How Do You Rank Jones, Calzaghe, and Hopkins ATGreatness As Of Now?

[BIG H]

There's nothing wrong with Calzaghe's win over Hopkins. Hopkins showed top form before the loss and even better after. Roy beat Hopkins fair and square too.

So Hopkins is definitely 3rd.

Negative. Losing to a fighter doesn't suddenly mean you are below them in rank.
Hopkins beat better opposition than calzaghe and it can be argued that he won the fight against him.

I don't know about that. Hopkins reign at Middleweight is a list of mediocre names apart from Tito (a Welterweight who started at Junior Welter) and ODLH (a Welterweight who started at Lightweight) His best win after Middleweight was at 170lbs against Wink (a Junior Middleweight fighting 10 pounds heavier than he ever had previously) You can pick apart any fighters resume, and RJJ, Calzaghe and Hopkins are 3 in particular that you can pick apart.

[BIG H]

Statistically I think JC has a good claim to be ahead of Hopkins, but my feeling is that they should be rated as

RJJ
B-Hop
JC

[El Kabong]

It would have been nice had all these fighters gotten to fight each other in their primes: RJJ, Toney, Calzaghe, Hopkins, Eubank, Benn, Collins, McClellan, Jackson, Nunn, Michalczewski, Ottke.


You can make cases for most of them being over protected...which is sad, but that's life

[intoccabile]

There's nothing wrong with Calzaghe's win over Hopkins. Hopkins showed top form before the loss and even better after. Roy beat Hopkins fair and square too.

So Hopkins is definitely 3rd.

Negative. Losing to a fighter doesn't suddenly mean you are below them in rank.
Hopkins beat better opposition than calzaghe and it can be argued that he won the fight against him.

I don't know about that. Hopkins reign at Middleweight is a list of mediocre names apart from Tito (a Welterweight who started at Junior Welter) and ODLH (a Welterweight who started at Lightweight) His best win after Middleweight was at 170lbs against Wink (a Junior Middleweight fighting 10 pounds heavier than he ever had previously) You can pick apart any fighters resume, and RJJ, Calzaghe and Hopkins are 3 in particular that you can pick apart.

This is true. But Hopkins has very good names on his resume, something Calzaghe lacks.
Hopkins, although outsized guys, beat guys who would have moved up and dominated others in the division. Oscar has been successful at 154-160. Winky was still very game in that fight, etc etc.

Hopkins beat people who werent just great, but POUND FOR POUND great. Guys who could actually move up and do damage, hopkins beat. So the fights were definitely still in their grasps.

I still think Oscar took a fall in the hopkins fight though haha. I dont include him in bhops resume

[mrodub]

Someone just said jones was full of shit and hopkins tells it like it is come on hopkins made a load of stupid excuses after the calzaghe fight did you no he was sick thats why he lost(wink)
Also to say hopkins was a true middlewight champ at that time is stupid considering jones beat hopkins before he moved up in weight and the only person of substance hopkins had beat at that point was tito then hopkins was offered a fight with jones and weisled his way out of it over money.
Also jones is a natural middleweight for him to have beat ruiz was a miracle and to put him down was even better as i said earlier there has only ever been one other guy to do that and that was in the days when heavys were only the size of todays light heavys.In his prime he was one of the most talented fighter to ever grace the ring what is hopkins legacy he wins fine but how faking low blows and holding wow great champion

[match]

Someone just said jones was full of shit and hopkins tells it like it is come on hopkins made a load of stupid excuses after the calzaghe fight did you no he was sick thats why he lost(wink)
Also to say hopkins was a true middlewight champ at that time is stupid considering jones beat hopkins before he moved up in weight and the only person of substance hopkins had beat at that point was tito then hopkins was offered a fight with jones and weisled his way out of it over money.
Also jones is a natural middleweight for him to have beat ruiz was a miracle and to put him down was even better as i said earlier there has only ever been one other guy to do that and that was in the days when heavys were only the size of todays light heavys.In his prime he was one of the most talented fighter to ever grace the ring what is hopkins legacy he wins fine but how faking low blows and holding wow great champion

