God help me, I've become a social democrat

[Trainer Monkey]

I'm moving in the opposite direction as I get older. More and more conservative all the time. I used to be fairly Liberal, not anymore.


I'm a cranky old bastard!LOL

Im finding the same thing in myself. Having lived in a country where income tax is less than 10% for so long, I find myself questioning the sense in countries like the UK where the tax band is so high.

I still think Im pretty liberal but when it comes to issues like how much tax Im paying, then I suppose I have become much more self centred.

Roads dont build themselves
We all do better when we all do better
Now I dont really like paying for stupid wars,tax breaks for rich people,intrest on national debt.
But I think I can pony for the greater public intrest,Ive certainly benefited from it,every time I fire up my Jeep

[Gandalf]

I'm moving in the opposite direction as I get older. More and more conservative all the time. I used to be fairly Liberal, not anymore.


I'm a cranky old bastard!LOL

Im finding the same thing in myself. Having lived in a country where income tax is less than 10% for so long, I find myself questioning the sense in countries like the UK where the tax band is so high.

I still think Im pretty liberal but when it comes to issues like how much tax Im paying, then I suppose I have become much more self centred.

Roads dont build themselves
We all do better when we all do better
Now I dont really like paying for stupid wars,tax breaks for rich people,intrest on national debt.
But I think I can pony for the greater public intrest,Ive certainly benefited from it,every time I fire up my Jeep

I agree to an extent. Infratructure and the like is fundamental. But Korea has good roads, services and pretty much everybody is covered with health insurance. I cannot complain about those aspects of life here and all with a relatively low tax rate. There is too much bureaucracy in Western governments. And probably too much welfare, especially in the UK.

You dont see too many single mothers in Korea. And Im quite sure thats one reason my tax is so low.

[Trainer Monkey]

Im finding the same thing in myself. Having lived in a country where income tax is less than 10% for so long, I find myself questioning the sense in countries like the UK where the tax band is so high.

I still think Im pretty liberal but when it comes to issues like how much tax Im paying, then I suppose I have become much more self centred.

Roads dont build themselves
We all do better when we all do better
Now I dont really like paying for stupid wars,tax breaks for rich people,intrest on national debt.
But I think I can pony for the greater public intrest,Ive certainly benefited from it,every time I fire up my Jeep

I agree to an extent. Infratructure and the like is fundamental. But Korea has good roads, services and pretty much everybody is covered with health insurance. I cannot complain about those aspects of life here and all with a relatively low tax rate. There is too much bureaucracy in Western governments. And probably too much welfare, especially in the UK.

You dont see too many single mothers in Korea. And Im quite sure thats one reason my tax is so low.

Odd that people allways bitch about "single mom's" but rarely have quite so much fury reserved for "dead beat dad's"

[Gandalf]

Roads dont build themselves
We all do better when we all do better
Now I dont really like paying for stupid wars,tax breaks for rich people,intrest on national debt.
But I think I can pony for the greater public intrest,Ive certainly benefited from it,every time I fire up my Jeep

I agree to an extent. Infratructure and the like is fundamental. But Korea has good roads, services and pretty much everybody is covered with health insurance. I cannot complain about those aspects of life here and all with a relatively low tax rate. There is too much bureaucracy in Western governments. And probably too much welfare, especially in the UK.

You dont see too many single mothers in Korea. And Im quite sure thats one reason my tax is so low.

Odd that people allways bitch about "single mom's" but rarely have quite so much fury reserved for "dead beat dad's"

Anybody who becomes a parent should take responsibility. Dad's especially so. Its a travesty they so often dont. I dont know about life in the US but I do know the UK has become a bit of a farce with the number of children being supported by welfare, and absent or lazy Dad's don't help a bit.

I dont feel comfortable subsidising that through my taxes. I would like to have a child of my own someday and pay for its upbringing myself. Not paying extortionate tax rates for the benefits of all others to become parents might help facilitate that.

The concept of self responsibility is perhaps where I have become more right wing as the years have gone on.

Generally I am still left wing though. I believe in Unions, universal health care, decent pension coverage (for those that work hard). But I do think welfare can go too far.

[Trainer Monkey]

I agree to an extent. Infratructure and the like is fundamental. But Korea has good roads, services and pretty much everybody is covered with health insurance. I cannot complain about those aspects of life here and all with a relatively low tax rate. There is too much bureaucracy in Western governments. And probably too much welfare, especially in the UK.

You dont see too many single mothers in Korea. And Im quite sure thats one reason my tax is so low.

Odd that people allways bitch about "single mom's" but rarely have quite so much fury reserved for "dead beat dad's"

Anybody who becomes a parent should take responsibility. Dad's especially so. Its a travesty they so often dont. I dont know about life in the US but I do know the UK has become a bit of a farce with the number of children being supported by welfare, and absent or lazy Dad's don't help a bit.

