After watching a prime Roy Jones on TV last night he was far from unbeatable.

[Taeth]

HERE IT IS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjvBq...eature=related
Chris Collin, Nigel Benn, Frankie Lyle, and Hopkins was hesistent
but they wouldn't fight him like I said.

[Spicoli]

I'm sorry but what a bunch of Gimmicky circus crap.I remember HBO was all over Roy's shaft.Brannon had no business being a mandatory and point of fact is Roydid not Need to risk more with this sort of warm partnership afforded to himself.

And what was up with Tony Pages reference to a wheel chair,"is that your only chance of respect" Set-up

[Mr140]

Look teath have to disagree Oscar looked not so super because his competion was leagues above Roys i mean come on now look at the wins. Even with Oscars Loses he has a way better resume then Roy does look how many wins he has over champions or former champions way better.

[Taeth]

I'm sorry but what a bunch of Gimmicky circus crap.I remember HBO was all over Roy's shaft.Brannon had no business being a mandatory and point of fact is Roydid not Need to risk more with this sort of warm partnership afforded to himself.

And what was up with Tony Pages reference to a wheel chair,"is that your only chance of respect" Set-up

Nobody else would fight him. Did you watch the whole thing? Why wouldn't HBO be able to get a fight for 7 figures with Nigel Benn or Chris Collins or Frankie Lyles? And this was just an example fo it. B-Hop was too pig headed, he didn't deserve the fight with Roy with him getting 50/50, but he wouldn't fight Roy unless he got that. It wasn't just B-Hop's fault, but as a guy trying to face the p4p #1, you have to make the sacrifices especially if they are the bigger draw.

Mayweather was p4p #1 yet he fought Oscar at 154, he fought Gatti at 140 in his home town.

Its the less known guys job to make the fight, not the more popular guy. If you want to call somebody out you have to make the sacrifice. Also I don't think Roy was that much bigger then Bernad, I just think Bernard worked very hard to stay at MW, lately Bernard has been just as big as Roy ever was at LHW.

I am not trying to argue that Roy JOnes Jr. is unbeatable. I think p4p Ray Robinson beats him, I think Floyd Mayweather makes a good arguement, I think Pernell Whitaker style wise gives him a good fight. I think Sandy Saddler p4p, Roberto Duran, Leonard, Hearns, all p4p give Roy a good fight. Among others.

But what I am saying is that Roy was the best of the 90's Though his skill level was comparable to some, I think the one test of how good they are is how long, how heigh in weight they can climb and maintain that dominance. However in the 90's I think there were two fighters who were relatively close to Roy and that was Hopkins and Whitaker. I think Dela Hoya and Mosley and Ricardo Lopez followed after them. In the 2000's the closest guys have been Mayweather(who I have on the Pernell/Hopkins level) and Winky Wright(who I have between MOsly/Oscar and the top level). Then there is Pacquaio and then Joe Calzaghe.

Roy Jones jr though had the biggest tool set both physically and in terms of effectiveness. I think he is a chin or a win away from being a p4p great(I mean top 20).

[Mr140]

Well if we are going to judge it by the weight thing i would have to say Evander was a better fighter then Roy when it came pound for pound. Not only did he start at the weight 175 but moved up to win the Hw champsionship more then anyother heavyweight has ever done before. Some times he was 30 pounds less then the guys he was fighting. Some of those guys were over 70 pounds heavier then his starting divsion was. But i never see Evander in the top 10 which is fine because he should be in like the top 20 when we are talking pound for pound he is that.

[Mr140]

Also never answered my question do you think Roy competion was better then Oscars and even with Oscars loses he still has better overall wins.

