After watching a prime Roy Jones on TV last night he was far from unbeatable.

[Spicoli]

I'm sorry but what a bunch of Gimmicky circus crap.I remember HBO was all over Roy's shaft.Brannon had no business being a mandatory and point of fact is Roydid not Need to risk more with this sort of warm partnership afforded to himself.

And what was up with Tony Pages reference to a wheel chair,"is that your only chance of respect" Set-up

[Mr140]

Look teath have to disagree Oscar looked not so super because his competion was leagues above Roys i mean come on now look at the wins. Even with Oscars Loses he has a way better resume then Roy does look how many wins he has over champions or former champions way better.

[Taeth]

I'm sorry but what a bunch of Gimmicky circus crap.I remember HBO was all over Roy's shaft.Brannon had no business being a mandatory and point of fact is Roydid not Need to risk more with this sort of warm partnership afforded to himself.

And what was up with Tony Pages reference to a wheel chair,"is that your only chance of respect" Set-up

Nobody else would fight him. Did you watch the whole thing? Why wouldn't HBO be able to get a fight for 7 figures with Nigel Benn or Chris Collins or Frankie Lyles? And this was just an example fo it. B-Hop was too pig headed, he didn't deserve the fight with Roy with him getting 50/50, but he wouldn't fight Roy unless he got that. It wasn't just B-Hop's fault, but as a guy trying to face the p4p #1, you have to make the sacrifices especially if they are the bigger draw.

Mayweather was p4p #1 yet he fought Oscar at 154, he fought Gatti at 140 in his home town.

Its the less known guys job to make the fight, not the more popular guy. If you want to call somebody out you have to make the sacrifice. Also I don't think Roy was that much bigger then Bernad, I just think Bernard worked very hard to stay at MW, lately Bernard has been just as big as Roy ever was at LHW.

I am not trying to argue that Roy JOnes Jr. is unbeatable. I think p4p Ray Robinson beats him, I think Floyd Mayweather makes a good arguement, I think Pernell Whitaker style wise gives him a good fight. I think Sandy Saddler p4p, Roberto Duran, Leonard, Hearns, all p4p give Roy a good fight. Among others.

But what I am saying is that Roy was the best of the 90's Though his skill level was comparable to some, I think the one test of how good they are is how long, how heigh in weight they can climb and maintain that dominance. However in the 90's I think there were two fighters who were relatively close to Roy and that was Hopkins and Whitaker. I think Dela Hoya and Mosley and Ricardo Lopez followed after them. In the 2000's the closest guys have been Mayweather(who I have on the Pernell/Hopkins level) and Winky Wright(who I have between MOsly/Oscar and the top level). Then there is Pacquaio and then Joe Calzaghe.

Roy Jones jr though had the biggest tool set both physically and in terms of effectiveness. I think he is a chin or a win away from being a p4p great(I mean top 20).

[Mr140]

Well if we are going to judge it by the weight thing i would have to say Evander was a better fighter then Roy when it came pound for pound. Not only did he start at the weight 175 but moved up to win the Hw champsionship more then anyother heavyweight has ever done before. Some times he was 30 pounds less then the guys he was fighting. Some of those guys were over 70 pounds heavier then his starting divsion was. But i never see Evander in the top 10 which is fine because he should be in like the top 20 when we are talking pound for pound he is that.

[Mr140]

Also never answered my question do you think Roy competion was better then Oscars and even with Oscars loses he still has better overall wins.

