If these guys fought prime 4 prime on there best night who would have most Wins?

[Markusdarkus]

I think Holyfield would have beaten Tyson even on original date signed,If not for cancellation.

Me too, but that was 1991 and Tyson was already done by then

Tyson died when he left Rooney and Cayton tbh.

He still had good displays against Tubbs, Bruno and Ruddock but he was a shell. Wasnt moving his head and forgot his jab and worst of all was drinking heavy not training.

I still say if Rooney had been training Mike for the Douglas fight, Buster would not have gone 6rds.

[Spicoli]

I think Holyfield would have beaten Tyson even on original date signed,If not for cancellation.

Me too, but that was 1991 and Tyson was already done by then

Tyson died when he left Rooney and Cayton tbh.

He still had good displays against Tubbs, Bruno and Ruddock but he was a shell. Wasnt moving his head and forgot his jab and worst of all was drinking heavy not training.

I still say if Rooney had been training Mike for the Douglas fight, Buster would not have gone 6rds.

It's still hard to say for me on that night.It's important with whom and what a fighter surrounds himself with but ultimately,they can not make a fighter preform if a guys head is not there.IMo,Tyson was soft mentally and needed boosting up at times,making him easily influenced by King.He told Tyson what he wanted to hear,Rooney & Atlas told him what he needed to here....mostly.I do agree that Tyson was surrounding himself with complete tools specifically in the Douglas fight.....frigging fan boys,and a Hot water bottle, WTF indeed.Douglas was on point in there and I still say He could have given many,many a fine heavyweight hell that night.

[ICB]

I think Holyfield would have beaten Tyson even on original date signed,If not for cancellation.

Me too, but that was 1991 and Tyson was already done by then

Tyson died when he left Rooney and Cayton tbh.

He still had good displays against Tubbs, Bruno and Ruddock but he was a shell. Wasnt moving his head and forgot his jab and worst of all was drinking heavy not training.

I still say if Rooney had been training Mike for the Douglas fight, Buster would not have gone 6rds.

Tyson was always mentally weak regardless of what trainer he had or etc, i still don't get why people think Tyson is some sort of unbeatable fighting machine, i see him struggle against Tony Tucker and Tucker broke his hand after the 4th round, and i see him struggle with Tillis as well, what they both had in common was that they were both tall and good movers. I mean people base Tyson off two performances against Berbick, Spinks, which were both combined only 3 rounds. Do i see Tyson as a very good fighter ?? yes but i always thought he was very beatable you could time his head movement coming in he would bob and weave 3 times then start throwing punches, but because fighters were so scared of him they never went in with any gameplan and if they did it went out of the window as soon as the first bell rung.

[TitoFan]

When Lennox was motivated, he was nearly unbeatable. And he had the physical tools... size, reach, power, boxing skills. Yeah, he got KO'd by McCall and Rahman, but look how he came back.

Tyson did the best he could with his limited size, but prime Tyson would've still lost to prime (and motivated) Lewis.

Bowe was gifted, but an underachiever. If Golota hadn't been incredibly moronic, he would've KTFO'ed Bowe, instead of getting stupidly DQ'ed.

Holyfield was a warrior, but was still a pumped-up LHW and would lose to a prime Lewis.

Wlad? He's good and improving, but he's lucky there's not a prime Lewis around to fight. Otherwise, it'd be a different story.

I think it's Lewis.

[Spicoli]

When Lennox was motivated, he was nearly unbeatable. And he had the physical tools... size, reach, power, boxing skills. Yeah, he got KO'd by McCall and Rahman, but look how he came back.

Tyson did the best he could with his limited size, but prime Tyson would've still lost to prime (and motivated) Lewis.

Bowe was gifted, but an underachiever. If Golota hadn't been incredibly moronic, he would've KTFO'ed Bowe, instead of getting stupidly DQ'ed.

Holyfield was a warrior, but was still a pumped-up LHW and would lose to a prime Lewis.