I dont feel comfortable subsidising that through my taxes. I would like to have a child of my own someday and pay for its upbringing myself. Not paying extortionate tax rates for the benefits of all others to become parents might help facilitate that.

The concept of self responsibility is perhaps where I have become more right wing as the years have gone on.

Generally I am still left wing though. I believe in Unions, universal health care, decent pension coverage (for those that work hard). But I do think welfare can go too far.

Not in the states
We've gutted the whole system,if your ass is hoping for welfare,your major league screwed blued and tattooed
We've cut enforcement to go after dead beat dads for child support,we've cut LIHEAP,we've cut CHIPS,and if you are a single mom on welfare,we'll force you to neglect your child and get a job that doesnt pay as much as welfare,which pays dirt all.
Welfare reform,can get seriously mean spirited,and we're the shining example of it
But if you want us to blow some stuff up,no problem,helping people is too expensive,killing them is okey dokey

[Gandalf]

Odd that people allways bitch about "single mom's" but rarely have quite so much fury reserved for "dead beat dad's"

Anybody who becomes a parent should take responsibility. Dad's especially so. Its a travesty they so often dont. I dont know about life in the US but I do know the UK has become a bit of a farce with the number of children being supported by welfare, and absent or lazy Dad's don't help a bit.

I dont feel comfortable subsidising that through my taxes. I would like to have a child of my own someday and pay for its upbringing myself. Not paying extortionate tax rates for the benefits of all others to become parents might help facilitate that.

The concept of self responsibility is perhaps where I have become more right wing as the years have gone on.

Generally I am still left wing though. I believe in Unions, universal health care, decent pension coverage (for those that work hard). But I do think welfare can go too far.

Not in the states
We've gutted the whole system,if your ass is hoping for welfare,your major league screwed blued and tattooed
We've cut enforcement to go after dead beat dads for child support,we've cut LIHEAP,we've cut CHIPS,and if you are a single mom on welfare,we'll force you to neglect your child and get a job that doesnt pay as much as welfare,which pays dirt all.
Welfare reform,can get seriously mean spirited,and we're the shining example of it
But if you want us to blow some stuff up,no problem,helping people is too expensive,killing them is okey dokey

That was my perception of how the US has gone. I could never get as right wing as to ever suggest the Republicans should ever get in. America needs change and things are never going to change for the better under McCain. America is at a scary place, and change is better than no change now.

[Trainer Monkey]

Anybody who becomes a parent should take responsibility. Dad's especially so. Its a travesty they so often dont. I dont know about life in the US but I do know the UK has become a bit of a farce with the number of children being supported by welfare, and absent or lazy Dad's don't help a bit.

I dont feel comfortable subsidising that through my taxes. I would like to have a child of my own someday and pay for its upbringing myself. Not paying extortionate tax rates for the benefits of all others to become parents might help facilitate that.

The concept of self responsibility is perhaps where I have become more right wing as the years have gone on.

Generally I am still left wing though. I believe in Unions, universal health care, decent pension coverage (for those that work hard). But I do think welfare can go too far.

Not in the states
We've gutted the whole system,if your ass is hoping for welfare,your major league screwed blued and tattooed
We've cut enforcement to go after dead beat dads for child support,we've cut LIHEAP,we've cut CHIPS,and if you are a single mom on welfare,we'll force you to neglect your child and get a job that doesnt pay as much as welfare,which pays dirt all.
Welfare reform,can get seriously mean spirited,and we're the shining example of it
But if you want us to blow some stuff up,no problem,helping people is too expensive,killing them is okey dokey

That was my perception of how the US has gone. I could never get as right wing as to ever suggest the Republicans should ever get in. America needs change and things are never going to change for the better under McCain. America is at a scary place, and change is better than no change now.

The States are WAY different then when I was a kid,and its gotten mean. It used to be,you just didnt go in "those neighborhoods" now we pretend they just dont exist.
And one thing I freaking loathe is people in this country who go on about how poor they grew up,and then when you ask them,"Did your family ever take welfare" and they awnser"Yeah we were poor"
And then you find yourself thinking,"But you want to cut it to the bone for other people?". I got mine and screw you,WELCOME TO AMERICA

[El Kabong]

There is too much bureaucracy in Western governments. And probably too much welfare, especially in the UK.

You dont see too many single mothers in Korea. And Im quite sure thats one reason my tax is so low.

Yes there IS too much bureaucracy in western governments. And there is no PROBABLY about it there is WAAAAAAY too much welfare ESPECIALLY in places like England and Canada!


As for single mothers....when the government isn't picking up the tab it's not the greatest life choice to keep popping out little bastard kids.

Trainer you're playing revisionist history if you think Americans ever liked it when people got something for nothing ESPECIALLY if it was a person of a different ethnicity....watch Gangs of New York again, it has ALWAYS been like this.

