Joe Calzaghe P4P #1?

[ICB]

Anybody think JMM beat Pac twice? If he did then Pac aint number 1!!

Yes i think JMM beat Manny Pacquiao twice, but i also think Robin Reid, Bernard Hopkins, beat Joe Calzaghe so that works both ways

[ICB]

Hopkins beating Pavlik worse tops this, and if you consider their fight really close then Hopkins has a "Draw" against Calzaghe, he beat Wright old or not is as good as KEssler IMO, Tarver, and now Pavlik. Maybe he should be ahead of Calzaghe .

J.k I still think Pacquaio has the better resume guys like Barrera and Morales weren't as washed up as Jones when Pacquaio tore them a new one, and he beat JMM who is a great fighter as well(who is still fighting great).

You don't think Morales was as washed up as Jones Jr?

So defeats to Zahir Raheem and David Diaz showed he was still at the top of his game right? Gimme a break Morales was done then. A couple years earlier whilst still past his best he got a win over Pacquio.

The first win over Barrera was sensational but the rematch was nothing more than a routine win over a aged fighter happy to go the distance.

Marquez is still very much in form, and he pushed Pacquaio to his limits.

No doubt Manny is p4p number 1 though his overal resume is superb, bit his recent performances in the last couple years havn't eclipsed Joe at all.

Calzaghe at super feather and lightweight would have won just the same

P4P JMM is all wrong for Joe Calzaghe.

[BIG H]

Anybody think JMM beat Pac twice? If he did then Pac aint number 1!!

Yes i think JMM beat Manny Pacquiao twice, but i also think Robin Reid, Bernard Hopkins, beat Joe Calzaghe so that works both ways

You must have JMM number 1 then ?

[ICB]

Anybody think JMM beat Pac twice? If he did then Pac aint number 1!!

Yes i think JMM beat Manny Pacquiao twice, but i also think Robin Reid, Bernard Hopkins, beat Joe Calzaghe so that works both ways

You must have JMM number 1 then ?

Yea why not ? if you think a fighter lost a certain fight, you should rank them lower in the P4P rankings, because its your opinion and your list. Forgetting what the record books say.

I think Pernell Whitaker should only have 1 loss on his record, and i think he should be top 10 P4P of all time. And i think Muhammad Ali should have atleast 9 losses on his record and he should be out of the top 10 P4P of all time, thats the beauty of P4P lists mate.

[JT Rock]

If Pac wasn fighting Oscar next month I would give Joe the Nod, he is undefeated and at one time held ring belts at 168-175 and now is the best 175 fighter in the world.

Regardless of all you hindsight Jockies, be beat Lacy who was a beast and the Heir apparent

Kessler- enough said

awkward Bika

Hopkins

Jones- who wasnt shot

Jones and Hopkins were more competitive than Barrera and Morales the 2nd time around..

But if Pac beats Oscar who is bigger and stronger and not shot than Pac has a stranglehold on PFP, since no one is going to equal that feat anytime soon.. If Manny loses than Joe takes his rightful spot

[ICB]

If Pac wasn fighting Oscar next month I would give Joe the Nod, he is undefeated and at one time held ring belts at 168-175 and now is the best 175 fighter in the world.

Regardless of all you hindsight Jockies, be beat Lacy who was a beast and the Heir apparent

Kessler- enough said

awkward Bika

Hopkins

Jones- who wasnt shot

Jones and Hopkins were more competitive than Barrera and Morales the 2nd time around..

But if Pac beats Oscar who is bigger and stronger and not shot than Pac has a stranglehold on PFP, since no one is going to equal that feat anytime soon.. If Manny loses than Joe takes his rightful spot

RJJ who wasn't shot ? you gotta be kidding there bro ? RJJ hasn't had a stoppage win since 2002, and hasn't had the killer instinct or the stamina since 2002, he was way past his past his best.

Atleast MAB when he fought Manny Pacquiao a 2nd time, was coming off a controversial decision loss to one of the top P4P fighters in the world JMM. And Erik Morales was still a good fighter in the first 2 fights with Manny Pacquiao, he was completely shot after though.

[JT Rock]

If Pac wasn fighting Oscar next month I would give Joe the Nod, he is undefeated and at one time held ring belts at 168-175 and now is the best 175 fighter in the world.

Regardless of all you hindsight Jockies, be beat Lacy who was a beast and the Heir apparent

Kessler- enough said

awkward Bika

Hopkins

Jones- who wasnt shot

Jones and Hopkins were more competitive than Barrera and Morales the 2nd time around..

But if Pac beats Oscar who is bigger and stronger and not shot than Pac has a stranglehold on PFP, since no one is going to equal that feat anytime soon.. If Manny loses than Joe takes his rightful spot

RJJ who wasn't shot ? you gotta be kidding there bro ? RJJ hasn't had a stoppage win since 2002, and hasn't had the killer instinct or the stamina since 2002, he was way past his past his best.

Atleast MAB when he fought Manny Pacquiao a 2nd time, was coming off a controversial decision loss to one of the top P4P fighters in the world JMM. And Erik Morales was still a good fighter in the first 2 fights with Manny Pacquiao, he was completely shot after though.