Wlad? He's good and improving, but he's lucky there's not a prime Lewis around to fight. Otherwise, it'd be a different story.

I think it's Lewis.

Titofan I'm with you on Lewis all & all.He stikes me as One that gets more and more appreciation in hindsight & reflecting on career Imo.....for me anyway.His war with Mercer really made me turn the corner and realize that this man is for real and demands respect.....forget all of the stereo types about Euro Heavys.....he took that non-logic and tossed it in the trashcan.And yeh,he was also jobbed in the 1st Holyfield fight,Terrible call by the judges.

One thing though,We have got to put this Idea that Holyfield was just an oversized Lt.Hvy or Cruiser to bed.True,compared to many in history and even his own Era he was the lighter man......but only in literal #'s.He competed with The best big men of his time and I personally believe at his prime he could have more than held his own with any Heavy in History.No,not beat all of them but belongs right up there.......He was far more than just a big heart.Tremendous counter puncher,anvil Chin,underrated left hook,good sliding foot work and a self belief almost unequaled.

[TitoFan]

When Lennox was motivated, he was nearly unbeatable. And he had the physical tools... size, reach, power, boxing skills. Yeah, he got KO'd by McCall and Rahman, but look how he came back.

Tyson did the best he could with his limited size, but prime Tyson would've still lost to prime (and motivated) Lewis.

Bowe was gifted, but an underachiever. If Golota hadn't been incredibly moronic, he would've KTFO'ed Bowe, instead of getting stupidly DQ'ed.

Holyfield was a warrior, but was still a pumped-up LHW and would lose to a prime Lewis.

Wlad? He's good and improving, but he's lucky there's not a prime Lewis around to fight. Otherwise, it'd be a different story.

I think it's Lewis.

Titofan I'm with you on Lewis all & all.He stikes me as One that gets more and more appreciation in hindsight & reflecting on career Imo.....for me anyway.His war with Mercer really made me turn the corner and realize that this man is for real and demands respect.....forget all of the stereo types about Euro Heavys.....he took that non-logic and tossed it in the trashcan.And yeh,he was also jobbed in the 1st Holyfield fight,Terrible call by the judges.

One thing though,We have got to put this Idea that Holyfield was just an oversized Lt.Hvy or Cruiser to bed.True,compared to many in history and even his own Era he was the lighter man......but only in literal #'s.He competed with The best big men of his time and I personally believe at his prime he could have more than held his own with any Heavy in History.No,not beat all of them but belongs right up there.......He was far more than just a big heart.Tremendous counter puncher,anvil Chin,underrated left hook,good sliding foot work and a self belief almost unequaled.

Good points, Spicoli. I have to admit that I tend to slight Holyfield a little bit. Not that I dislike him or haven't enjoyed watching his fights. And I definitely admire his move into the HWs more than I do someone like Toney. One reason being that Holyfield was always in tremendous physical shape, whereas Toney's weight was mostly fat. I've always admired Holyfield's warrior mentality as well. Plus, he's always been a humble person, never arrogant.

But something inside my brain always makes me think of Holyfield in the light-heavyweight sense. Even his victories over Tyson, as amazing as they were, always struck me as kind of "fluke-ish". I can't see even a prime Holyfield ever beating a prime Mike Tyson. Maybe that's why I consider Holyfield a great "over-achiever". 'Cause he's gotten more mileage out of his size and skills than many other fighters would have.

[rjj tszyu]

When Lennox was motivated, he was nearly unbeatable. And he had the physical tools... size, reach, power, boxing skills. Yeah, he got KO'd by McCall and Rahman, but look how he came back.

Tyson did the best he could with his limited size, but prime Tyson would've still lost to prime (and motivated) Lewis.

Bowe was gifted, but an underachiever. If Golota hadn't been incredibly moronic, he would've KTFO'ed Bowe, instead of getting stupidly DQ'ed.

Holyfield was a warrior, but was still a pumped-up LHW and would lose to a prime Lewis.

