Joel gets stopped - major surprise

[RozzySean]

So what are you proposing that's better?

Nothing... It's been there for years and any system can be potentially corrupted... Any system will be flawed... Heard about people cursing those alphabet belts?

So we have to live with my own "flawed" rankings that PAC is the no. 1 lightweight in the world right now... Agree ??
.

Reasons to use the ring over Alphabet belts

Alphabet titles don't rank other alphabet champs, ranks can be purchased, titles can be lost by not paying fees, of because an organization "feels like it". They rank people that haven't fought in a division

Reasons to use The Ring over fightnews.com and yahoo.com

fightnews and yahoo are based strictly on someone's opinion
they rank people that haven't fought in a division.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line: You still have not justified PAC at # 1.

The Ring is the most definitive way to define a champ

fightnews.com has no merit to define who is # 1 in a division.

YOU ARE A DAMN FANATIC.

Fightnews is good for one thing. Their ranking page will tell you in an instant all the alphabet titleholder the ranking of each idiotic organization. It will give you a decent idea of the state of a whole division. I wouldn't take there own ranking to mean much, but when I see a fight like Pavlik/Lockett announced, I go to fightnews to check the soup ranking before I make an indignant post on Saddo's. Fights like that might be stupid, but sometimes you gotta have them to keep a soup belt.

[XaduBoxer]

Nothing... It's been there for years and any system can be potentially corrupted... Any system will be flawed... Heard about people cursing those alphabet belts?

So we have to live with my own "flawed" rankings that PAC is the no. 1 lightweight in the world right now... Agree ??
.

Reasons to use the ring over Alphabet belts

Alphabet titles don't rank other alphabet champs, ranks can be purchased, titles can be lost by not paying fees, of because an organization "feels like it". They rank people that haven't fought in a division

Reasons to use The Ring over fightnews.com and yahoo.com

fightnews and yahoo are based strictly on someone's opinion
they rank people that haven't fought in a division.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line: You still have not justified PAC at # 1.

The Ring is the most definitive way to define a champ

fightnews.com has no merit to define who is # 1 in a division.

YOU ARE A DAMN FANATIC.

Fightnews is good for one thing. Their ranking page will tell you in an instant all the alphabet titleholder the ranking of each idiotic organization. It will give you a decent idea of the state of a whole division. I wouldn't take there own ranking to mean much, but when I see a fight like Pavlik/Lockett announced, I go to fightnews to check the soup ranking before I make an indignant post on Saddo's. Fights like that might be stupid, but sometimes you gotta have them to keep a soup belt.

I refer to Fightnews rankings more than the Ring rankings... I considered Fightnews overall rankings per division more sensible than the Ring... But as I pointed out earlier, each ranking system has its own flaws and not perfect...
.

[Chino]

Waaaaait a minute here. Are we being serious? Because Marquez looked good that makes Pac look bad? Let's be honest, technically, Pacquiao beat Marquez twice. If not for a judge's scoring error in the first match it wouldn't have been ruled a draw. And in the rematch Pac beat him

Isn't it said commonly that the best judges are the people in the audience (live or on tv)? Many many people, and even boxing experts, simply didn't see Pac winning the first and second time. Did Pac win? Like you said, "technically" because of the fight being ruled a victory for him but in reality...I doubt it. Like I said before, for me, Pac lost his "Mexicutioner" status after he faced Marquez twice.

[XaduBoxer]

Waaaaait a minute here. Are we being serious? Because Marquez looked good that makes Pac look bad? Let's be honest, technically, Pacquiao beat Marquez twice. If not for a judge's scoring error in the first match it wouldn't have been ruled a draw. And in the rematch Pac beat him

Isn't it said commonly that the best judges are the people in the audience (live or on tv)? Many many people, and even boxing experts, simply didn't see Pac winning the first and second time. Did Pac win? Like you said, "technically" because of the fight being ruled a victory for him but in reality...I doubt it. Like I said before, for me, Pac lost his "Mexicutioner" status after he faced Marquez twice.

It's advisable that we adhere to the official result since if we take into considerations the many "unofficial" and personal results, our discussions will lead to nowhere...
.

[brucelee]

Pac-fans...

Please don't generalize... Just say "Saddoboxer" not "Pac-fans"... OK?
.

I would if most (not all) Pac fans didn't act the same way.

[brucelee]

Sheesh, it's the same ol' aruguments between the same ol' people, with the same ol' battle-line clearly drawn long time ago, with one group trying to belittle the accomplishments of the others' boy, while trying to inflate the accomplishments of their own, and vice versa. Don't you guys ever get tired?