[Taeth]

Obviously Oscar De La Hoya had the best opposition since probably Muhammad Ali, but he didn't look that great against anybody near his caliber, yet Roy beat Hopkins quite easily, and he dominated Mike MaCcallum, James Toney, and Reggie Johnson. My point is that Oscar didn't dominate his better competition the way Roy did. He beat them, but Whitaker and JCC were older and much naturally smaller then Oscar. Had a rough fight with Quartey, a rough fight with Vargas, Mosley beat him. I think OScar was always a great fighter, but when he fought his best opposition he never stood out, yet Roy fought better, and dominated more against better opposition.
He didn't even try that hard against MaCcallum and won virtually every round, a guy who went on to fight very well against James Toney. Look what Roy did to MOntell Griffin in their rematch. Montell Griffin totally outboxed James Toney. He also fought a really good fighter in Virgill Hill, guess what happened? 4th round ko. He fought a good fighter in Julio Gonzalez, beat him up for 12 rounds and knocked him down three times. He fought a good fighter in Eric Harding who had just outboxed Antonio Tarver, Roy beat him in a tough fight, but Harding quit, and Jones was ahead by 2 to 6 rounds on scorecards. He beat a good fighter in Clinton Woods who was almost as good as Glen Johnson, but people thought he should retire because Roy dominated him so thoroughly. Roy then went up and beat John Ruiz(who I believe beat Evander HOlyfield) and won almost every round including hurting John Ruiz. He came back down beat Tarver after badly weight draining himself. Then the bad stuff happened. But before that these were all good fighters, who continued to be good and he made them look like Oscar made club fighters look.

People need to stop underrating Roy's opposition he fought the best guys at 175, except Dariusz who wouldn't come over to face him(A guy Juilio Gonzalez beat twice). But you can't unify the belt without fighting goood fighters and Roy had to beat Reggie Johnson, Virgill Hill, Loui Devalle, and Montell Griffin to unify the belt those are bad fighters.

Evander Holyfield never weighed 175 for a fight, and he fought around LHW 4 times, Roy Jones Jr fought at 154 for 20 some fights. That would make Roy at 154 pounder naturally if you are going by that. In fact Roy fought more fights at 154 then Holyfield fought at 175ish and crusierweight combined. I think Evander Holyfield at heavyweight was equivalent to Roy at 175, but look what happened

I felt Quawi beat him the first time they fought at cruiserweight
Riddick Bowe beat him in their trilogy
Michael Moorer even beat him.
He beat an old George Foreman who wasn't bad, but wasn't even close to what he was. He beat shell of the real Mike Tyson, He beat Buster Douglas, but besides the Tyson fight was largely a joke, he fought a good Ray Mercer, but that was good close fight. Lennox Lewis stomped him the first time, and the second time I still felt Lennox won.

Then at the end of the 90's Evander lost twice IMO to Lennox Lewis.

He isn't even in the arguement though, as great as he is. I have never heard of anybody who thought Evander HOlyfield was as good p4p as Roy Jones Jr.

Many people would argue Holyfield was one of the guys Roy Jones jr could go up to heavyweight and beat.

Make an arguement for Pernell Whitaker if you want, but otherwise in the 90's I don't there is another candidate that comes close.

[ross]

Roy beat Hopkins quite easily,

People need to stop underrating Roy's opposition he fought the best guys at 175, except Dariusz who wouldn't come over to face him(A guy Juilio Gonzalez beat twice).

Roy didnt beat Hopkins easy and why would Dariusz want to come over to fight a guy that Tarver beat Twice?

[ross]

I remember in 96 when the ring did a suppliment on Mike Tyson, with pictures of him at home and with his white tigers, they were interviewing him about all sorts, even stuff like would he fight Eric Esch and Mike ust politly laughed it off but they also asked him about Roy, telling him that Roy says he has no decent opposition then Mike comes out with,
"Thats not true at all, theres Nigel Benn!"

At that point Benn was both massively known and big time faded, so Roy was stupid not to make the fight.

[Mr140]

Just a thought Teath if we are talking about who was the better fighter then i think Oscar when he was at the lower weights was just as good.

[porkypara]

After I posted this threat I thought I would get more incoming fire than a small Afganistan village.

But I am plesently supprised that a lot of you agree that Jones was not unbeatable and there were fighters out there if given the chance might have beaten him at his prime.

[Taeth]

Just a thought Teath if we are talking about who was the better fighter then i think Oscar when he was at the lower weights was just as good.

The one that was either hurt or knocked down a few times early on?, had a tough fight with Genaro Hernandez?