Actually the majority of ringside press had Hopkins winning the Calzaghe fight, and even if you think he lost, the mere admission that it was close implies it could have gone either way (if a fight is a split decision, most of the time the losing fighter has a gripe). Also how is it 'stupid' to say Hopkins is the true middleweight champ, considering he won the belt Roy VACATED. Everyone knows Roy beat him, unfortunately, when you move up in weight, you don't take your belts with you, otherwise Roy would have entered the Ruiz fight as the reigning middleweight, supermiddleweight, and light heavyweight champion. (and lastly, anyone who puts the fall through of the Jones-Hopkins rematch on only one of the fighters is blinded by the fact that NEITHER one of them saw it as their priority).

[mrodub]

Someone just said jones was full of shit and hopkins tells it like it is come on hopkins made a load of stupid excuses after the calzaghe fight did you no he was sick thats why he lost(wink)
Also to say hopkins was a true middlewight champ at that time is stupid considering jones beat hopkins before he moved up in weight and the only person of substance hopkins had beat at that point was tito then hopkins was offered a fight with jones and weisled his way out of it over money.
Also jones is a natural middleweight for him to have beat ruiz was a miracle and to put him down was even better as i said earlier there has only ever been one other guy to do that and that was in the days when heavys were only the size of todays light heavys.In his prime he was one of the most talented fighter to ever grace the ring what is hopkins legacy he wins fine but how faking low blows and holding wow great champion

Actually the majority of ringside press had Hopkins winning the Calzaghe fight, and even if you think he lost, the mere admission that it was close implies it could have gone either way (if a fight is a split decision, most of the time the losing fighter has a gripe). Also how is it 'stupid' to say Hopkins is the true middleweight champ, considering he won the belt Roy VACATED. Everyone knows Roy beat him, unfortunately, when you move up in weight, you don't take your belts with you, otherwise Roy would have entered the Ruiz fight as the reigning middleweight, supermiddleweight, and light heavyweight champion. (and lastly, anyone who puts the fall through of the Jones-Hopkins rematch on only one of the fighters is blinded by the fact that NEITHER one of them saw it as their priority).

At what poit did i question the scoring of the calzage hopkins match?
I didnt i said hopkins came up with stupid excses which he did
What you said in your orignal post was guys like jones collect trinkets for titles and hopkins was the true middleweight champ

"The real middleweight champ was Hopkins. The real heavyweight champ was Lennox. All those guys did was pick up trinckets, not titles."

Well sorry no his titles were not trinkets they were genuine titles the only one i can agree with is the lennox lewis bit, to be the true champ you have to beat the champ not lose to him and then get his vacant title because he feels your not good enough to bother competing with anymore,hopkins was a champ but hardly the true champ
The implication above is jones did not beat lewis so he was not the real heavyweight champ fair enough, but to put hopkins in that bracket as well is stupid
Last it was clearly a prioroty for hopkins who ran his mouth off about fighting jones after he beat titto he called him out by name but when jones responded hopkins backed out because of money nothing to do with the fact RJJ said he was gonna move up a weight and b hop did not expect him to say yes LOL

[match]

Someone just said jones was full of shit and hopkins tells it like it is come on hopkins made a load of stupid excuses after the calzaghe fight did you no he was sick thats why he lost(wink)
Also to say hopkins was a true middlewight champ at that time is stupid considering jones beat hopkins before he moved up in weight and the only person of substance hopkins had beat at that point was tito then hopkins was offered a fight with jones and weisled his way out of it over money.
Also jones is a natural middleweight for him to have beat ruiz was a miracle and to put him down was even better as i said earlier there has only ever been one other guy to do that and that was in the days when heavys were only the size of todays light heavys.In his prime he was one of the most talented fighter to ever grace the ring what is hopkins legacy he wins fine but how faking low blows and holding wow great champion

