always reminded me of that guy who could of come to the party and made a hell of an impression but never quite managed it.

Hatton is 44-1 and his only defeat was by the single greatest p4p athlete of our generation.

If you suggest he shouldnt be a hall of famer you may as well suggest neither should manny pacquiao or marco antonio barrera!!

Pacquiao and Barrera have far higher quality wins than Hatton though, it's not just about who they lost to.

If the hall of fame was about out and out quality im sure you could find a perfectly good argument to suggest someone like ricardo mayorga should be in there.

But its a combination of many different factors. 44-1 is more than enough to argue for hall of fame status, add to that the fact he is still unbeaten and untested at 140, won a world title in a division he wasnt comfortable in and has wins over greats like kostya tszyu and JLC.

44-1 in itself means absolutely nothing. Tons of guys have gone almost undefeated past 50 fights and built up horribly padded records. The fact that he is "untested" at 140 is because the best fighters there long ago moved up to Welter. He basically failed to be succesful in doing so. I honestly have never heard more made of one jump in weight class than over Hatton, although obviously I wasn't there at the time in most cases. I don't think it gives him a complete out for the Collazo fight, as imo he clearly was a better WW against Mayweather who probably wouldn't have had so much trouble. I'm not really saying Hatton shouldn't go in the hall here, and tbo I didn't even read the article, but I'm just kind of playing devils advocate. What exactly makes Hatton a more worthy candidate than Tarver to the Hall? I just can't personally see it. Tarver beat Roy Jones Jr, who was past his best however had never been beaten and coming off winning the HW title(of course this worked against him but I'm just putting the win at the time in perspective), and still had enough to beat Tarver at his absolute best in a tough fight the first go. Then he split a couple tough fights with Glen Johnson who has more than proved his worth since, I thought Tarver actually won both of them. Lost to Hopkins, beat Clinton Woods. Before his big night he just had a bunch of aging names he'd beaten, Griffin, Harding, Johnson... Actually very similar to Hatton's career on paper or in form if you ask me. Makes me wonder how much that really has to do with it.

[ICB]

I think Hatton's record except for Tszyu, Castillo, is only decent. Not trying to be an ass here but im not sure if i would have him in the HOF just because of his two wins over past there prime fighters. And to even suggest that Hatton should be ranked higher than Barrera or Pacquiao is pure madness. But like others have said if Bazza can get in there why not Hatton ??

[Hulk]

How the hell can someone even suggest tarver should be a HOFer??

He beat a 35 year old RJJ and a 36 year old glen johnson, had he of beaten them to at the turn of the decade sure this could be an interesting debate...but he didnt and it isnt.

I dont usually like to comment on potential world class boxers that have fought any lower than 126 as i dont pay attention those divisions..

Calderon looks to be a great little warrior from the few occasions ive seen of him, penalosa always reminded me of that guy who could of come to the party and made a hell of an impression but never quite managed it.

Hatton is 44-1 and his only defeat was by the single greatest p4p athlete of our generation.

If you suggest he shouldnt be a hall of famer you may as well suggest neither should manny pacquiao or marco antonio barrera!!

Pacquiao and Barrera have far higher quality wins than Hatton though, it's not just about who they lost to.

If the hall of fame was about out and out quality im sure you could find a perfectly good argument to suggest someone like ricardo mayorga should be in there.

But its a combination of many different factors. 44-1 is more than enough to argue for hall of fame status, add to that the fact he is still unbeaten and untested at 140, won a world title in a division he wasnt comfortable in and has wins over greats like kostya tszyu and JLC.

Ricardo Mayorga SHOULD be in there! He's a living legend in my book. I love that guy.

[leftylee]

How the hell can someone even suggest tarver should be a HOFer??

He beat a 35 year old RJJ and a 36 year old glen johnson, had he of beaten them to at the turn of the decade sure this could be an interesting debate...but he didnt and it isnt.

I dont usually like to comment on potential world class boxers that have fought any lower than 126 as i dont pay attention those divisions..

Calderon looks to be a great little warrior from the few occasions ive seen of him, penalosa always reminded me of that guy who could of come to the party and made a hell of an impression but never quite managed it.

Hatton is 44-1 and his only defeat was by the single greatest p4p athlete of our generation.

If you suggest he shouldnt be a hall of famer you may as well suggest neither should manny pacquiao or marco antonio barrera!!

Pacquiao and Barrera have far higher quality wins than Hatton though, it's not just about who they lost to.

I'm a big hatton fan but I admit, those two deserve fully to be ranked above Hatton no question. Though Hatton should be definitely in there IMO.

[Bomp]

How the hell can someone even suggest tarver should be a HOFer??

He beat a 35 year old RJJ and a 36 year old glen johnson, had he of beaten them to at the turn of the decade sure this could be an interesting debate...but he didnt and it isnt.

I dont usually like to comment on potential world class boxers that have fought any lower than 126 as i dont pay attention those divisions..

Calderon looks to be a great little warrior from the few occasions ive seen of him, penalosa always reminded me of that guy who could of come to the party and made a hell of an impression but never quite managed it.

Hatton is 44-1 and his only defeat was by the single greatest p4p athlete of our generation.

If you suggest he shouldnt be a hall of famer you may as well suggest neither should manny pacquiao or marco antonio barrera!!

How could you NOT see the absolute similarity between Tarver and Hatton's breakthrough wins?

As for the hall, both guys are about the sam IMO at th moment though there's time for both guys to make a statement still in their careers.

HOF is very difficult to decide, as the guys Mick mentioned which I've read about elsewhere where the Asian fighters have been largely ignored, and then guys with so-so records getting in setting a precedent for something like 50% of world beltholders ever getting in.

I don't believe HOF is on relative achievement alone, otherwise Bazzo would never be there, but there is a spot IMO for guys like Bazzo and Gatti due to their rather unique contributions (Gatti's wars and Barry's popularity transcending the religious barrier in N.I.)

[Thread Stealer]

How the hell can someone even suggest tarver should be a HOFer??

He beat a 35 year old RJJ and a 36 year old glen johnson, had he of beaten them to at the turn of the decade sure this could be an interesting debate...but he didnt and it isnt.

I dont usually like to comment on potential world class boxers that have fought any lower than 126 as i dont pay attention those divisions..

Calderon looks to be a great little warrior from the few occasions ive seen of him, penalosa always reminded me of that guy who could of come to the party and made a hell of an impression but never quite managed it.

Hatton is 44-1 and his only defeat was by the single greatest p4p athlete of our generation.

If you suggest he shouldnt be a hall of famer you may as well suggest neither should manny pacquiao or marco antonio barrera!!

Tarver beat some other contenders at 175 besides the wins over Johnson and Jones (whom he also lost to). Tarver probably beat more top 10 contenders than Hatton did.

I probably wouldn't put Tarver in though.

I would rather see these guys get inducted into Canastota. They're all eligble as of now and are more deserving than the debates of recent/active fighters I often hear like Tarver, Gatti, etc..

Brian Mitchell
Esteban Dejesus
Marlon Starling
Donald Curry
Julian Jackson
Eddie Booker
Lloyd Marshall

Eddie Booker destroyed a prime/near-prime Archie Moore. He dropped him 5 times and Moore said it was the worst beating he took, and Booker was the best guy he faced along with Charley Burley. Booker beat two HOFers and a bunch of other contenders and quality fighters.

Lloyd Marshall beat like half a dozen Hall of Famers, including a beatdown of a bonafide ATG in Ezzard Charles whom he put down 8 times. He beat Burley. He beat Jake LaMotta.

Why aren't these guys in Canastota?