He wasn't as good. Why did Roy Jones win best fighter of the decade, If you are comparing Lower weights Oscar to lower weights Roy, Roy wins for sure, and Oscar was just growing up, He was naturally a WW, Roy was naturally a SMW, and he dominated above that at LHW. against good B class fighters.

[Dizaster]

I want to get a copy of this tv show that everyone watched that turned them against Roy's skills... I've watched 99% of Roy's fights, and given on a few nights he didn't explode knocking guys out in the first round, from the majority of his fights and what he was capable of, in MOST nights he was unbeatable..

Obviously the tv show was designed, edited, "flavoured", to show Roy as the legend he was, but to show him as the guy who had many chinks in his armour "some of which were exposed during his career".... Pick any fighter in the world and you could put together a show that paints him as someone who was highly overrated.. But it's just not the case... Fuck it's easy to say Roy was far from Unbeatable, but 99% he faced had no fucking chance of beating him.... And if he came prime in every fight, I doubt he would have ever lost a fight.. It's a big statement -- but "extraordinary talent" + "prime" = Unbeatable... That's all there is too it... And no one of Roy's time, and maybe any other time could have stopped him on his best night..

I agree he wasn't PERFECT by any stretch (and maybe that is what is being pointed out here), but in the ring where the game is to knock the other guy out or get knocked out yourself.. Roy was the fucking king of that game..

[ElTerribleMorales]

Best fighter of the Nineties?

Grow up!!

You have Ricardo Lopez, Pernell Whitaker and Azuma Nelson, who I can think of that were at least on the same level.

I cant vouch much further than that as I only really got in to boxing around the mid Nineties.

Also, Joe would have given each of these fighters a tough fight, if they were the same size.

don't forget to mention Chavez, Holyfield (who IMO accomplished just as much and took on more big names),

Best fighter of the Nineties?

Grow up!!

You have Ricardo Lopez, Pernell Whitaker and Azuma Nelson, who I can think of that were at least on the same level.

I cant vouch much further than that as I only really got in to boxing around the mid Nineties.

Also, Joe would have given each of these fighters a tough fight, if they were the same size.

You could make an arguement MAYBE for Pernell Whitaker, but none of the others apply, also Whitaker tailed off at the end of the 90's, and even in his prime he did not dominate like Roy

They both had similar ability to not get hit, only Roy was much better offensively, much faster, better at throwing combinations, better and countering. I won't disrespect Whitaker's name because he was a legit fighter as are the other guys you mentioned but how long did Ricardo Lopez remain the top 1 or 2 fighters on the p4p list? Or Azumah Nelson? When Pernell was at his peak is when Roy stole it away from him when he beat Toney so emphatically, he got it "stolen" away by Mosley and Trinidad, but that was just politics. Pernell is a great fighter, but he wasn't on Roy's level. Either was Azumah Nelson, especially not in the 90's where he went 1-1-2 with Jesse James Leija, had Genaro Hernandez beat him, and he went 1-1-1 with Fenech(which is respectable), but Nelson isn't considered on the same level as Roy JOnes p4p all time. He was really good, but not that good.

Like Isaid originally Whitaker was the only guy you could really compare to Roy Jones Jr in the 90's or even in the 2000's nobody has been like Roy was in the 90's.

how long did Jones dominate a division and take on all comers? and even avenge the only blemish on his record even after his skills and speed were visibly declining, to retire undefeated

umm yea Nelson in the 90's had already been a pro for at least 11 yrs and had fought the legendary Salvador Sanchez (and although beaten it was a close fight), Wilfredo Gomez, Marcos Villasana (had taken on Fenech, Zuniga, and Cepeda), than in the 90's Nelson took on Whitaker (in a competitive fight), LaPorte, Fenech (twice, a draw and a TKO win), Gabriel Ruelas (twice MD and TKO), Leija (4 times, a draw, UD loss, a TKO win, and last a UD loss), and Genaro Hernandez (sd loss), since when does Jones have that many big names on his record?

[El Kabong]

RJJ would have scorched Eubank, Benn, and Calzaghe in his prime...no fighter is unbeatable, but out of 100 fights with those guys Roy might lose 5 times....combined