Actually the majority of ringside press had Hopkins winning the Calzaghe fight, and even if you think he lost, the mere admission that it was close implies it could have gone either way (if a fight is a split decision, most of the time the losing fighter has a gripe). Also how is it 'stupid' to say Hopkins is the true middleweight champ, considering he won the belt Roy VACATED. Everyone knows Roy beat him, unfortunately, when you move up in weight, you don't take your belts with you, otherwise Roy would have entered the Ruiz fight as the reigning middleweight, supermiddleweight, and light heavyweight champion. (and lastly, anyone who puts the fall through of the Jones-Hopkins rematch on only one of the fighters is blinded by the fact that NEITHER one of them saw it as their priority).

At what poit did i question the scoring of the calzage hopkins match?
I didnt i said hopkins came up with stupid excses which he did
What you said in your orignal post was guys like jones collect trinkets for titles and hopkins was the true middleweight champ

"The real middleweight champ was Hopkins. The real heavyweight champ was Lennox. All those guys did was pick up trinckets, not titles."

Well sorry no his titles were not trinkets they were genuine titles the only one i can agree with is the lennox lewis bit, to be the true champ you have to beat the champ not lose to him and then get his vacant title because he feels your not good enough to bother competing with anymore,hopkins was a champ but hardly the true champ
The implication above is jones did not beat lewis so he was not the real heavyweight champ fair enough, but to put hopkins in that bracket as well is stupid
Last it was clearly a prioroty for hopkins who ran his mouth off about fighting jones after he beat titto he called him out by name but when jones responded hopkins backed out because of money nothing to do with the fact RJJ said he was gonna move up a weight and b hop did not expect him to say yes LOL

Jones did THE EXACT same thing Hopkins did, hide behind money. EVERYONE thought Tito would beat Hopkins and EVERYONE was set for Trinidad-Jones at 168 the very next fight. At NO POINT DID ROY EVER bring up percentages when THAT was the plan. However, as soon as Hopkins won, now BOTH fighters start talking about what they will not accept. That is an indication that BOTH fighters would rather pursue other options. And I know you didn't question the scores, I'm saying when fighters lose split decisions they ALWAYS will say they should have won. And lastly, by your middleweight analogy, Lennox Lewis never became heavyweight champion, being that he never fought Riddick Bowe. I never said Roy won a trinket at middle or super middleweight or light heavy, I said heavyweight.

[mrodub]

Actually the majority of ringside press had Hopkins winning the Calzaghe fight, and even if you think he lost, the mere admission that it was close implies it could have gone either way (if a fight is a split decision, most of the time the losing fighter has a gripe). Also how is it 'stupid' to say Hopkins is the true middleweight champ, considering he won the belt Roy VACATED. Everyone knows Roy beat him, unfortunately, when you move up in weight, you don't take your belts with you, otherwise Roy would have entered the Ruiz fight as the reigning middleweight, supermiddleweight, and light heavyweight champion. (and lastly, anyone who puts the fall through of the Jones-Hopkins rematch on only one of the fighters is blinded by the fact that NEITHER one of them saw it as their priority).

At what poit did i question the scoring of the calzage hopkins match?
I didnt i said hopkins came up with stupid excses which he did
What you said in your orignal post was guys like jones collect trinkets for titles and hopkins was the true middleweight champ

"The real middleweight champ was Hopkins. The real heavyweight champ was Lennox. All those guys did was pick up trinckets, not titles."