[Taeth]

Obviously Oscar De La Hoya had the best opposition since probably Muhammad Ali, but he didn't look that great against anybody near his caliber, yet Roy beat Hopkins quite easily, and he dominated Mike MaCcallum, James Toney, and Reggie Johnson. My point is that Oscar didn't dominate his better competition the way Roy did. He beat them, but Whitaker and JCC were older and much naturally smaller then Oscar. Had a rough fight with Quartey, a rough fight with Vargas, Mosley beat him. I think OScar was always a great fighter, but when he fought his best opposition he never stood out, yet Roy fought better, and dominated more against better opposition.
He didn't even try that hard against MaCcallum and won virtually every round, a guy who went on to fight very well against James Toney. Look what Roy did to MOntell Griffin in their rematch. Montell Griffin totally outboxed James Toney. He also fought a really good fighter in Virgill Hill, guess what happened? 4th round ko. He fought a good fighter in Julio Gonzalez, beat him up for 12 rounds and knocked him down three times. He fought a good fighter in Eric Harding who had just outboxed Antonio Tarver, Roy beat him in a tough fight, but Harding quit, and Jones was ahead by 2 to 6 rounds on scorecards. He beat a good fighter in Clinton Woods who was almost as good as Glen Johnson, but people thought he should retire because Roy dominated him so thoroughly. Roy then went up and beat John Ruiz(who I believe beat Evander HOlyfield) and won almost every round including hurting John Ruiz. He came back down beat Tarver after badly weight draining himself. Then the bad stuff happened. But before that these were all good fighters, who continued to be good and he made them look like Oscar made club fighters look.

People need to stop underrating Roy's opposition he fought the best guys at 175, except Dariusz who wouldn't come over to face him(A guy Juilio Gonzalez beat twice). But you can't unify the belt without fighting goood fighters and Roy had to beat Reggie Johnson, Virgill Hill, Loui Devalle, and Montell Griffin to unify the belt those are bad fighters.

Evander Holyfield never weighed 175 for a fight, and he fought around LHW 4 times, Roy Jones Jr fought at 154 for 20 some fights. That would make Roy at 154 pounder naturally if you are going by that. In fact Roy fought more fights at 154 then Holyfield fought at 175ish and crusierweight combined. I think Evander Holyfield at heavyweight was equivalent to Roy at 175, but look what happened

I felt Quawi beat him the first time they fought at cruiserweight
Riddick Bowe beat him in their trilogy
Michael Moorer even beat him.
He beat an old George Foreman who wasn't bad, but wasn't even close to what he was. He beat shell of the real Mike Tyson, He beat Buster Douglas, but besides the Tyson fight was largely a joke, he fought a good Ray Mercer, but that was good close fight. Lennox Lewis stomped him the first time, and the second time I still felt Lennox won.

Then at the end of the 90's Evander lost twice IMO to Lennox Lewis.

He isn't even in the arguement though, as great as he is. I have never heard of anybody who thought Evander HOlyfield was as good p4p as Roy Jones Jr.

Many people would argue Holyfield was one of the guys Roy Jones jr could go up to heavyweight and beat.

Make an arguement for Pernell Whitaker if you want, but otherwise in the 90's I don't there is another candidate that comes close.

[ross]

Roy beat Hopkins quite easily,

People need to stop underrating Roy's opposition he fought the best guys at 175, except Dariusz who wouldn't come over to face him(A guy Juilio Gonzalez beat twice).

Roy didnt beat Hopkins easy and why would Dariusz want to come over to fight a guy that Tarver beat Twice?

[Taeth]

Do you know the chronology of this? The big fight between Roy and Dariusz was before Roy ever moved up to heavyweight, and Dariusz ended up losing to a guy Roy pummelled for 12 rounds in Julio Gonzalez anyways. Dariusz was overrated.

Did you watch the ROy JOnes jr- Bernard Hopkins fight? By the middle Roy was landing 50% of his shots to like 20% connection for Bernard. A few times Bernard thought he had Roy figured out only to come out the next round and have Roy make the adjustments that would totally throw Bernard off again. All this was done without him being able to throw his right cross effectively. He was throwing it with an open hand all night. Roy wasn't as effective as he was in some fights, but he still won almost every round until he took off the last few, and he was still just as green as Bernard was, it took him like 5-6 rounds to even open up. Bernard couldn't deal with his speed or elusiveness. Which is the key point ,Roy wasn't just speed, he was as elusive as anyone, thats what him different in some ways from guys like Ali, Leonard, Michael Nunn, is that Roy was extremely hard to hit anywhere, while the other guys weren't quite as concerned about getting hit.