[Trainer Monkey]

There is too much bureaucracy in Western governments. And probably too much welfare, especially in the UK.

You dont see too many single mothers in Korea. And Im quite sure thats one reason my tax is so low.

Yes there IS too much bureaucracy in western governments. And there is no PROBABLY about it there is WAAAAAAY too much welfare ESPECIALLY in places like England and Canada!


As for single mothers....when the government isn't picking up the tab it's not the greatest life choice to keep popping out little bastard kids.

Trainer you're playing revisionist history if you think Americans ever liked it when people got something for nothing ESPECIALLY if it was a person of a different ethnicity....watch Gangs of New York again, it has ALWAYS been like this.

Since you used a work of fiction,Ill use groundbreaking opinion piece from the time "The Other America"
Or would you prefer Upton Sinclairs "The Jungle"
The "Auotbiography of Mother Jones"?
Sorry Lyle,your historically inaccurate,and historically ignorant
Now if you care to bitch about Welfare Moms,complain about the tax abatements Mercedes Benz got to open a plant in the states
It was significantly more costly

[El Kabong]

The Gangs of New York NONFICTION by Herbert Asbury...the movie yes was fiction but the backdrop of racial tension, draft riots, etc was 100% true.

Pork barrel spending and tax cuts to win over businesses happen all the time and have happened all the time...it's nothing new Trainer hell there is pork in the bailout bill they just passed. And please keep it up with the name calling I do appreciate it...almost as much as I appreciate people complaining about their lives and blaming everyone else for their standing in life.

[Trainer Monkey]

The Gangs of New York NONFICTION by Herbert Asbury...the movie yes was fiction but the backdrop of racial tension, draft riots, etc was 100% true.

Pork barrel spending and tax cuts to win over businesses happen all the time and have happened all the time...it's nothing new Trainer hell there is pork in the bailout bill they just passed. And please keep it up with the name calling I do appreciate it...almost as much as I appreciate people complaining about their lives and blaming everyone else for their standing in life.

Part of the back drop was lassiez faire economics,which is what is being pushed by the current Republican Party
So you may wish to re-think your ringing endorsement,because regardless of wether you think its fiction or fact,it says bluntly that when the wealthy get what they want crime and lawlessness become wanton.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement of republican politics

[El Kabong]

I love CAPITALISM, that's all I have to tell you...if you want to call it lassiez faire if you want. If you have trouble with it move to China

[CFH]

There is too much bureaucracy in Western governments. And probably too much welfare, especially in the UK.

You dont see too many single mothers in Korea. And Im quite sure thats one reason my tax is so low.

Yes there IS too much bureaucracy in western governments. And there is no PROBABLY about it there is WAAAAAAY too much welfare ESPECIALLY in places like England and Canada!


As for single mothers....when the government isn't picking up the tab it's not the greatest life choice to keep popping out little bastard kids.

Trainer you're playing revisionist history if you think Americans ever liked it when people got something for nothing ESPECIALLY if it was a person of a different ethnicity....watch Gangs of New York again, it has ALWAYS been like this.

You don't know jack shit about your own country, so I'm going to assume you don't know anything about mine either.

The amount of welfare distributed in Canada is a fraction of what your joke of a government has spent on an internationally condemned illegal war in Iraq which has resulted in the maiming and deaths of tens of thousands of people, each of whom has the same value as yourself.

[El Kabong]

You don't know jack shit about your own country, so I'm going to assume you don't know anything about mine either.

The amount of welfare distributed in Canada is a fraction of what your joke of a government has spent on an internationally condemned illegal war in Iraq which has resulted in the maiming and deaths of tens of thousands of people, each of whom has the same value as yourself.

Canada has a fraction of the people of the US.


Oooh the war in Iraq has offended Canada alert the media

[CFH]

You don't know jack shit about your own country, so I'm going to assume you don't know anything about mine either.

The amount of welfare distributed in Canada is a fraction of what your joke of a government has spent on an internationally condemned illegal war in Iraq which has resulted in the maiming and deaths of tens of thousands of people, each of whom has the same value as yourself.

Canada has a fraction of the people of the US.


Oooh the war in Iraq has offended Canada alert the media

We do have less people than the US. Very astute. You said we spend "too much" money on welfare, that statement made no qualifications about population size.

The Iraq war has not offended Canada, it has however almost universally disgusted anyone with a brain worldwide, it has also resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of people,

One could even make the assertion that the thousands of American soldiers coming home in body bags and the tens of thousands coming home without limbs and faces are more deserving of their lot than the innocent Iraqi's who have died, considering those same soldiers freely (economics and governmental propaganda aside) signed on to enforce the will of the people they are representing, the same people who started this war without any legitimate cause.

Have you ever considered how shameful this war is to the memory of those who died on 9/11?