Bute v. Andrade Poll

[C.J.Rock]

Canada rivals Germany for corruption it seems. They make the Vegas crooks look like angels

[CFH]

Canada rivals Germany for corruption it seems. They make the Vegas crooks look like angels

Because of one fight? I can't believe I'm defending Quebec/Montreal here, but there is a long history of shady decisions and outright robberies in German, one bad ref does not make Montreal on par with Germany. The only two fights I can think of with shady decisions in Montreal are Bute - Andrade and Ngoudjo - Bailey (which was a very close fight).

[DC Amateur Boxing]

Amidst all the cries of 'fix' and 'corruption!' it does need to be stated that Bute did indeed get up, he beat the count and would probably have hung on to his belt as there was no time left in the round.

I also completely and 100% disagree with anyone who says the fight should have been stopped, to stop Bute when he had beaten the count, after winning virtually all the preceeding rounds, and with around 5 seconds to go in the fight would have been an even greater farcical act of incompetence..

I think ultimately Andrade in not going and staying the neutral corner shares as much responsibility as the ref in the long count, the fact is if he had gone straight to the neutral corner and stayed there the ref wouldn't have delayed the count.

Where did you see Andrade not in the neurtral corner? Even when you start the count when Bute was down, the count was still slow when the ref picked up the count from the timekeeper. . .

[Poom]

Regardless of the knockdown, just before this bute was all over the place and seemed to not be able to defend himself, it should have been stopped because he was just clinching and hanging on for dear life,


I feel disgusted because i really like Andrade and feel very bad for him. Look at the way he went and made things ok with the ref after too, what a great sportsman.

[DC Amateur Boxing]

I'm just playing Devil's Advoccate here but Bute probably would've won anyway whether he was counted correctly or not...

There was literally 2 seconds left when Bute went down. Even if the ref had counted him to 10 correctly, then allowed him to continue fighting the final bell would have gone before Andrade got to him again.

Couldn't be saved by the bell in the last round of this fight (per rules). If he was unable to continue after a real 10 count, fight would have been stopped. By my 10 count, he was wobbling and not even able to face the referee at that time. Now, most refs wouldn't have stopped it unless he was not able to stand up. . .but this ref was so blatant with his cheating - it's a shame.

[Rantcatrat]

I'm just playing Devil's Advoccate here but Bute probably would've won anyway whether he was counted correctly or not...

There was literally 2 seconds left when Bute went down. Even if the ref had counted him to 10 correctly, then allowed him to continue fighting the final bell would have gone before Andrade got to him again.

Couldn't be saved by the bell in the last round of this fight (per rules). If he was unable to continue after a real 10 count, fight would have been stopped. By my 10 count, he was wobbling and not even able to face the referee at that time. Now, most refs wouldn't have stopped it unless he was not able to stand up. . .but this ref was so blatant with his cheating - it's a shame.

Author calls Wright's actions a perception problem:
“Fighting Words” – Oy, Canada: Bute-Andrade Controversy - Boxing News

[Wayne]

3 things wrong with that fight and all stem from the ref:

1. The extraordinary amount of clinching going on and the lack of the ref warning about it. He warned Bute 2 times in the 11th and stated he would take a point but didn't.
2. The slow count after the knockdown. It bought Bute time and ate up precious seconds.
3. The ref's zeal at getting Andrade back into a neutral corner. I've seen in many fights after a knockdown where a fighter walks around to that degree. What Andrade did was not extraordinary and given the circumstances it wasn't a big deal.

That being said, I thought Bute put on a spectacular performance when he actually boxed, showing power and speed and I would like to see him a second time (without all the clinching). He had nowhere near the poise of Mikkel Kessler who fought pretty much the same fight except Kessler didn't tire out.

[montsegur1234]

A few points:

- Interesting fact: Marlon B. Wright, the referee for the fight, is a personal friend of Howard Grant's (Montreal native), Andrade's trainer.

- The fight result is very controversial in Montreal. On Montreal Talk Radio, a majority of listeners say Andrade was robbed. A caller said it was the most egregious boxing outcome he ever saw.

- A boxer must go to the neutral corner when his opponent is on the ground as result of a punch. He told Andrade to go to the neutral corner three times.

Controversy or not:

- the referree respected the neutral corner rule
- Bute would have gotten up in any event
- Bute completly dominated the fight
- The only reason Bute went down was because he wanted the give the crowd a show in the 12th, but he did get back up
- Bute would probably win against Andrade again
- Calling the Montreal boxing scene corrupt is laughable (again, Marlon B. Wright is a personal friend of Howard Grant's and he could actually have been more severe towards Andrade (elbows etc.)