Well sorry no his titles were not trinkets they were genuine titles the only one i can agree with is the lennox lewis bit, to be the true champ you have to beat the champ not lose to him and then get his vacant title because he feels your not good enough to bother competing with anymore,hopkins was a champ but hardly the true champ
The implication above is jones did not beat lewis so he was not the real heavyweight champ fair enough, but to put hopkins in that bracket as well is stupid
Last it was clearly a prioroty for hopkins who ran his mouth off about fighting jones after he beat titto he called him out by name but when jones responded hopkins backed out because of money nothing to do with the fact RJJ said he was gonna move up a weight and b hop did not expect him to say yes LOL

Jones did THE EXACT same thing Hopkins did, hide behind money. EVERYONE thought Tito would beat Hopkins and EVERYONE was set for Trinidad-Jones at 168 the very next fight. At NO POINT DID ROY EVER bring up percentages when THAT was the plan. However, as soon as Hopkins won, now BOTH fighters start talking about what they will not accept. That is an indication that BOTH fighters would rather pursue other options. And I know you didn't question the scores, I'm saying when fighters lose split decisions they ALWAYS will say they should have won. And lastly, by your middleweight analogy, Lennox Lewis never became heavyweight champion, being that he never fought Riddick Bowe. I never said Roy won a trinket at middle or super middleweight or light heavy, I said heavyweight.

Fair enough i thought you were trying to diminish his achievements.I dont think roy hid behind money if someone beat me and i though i could win i would fight for free and 60 40 was a fair split considering hopkins had only one name on his record

[match]

At what poit did i question the scoring of the calzage hopkins match?
I didnt i said hopkins came up with stupid excses which he did
What you said in your orignal post was guys like jones collect trinkets for titles and hopkins was the true middleweight champ

"The real middleweight champ was Hopkins. The real heavyweight champ was Lennox. All those guys did was pick up trinckets, not titles."

Well sorry no his titles were not trinkets they were genuine titles the only one i can agree with is the lennox lewis bit, to be the true champ you have to beat the champ not lose to him and then get his vacant title because he feels your not good enough to bother competing with anymore,hopkins was a champ but hardly the true champ
The implication above is jones did not beat lewis so he was not the real heavyweight champ fair enough, but to put hopkins in that bracket as well is stupid
Last it was clearly a prioroty for hopkins who ran his mouth off about fighting jones after he beat titto he called him out by name but when jones responded hopkins backed out because of money nothing to do with the fact RJJ said he was gonna move up a weight and b hop did not expect him to say yes LOL

Jones did THE EXACT same thing Hopkins did, hide behind money. EVERYONE thought Tito would beat Hopkins and EVERYONE was set for Trinidad-Jones at 168 the very next fight. At NO POINT DID ROY EVER bring up percentages when THAT was the plan. However, as soon as Hopkins won, now BOTH fighters start talking about what they will not accept. That is an indication that BOTH fighters would rather pursue other options. And I know you didn't question the scores, I'm saying when fighters lose split decisions they ALWAYS will say they should have won. And lastly, by your middleweight analogy, Lennox Lewis never became heavyweight champion, being that he never fought Riddick Bowe. I never said Roy won a trinket at middle or super middleweight or light heavy, I said heavyweight.

Fair enough i thought you were trying to diminish his achievements.I dont think roy hid behind money if someone beat me and i though i could win i would fight for free and 60 40 was a fair split considering hopkins had only one name on his record

I hear ya. The main thing is that everyone has different criteria for what they consider greatness. Some people believe it's the number of belts you win or how high you can go, some believe it's the level of competition or your record, others factor in if you've lost and if so, how close or lopsided. There's no right or wrong really, it's all subjective.

[Spicoli]

Hopkins
Jones
Calzaghe

On technicals and a dose or reality,Calzaghe must be respected for defeating the two.Hopkins was nip & tuck with him but Joe deserved it.Jones was devestating last night.....but I feel you could see that coming.Honestly.Im not doubting Joes greatness,but Ive lived with Hopkins and Jones from day 1 here and we are not even talking 'Prime 4 prime' ,need aspirin!

[The Fightfan]

Calzaghe hey he did beat both of them by pretty wide margins IMO
Jones did beat BHop
Hopkins lost too both of them

As plain as I can see it.