Wlad? He's good and improving, but he's lucky there's not a prime Lewis around to fight. Otherwise, it'd be a different story.

I think it's Lewis.

Titofan I'm with you on Lewis all & all.He stikes me as One that gets more and more appreciation in hindsight & reflecting on career Imo.....for me anyway.His war with Mercer really made me turn the corner and realize that this man is for real and demands respect.....forget all of the stereo types about Euro Heavys.....he took that non-logic and tossed it in the trashcan.And yeh,he was also jobbed in the 1st Holyfield fight,Terrible call by the judges.

One thing though,We have got to put this Idea that Holyfield was just an oversized Lt.Hvy or Cruiser to bed.True,compared to many in history and even his own Era he was the lighter man......but only in literal #'s.He competed with The best big men of his time and I personally believe at his prime he could have more than held his own with any Heavy in History.No,not beat all of them but belongs right up there.......He was far more than just a big heart.Tremendous counter puncher,anvil Chin,underrated left hook,good sliding foot work and a self belief almost unequaled.

Good points, Spicoli. I have to admit that I tend to slight Holyfield a little bit. Not that I dislike him or haven't enjoyed watching his fights. And I definitely admire his move into the HWs more than I do someone like Toney. One reason being that Holyfield was always in tremendous physical shape, whereas Toney's weight was mostly fat. I've always admired Holyfield's warrior mentality as well. Plus, he's always been a humble person, never arrogant.

But something inside my brain always makes me think of Holyfield in the light-heavyweight sense. Even his victories over Tyson, as amazing as they were, always struck me as kind of "fluke-ish". I can't see even a prime Holyfield ever beating a prime Mike Tyson. Maybe that's why I consider Holyfield a great "over-achiever". 'Cause he's gotten more mileage out of his size and skills than many other fighters would have.

Holyfield is one of my favourite ever heavys (behind only Marciano and Ali) so maybe I'm being slightly biased but personally I think that he would have beaten Tyson at any point in their careers.

[SweetPea]

Good points, Spicoli. I have to admit that I tend to slight Holyfield a little bit. Not that I dislike him or haven't enjoyed watching his fights. And I definitely admire his move into the HWs more than I do someone like Toney. One reason being that Holyfield was always in tremendous physical shape, whereas Toney's weight was mostly fat. I've always admired Holyfield's warrior mentality as well. Plus, he's always been a humble person, never arrogant.

But something inside my brain always makes me think of Holyfield in the light-heavyweight sense. Even his victories over Tyson, as amazing as they were, always struck me as kind of "fluke-ish". I can't see even a prime Holyfield ever beating a prime Mike Tyson. Maybe that's why I consider Holyfield a great "over-achiever". 'Cause he's gotten more mileage out of his size and skills than many other fighters would have.

Holyfield is one of my favourite ever heavys (behind only Marciano and Ali) so maybe I'm being slightly biased but personally I think that he would have beaten Tyson at any point in their careers.

I think you're both right. Holyfield is an over-achiever and was never a truly dominant heavyweight champion (he struggled in his prime against Cooper, Foreman, Holmes, etc.)

On the other hand, I agree with rjj that Holyfield would have beaten Tyson no matter when they fought. Holyfield simply had Tyson's number and always will.

[IronDanLaw]

1.Lewis
2.Holyfield
3.Tyson
4.Bowe
5.Wlad

[Markusdarkus]

Me too, but that was 1991 and Tyson was already done by then

Tyson died when he left Rooney and Cayton tbh.

He still had good displays against Tubbs, Bruno and Ruddock but he was a shell. Wasnt moving his head and forgot his jab and worst of all was drinking heavy not training.

I still say if Rooney had been training Mike for the Douglas fight, Buster would not have gone 6rds.