You've said it in a nutshell pacfan.

Pac is number 1 at lightweight or number 2 (with Campbell ahead of him) coz he defeated Marquez.No way is Marquez above Pac. End of argument.


You can talk and talk about Pacquiao not winning over Marquez during their second fight but that is not how history will judge it. Besides, it was too controversial that no one can really say Marquez clearly won that last fight. So we go to the JUDGES' cards. Pacquiao won and let it be.

Now that issue can be settled once and for all if Marquez fights Pacquaio after Pacquaio fights DLH.

Enough of belittling my boy. Let us demand for a TRILOGY and see who's the better fighter!!!

[Wayne]

Waaaaait a minute here. Are we being serious? Because Marquez looked good that makes Pac look bad? Let's be honest, technically, Pacquiao beat Marquez twice. If not for a judge's scoring error in the first match it wouldn't have been ruled a draw. And in the rematch Pac beat him. I'm not saying they shouldn't get it on again, they should, but Marquez's victory tonight should only enhance Pacquiao's resume, not downgrade it. If everybody on Pac's list had been a bum we'd laugh at the thought of putting him up as #1 P4P. So the reverse works. He's fought tough guys who have gone on to beat tough guys. So that moves him up, not down.

I just hope Pac doesn't derail his future by fighting Oscar.

I think Juan Manuel Marquez beat Manny Pacquiao twice and so do alot of people infact majorty of the boxing websites and journalists at ringside thought Marquez won.

Associated Press:114-113 Marquez
- Joe Santoliquito:115-112 Marquez
- Dan Rafael, ESPN.com: 114-113 Marquez
- Darius Ortiz, ESPN.com:114-113 Marquez
- Eric Raskin, ESPN.com:114-113 Marquez
- Brian Kenny, Friday Night Fights:115-112 Marquez
- Scott Mallon, Ring Magazine / Boxing News / The Fist / Boxing Digest:114-113 Marquez
- Yahoo Sports:115-112 Marquez
- Fight News.com:115-112 Marquez
- Steve Carp, Las Vegas Review Journal: 114-113 Marquez
- Norm Fraunheim, Arizona Republic:114-113 Marquez
- Rich Marrotta, Top Rank TV:114-113 Marquez
- Kieran Mulvaney, Reuters:114-113 Marquez
- DogHouseBoxing:114-113 Marquez
- Brett Conway, MaxBoxing.com:114-113 Marquez
- Rick Reeno, BoxingScene.com:114-113 Marquez
- Gary Randall, MaxBoxing.com:114-113 Marquez
- Bart Barry, 15Rounds.com:115-113 Marquez
- Bruce McTavish, International Judge:115-112 Marquez
- Francis Ochoa, Philippine Daily Inquirer:114-113 Marquez
- Scott Christ, BadLeftHook.com:114-113 Marquez
- William Detloff, The Ring Magazine:115-113 Marquez
- Ron Borges, TheSweetScience.com:114-113 Marquez
- Bert Sugar:Marquez
- Max Kellerman & Bob Papa:Marquez in both fights
- Nonito Donaire:114-113 Marquez
- Filipino Sports Analysts Ronnie Nathanielsz, Recah Trinidad and Ed Picson all picked Marquez.

But the 6 people whose opinions matter most have Pacquiao winning twice, if they get the math right. So going by that does that move Pacquiao up or down when Marquez continues beating guys?

[Wayne]

Firstly, I thought the stoppage may have been a touch premature does anyone else agree. I know he had taken a lot of shots but I thought he should have been given a count and maybe the chance to get back to his corner (it was close to the end of the round).

In saying that, Casamayor was seriously hurt. We are talking about a guy who's taken the best shots of Freitas, Corrales and Castillo and he gets stopped by Marquez moving up. That came as a major surprise to me.

What a performance.

Pacquaio can't call himself p4p number one until he fights this guy again. You would have to think Marquez victory over Cassa is far more impressive than Pac's against Diaz. Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa IMO...

"Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa" - this is highly debatable since David Diaz stopped Armando Santa Cruz who in turn was robbed against Casa...

Marquez win only solidified PAC's status as the no. 1 lightweight in the world and at the same time the no. 1 P4P best boxer in the world...

IMO, lightweight rankings should look like this right now:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Edwin Valero
6. Breidis Prescott
7. Michael Katsidis
8. Julio Diaz
9. David Diaz
10. Jesus Chavez

How is Pacquaio number 1? he moved up and fought David Diaz! Marques moved up and fought Joel Casamayor and stopped him.