[hfahrenheit]

[quote=montsegur1234;623190]

Controversy or not:

- The only reason Bute went down was because he wanted the give the crowd a show in the 12th, but he did get back up

You have to love conjecture presented as fact--

montsegur1234, you're truly an idiot. Bute went down because he got KTFO.

[Nifereili]

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[ICB]

[quote=hfahrenheit;623196]

Controversy or not:

- The only reason Bute went down was because he wanted the give the crowd a show in the 12th, but he did get back up

You have to love conjecture presented as fact--

montsegur1234, you're truly an idiot. Bute went down because he got KTFO.

No he is right Bute did exchange punches in the 12th round to give the crowd a show, he almost payed for it. It was a good learning experience for him that you never have the fight in the bag until all 12 rounds have been completed.

[hfahrenheit]

[quote=ICB;623204]

You have to love conjecture presented as fact--

montsegur1234, you're truly an idiot. Bute went down because he got KTFO.

No he is right Bute did exchange punches in the 12th round to give the crowd a show, he almost payed for it. It was a good learning experience for him that you never have the fight in the bag until all 12 rounds have been completed.

No, you're saying what he should have: "he exchanged punches in the 12th to give the crowd a show."

He said "he went down just to give the crowd a show..." -he's attempting to diminish the knock down.

And, I disagree with you both with your usage of the word ALMOST... he traded punches and got put on the canvas. That's paying for it; there's no almost about it.

[ICB]

[quote=hfahrenheit;623208]

No he is right Bute did exchange punches in the 12th round to give the crowd a show, he almost payed for it. It was a good learning experience for him that you never have the fight in the bag until all 12 rounds have been completed.

No, you're saying what he should have: "he exchanged punches in the 12th to give the crowd a show."

He said "he went down just to give the crowd a show..." -he's attempting to diminish the knock down.

And, I disagree with you both with your usage of the word ALMOST... he traded punches and got put on the canvas. That's paying for it; there's no almost about it.

Ahh my bad i did misread that i agree with you on that is indeed ridiculous, but i disagree with you that Bute deserved to lose. The timer in the round was up so regardless of the ref. Ridiculously telling off Andrade about not being in the neutral corner is irrelvant. Because Andrade wouldn't have got another chance to finish Bute.

The only thing that should be controversial with hindsight, is whether or not the ref should of let Bute finish the fight. Bute did get up at the count 8, he looked at his corner twice so he was still aware, and he responded to the ref.

No rules were actually broken although the ref did clearly use the rules to his advantage, but if Andrade would of been given the fight with no time left in the round. I think that would of been a traversity IMO, it would be Julio Cesar Chavez vs Meldrick Taylor all over again.

[montsegur1234]

[quote=hfahrenheit;623196]

Controversy or not:

- The only reason Bute went down was because he wanted the give the crowd a show in the 12th, but he did get back up

You have to love conjecture presented as fact--

montsegur1234, you're truly an idiot. Bute went down because he got KTFO.

No need to insult me. I don't think the context of a boxing forum warrants such exegesis of a banal comment.
And if you want to have a discussion on the epistemology of causality, let me know.

[montsegur1234]

[quote=ICB;623211]

No, you're saying what he should have: "he exchanged punches in the 12th to give the crowd a show."

He said "he went down just to give the crowd a show..." -he's attempting to diminish the knock down.

And, I disagree with you both with your usage of the word ALMOST... he traded punches and got put on the canvas. That's paying for it; there's no almost about it.

Ahh my bad i did misread that i agree with you on that is indeed ridiculous, but i disagree with you that Bute deserved to lose. The timer in the round was up so regardless of the ref. Ridiculously telling off Andrade about not being in the neutral corner is irrelvant. Because Andrade wouldn't have got another chance to finish Bute.

The only thing that should be controversial with hindsight, is whether or not the ref should of let Bute finish the fight. Bute did get up at the count 8, he looked at his corner twice so he was still aware, and he responded to the ref.

No rules were actually broken although the ref did clearly use the rules to his advantage, but if Andrade would of been given the fight with no time left in the round. I think that would of been a traversity IMO, it would be Julio Cesar Chavez vs Meldrick Taylor all over again.

Hey guys,

Of course I meant that Bute could have averted the risk of being knocked out with more disciplined boxing in the 12th. But he was indeed knocked out. However, I understand how my comment could have been interpreted differently. But people must say a lot of outlandish stuff on this forum for you guys to think this lol.

All I am saying is that Bute would have won the fight in any event.
It would have been another story altogether if the knockout had occurred 1 min before.