Tyson was always mentally weak regardless of what trainer he had or etc, i still don't get why people think Tyson is some sort of unbeatable fighting machine, i see him struggle against Tony Tucker and Tucker broke his hand after the 4th round, and i see him struggle with Tillis as well, what they both had in common was that they were both tall and good movers. I mean people base Tyson off two performances against Berbick, Spinks, which were both combined only 3 rounds. Do i see Tyson as a very good fighter ?? yes but i always thought he was very beatable you could time his head movement coming in he would bob and weave 3 times then start throwing punches, but because fighters were so scared of him they never went in with any gameplan and if they did it went out of the window as soon as the first bell rung.

I look at Tyson 86-89 and find it really hard to find many heavyweights that would live with him left alone compete.

The only guys i see beating him are Holmes and Ali.

Thats just my opinion i was around in Tysons hayday he was a great fighter no doubt.

[CFH]

Lewis

Bowe

Holyfield/Tyson






Wlad

[El Kabong]

It's not really fair to throw Wlad in there just yet as he's currently in his prime, that being said I think he'd surprise a few of those guys and beat them....Riddick Bowe and Holyfield would have been the best options for him to beat. A Prime Tyson had a hell of a chin and power in both hands and was really quick but Wlad's jab could pose big problems to Iron Mike. Lewis is a guy he tries to emulate and it would be a chess match....Wlad had the better jab and Lewis had the better killer instinct.

I'd say Lewis would come out on top more often than anyone else

[frozensolid_702]

Prime for prime??


1. Mike Tyson - I'm talking about 80's Tyson...... not 90's post prison Tyson. The loss of Cus D'Amato (who was basiclly Tyson's Dad and was without a doubt his mentor) absolutely destroyed "Iron," Mike.

2. Riddick Bowe - Again.... we're talking about fighters when they were at their absolute peak. Riddick Bowe on his "A," game was damn near unbeatable.

3. Wladmir Klitchko - He was very flawed a while back, but Manny polished out those flaws and turned Klitchko into a monster. When you have a guy that big that has been blessed with so many physical attributes, and turn him into one of the most technically sound heavyweights in ages..... then you have an all time great.

4. Lennox Lewis - Another guy that was physically gifted but flawed......... until Manny got to him

5. Evander Holyfield - Great fighter until he moved to heavyweight. Then when he hit heavyweight, he was just a bigger version of Arturo Gatti. Very exciting because his defensive plan was to just let guys punch him in the face, but ultimately..... he won a few big fights at HW but lost to far too many lackluster opponents.

[Master]

Tyson beats them but may loose to Holyfield and Lewis in the second fight
Lewis may beat Tyson once but would loose to Holyfield at least once
Bowe gets beat by the above butbeats the ones below at least once
Holyfield was inconsistent but would give everyone a hard fight.
Wlad not in the same league

[HattonTheHammer]

Prime for prime??


1. Mike Tyson - I'm talking about 80's Tyson...... not 90's post prison Tyson. The loss of Cus D'Amato (who was basiclly Tyson's Dad and was without a doubt his mentor) absolutely destroyed "Iron," Mike.

2. Riddick Bowe - Again.... we're talking about fighters when they were at their absolute peak. Riddick Bowe on his "A," game was damn near unbeatable.

3. Wladmir Klitchko - He was very flawed a while back, but Manny polished out those flaws and turned Klitchko into a monster. When you have a guy that big that has been blessed with so many physical attributes, and turn him into one of the most technically sound heavyweights in ages..... then you have an all time great.

4. Lennox Lewis - Another guy that was physically gifted but flawed......... until Manny got to him

5. Evander Holyfield - Great fighter until he moved to heavyweight. Then when he hit heavyweight, he was just a bigger version of Arturo Gatti. Very exciting because his defensive plan was to just let guys punch him in the face, but ultimately..... he won a few big fights at HW but lost to far too many lackluster opponents.

I agree

if your going for consistency then lewis/holyfield will always get the vote. But tyson on his absoloute game was a vicious monster that probably would of had the likes of ali/louis/frazier etc eating canvas.

You cant train to get that kind of power in your shots, its just a natural gift that fighters like tyson/jones jr etc are born with!