I think it could be considered that Pac was number 1 before moving up. Then add to that that he DOMINATED Diaz. And David certainly wasn't a pushover.

[Wayne]

How is Pacquaio number 1? he moved up and fought David Diaz! Marques moved up and fought Joel Casamayor and stopped him.

PAC stopped former champ Diaz inside 9 rounds in total domination... JMM stopped Casa in the 11th with 2 judges having the fight even after 10 rounds...

The no. 1 lightweight spot could be a toss up between Pacquiao and Campbell right now... I considered PAC as the no. 1 lightweight due to his status in other rankings;

- current no. 1 P4P
- considered the no. 1 super featherweight before he jumped to lightweight

Think you should rate Pac at lightweight based on what he has done at lightweight. He's KO'd Diaz. Marquez has KO'd Casa. I'd have my lightweight ratings as...

1)Campbell
2)Marquez
3)Pac

In saying that I'd back Marquez and Pac to beat Campbell but as the unified champ, I think at this stage Campbell deserves to be no. 1.

This rating is strange for two reasons to me. Marquez never beat Pacquiao yet you rate him higher and Campbell is widely accepted as the number 1 for beating Juan Diaz, but nobody ever gave Diaz any credit when he had the belt. So how does Campbell get something out of nothing?

[Greig]

PAC stopped former champ Diaz inside 9 rounds in total domination... JMM stopped Casa in the 11th with 2 judges having the fight even after 10 rounds...

The no. 1 lightweight spot could be a toss up between Pacquiao and Campbell right now... I considered PAC as the no. 1 lightweight due to his status in other rankings;

- current no. 1 P4P
- considered the no. 1 super featherweight before he jumped to lightweight

Think you should rate Pac at lightweight based on what he has done at lightweight. He's KO'd Diaz. Marquez has KO'd Casa. I'd have my lightweight ratings as...

1)Campbell
2)Marquez
3)Pac

In saying that I'd back Marquez and Pac to beat Campbell but as the unified champ, I think at this stage Campbell deserves to be no. 1.

This rating is strange for two reasons to me. Marquez never beat Pacquiao yet you rate him higher and Campbell is widely accepted as the number 1 for beating Juan Diaz, but nobody ever gave Diaz any credit when he had the belt. So how does Campbell get something out of nothing?

Marquez beat Pacuiao twice.

[josef4334]

Firstly, I thought the stoppage may have been a touch premature does anyone else agree. I know he had taken a lot of shots but I thought he should have been given a count and maybe the chance to get back to his corner (it was close to the end of the round).

In saying that, Casamayor was seriously hurt. We are talking about a guy who's taken the best shots of Freitas, Corrales and Castillo and he gets stopped by Marquez moving up. That came as a major surprise to me.

What a performance.

Pacquaio can't call himself p4p number one until he fights this guy again. You would have to think Marquez victory over Cassa is far more impressive than Pac's against Diaz. Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa IMO...

"Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa" - this is highly debatable since David Diaz stopped Armando Santa Cruz who in turn was robbed against Casa...

Marquez win only solidified PAC's status as the no. 1 lightweight in the world and at the same time the no. 1 P4P best boxer in the world...

IMO, lightweight rankings should look like this right now:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Edwin Valero
6. Breidis Prescott
7. Michael Katsidis
8. Julio Diaz
9. David Diaz
10. Jesus Chavez

How is Pacquaio number 1? he moved up and fought David Diaz! Marques moved up and fought Joel Casamayor and stopped him.

why not? he fought david diaz and stopped him too. the same david diaz who stopped santa cruz, the same santa cruz who made casa look mediocre and got robbed. so whats your point? it could go both ways but the fact that pac beat jmm puts him at 1.

[killersheep]

"Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa" - this is highly debatable since David Diaz stopped Armando Santa Cruz who in turn was robbed against Casa...

Marquez win only solidified PAC's status as the no. 1 lightweight in the world and at the same time the no. 1 P4P best boxer in the world...

IMO, lightweight rankings should look like this right now:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Edwin Valero
6. Breidis Prescott
7. Michael Katsidis
8. Julio Diaz
9. David Diaz
10. Jesus Chavez

How is Pacquaio number 1? he moved up and fought David Diaz! Marques moved up and fought Joel Casamayor and stopped him.

why not? he fought david diaz and stopped him too. the same david diaz who stopped santa cruz, the same santa cruz who made casa look mediocre and got robbed. so whats your point? it could go both ways but the fact that pac beat jmm puts him at 1.

p4p yes, at 135 it's irrelevant