Jones couldnt deal wih Joes workrate, he would have been fine against a guy who fought a normal moderate pace, his legs looked good he was moving , wasnt giving in and was brave.. still showed handspeed when he through and stunned Joe a few times with power..

Jones wasnt the Jones we marveled at but he is still a pretty good fighter

[ICB]

If Pac wasn fighting Oscar next month I would give Joe the Nod, he is undefeated and at one time held ring belts at 168-175 and now is the best 175 fighter in the world.

Regardless of all you hindsight Jockies, be beat Lacy who was a beast and the Heir apparent

Kessler- enough said

awkward Bika

Hopkins

Jones- who wasnt shot

Jones and Hopkins were more competitive than Barrera and Morales the 2nd time around..

But if Pac beats Oscar who is bigger and stronger and not shot than Pac has a stranglehold on PFP, since no one is going to equal that feat anytime soon.. If Manny loses than Joe takes his rightful spot

RJJ who wasn't shot ? you gotta be kidding there bro ? RJJ hasn't had a stoppage win since 2002, and hasn't had the killer instinct or the stamina since 2002, he was way past his past his best.

Atleast MAB when he fought Manny Pacquiao a 2nd time, was coming off a controversial decision loss to one of the top P4P fighters in the world JMM. And Erik Morales was still a good fighter in the first 2 fights with Manny Pacquiao, he was completely shot after though.

Jones couldnt deal wih Joes workrate, he would have been fine against a guy who fought a normal moderate pace, his legs looked good he was moving , wasnt giving in and was brave.. still showed handspeed when he through and stunned Joe a few times with power..

Jones wasnt the Jones we marveled at but he is still a pretty good fighter

I was actually pretty disappointed with RJJ, Joe Calzaghe was standing right infront of him with his hands down. And RJJ didn't do anything, and he didn't counter nearly as much as i thought he would.

I just watched a prime RJJ yesterday jeez what a difference, it didn't even look like the same fighter to the version that fought Joe Calzaghe.

I think problem is that RJJ hasn't got the killer instinct no more, and that showed in the 3rd Antonio Tarver fight.

And even more alarmingly in his comeback fights, he had Felix Trinidad, Anthony Hanshaw, in huge trouble and he couldn't finish them off. Plus he didn't have the stamina in any of those fights either.

RJJ still has speed but he doesn't put combinations together JT, which was one of his best attributes. Its all one punch at a time, ever since RJJ moved down from Heavyweight he has looked pretty poor in most of his fights IMO.

[BIG H]

Yes i think JMM beat Manny Pacquiao twice, but i also think Robin Reid, Bernard Hopkins, beat Joe Calzaghe so that works both ways

You must have JMM number 1 then ?

Yea why not ? if you think a fighter lost a certain fight, you should rank them lower in the P4P rankings, because its your opinion and your list. Forgetting what the record books say.

I think Pernell Whitaker should only have 1 loss on his record, and i think he should be top 10 P4P of all time. And i think Muhammad Ali should have atleast 9 losses on his record and he should be out of the top 10 P4P of all time, thats the beauty of P4P lists mate.

Fair play mate. I agree Sweet P should be to 10 p4p of all time. I'm interested to see which 9 fights you had Ali losing (I guess you had him losing all 3 versus Norton)

[JT Rock]

RJJ who wasn't shot ? you gotta be kidding there bro ? RJJ hasn't had a stoppage win since 2002, and hasn't had the killer instinct or the stamina since 2002, he was way past his past his best.

Atleast MAB when he fought Manny Pacquiao a 2nd time, was coming off a controversial decision loss to one of the top P4P fighters in the world JMM. And Erik Morales was still a good fighter in the first 2 fights with Manny Pacquiao, he was completely shot after though.

Jones couldnt deal wih Joes workrate, he would have been fine against a guy who fought a normal moderate pace, his legs looked good he was moving , wasnt giving in and was brave.. still showed handspeed when he through and stunned Joe a few times with power..

Jones wasnt the Jones we marveled at but he is still a pretty good fighter

I was actually pretty disappointed with RJJ, Joe Calzaghe was standing right infront of him with his hands down. And RJJ didn't do anything, and he didn't counter nearly as much as i thought he would.

I just watched a prime RJJ yesterday jeez what a difference, it didn't even look like the same fighter to the version that fought Joe Calzaghe.

I think problem is that RJJ hasn't got the killer instinct no more, and that showed in the 3rd Antonio Tarver fight.

And even more alarmingly in his comeback fights, he had Felix Trinidad, Anthony Hanshaw, in huge trouble and he couldn't finish them off. Plus he didn't have the stamina in any of those fights either.

RJJ still has speed but he doesn't put combinations together JT, which was one of his best attributes. Its all one punch at a time, ever since RJJ moved down from Heavyweight he has looked pretty poor in most of his fights IMO.

I agree, and said it already, no where near the fighter we marveled at, but still a pretty damn good fighter, I have no doubt that if he jumped on Joe after the KD that he could have had the most spectacular 1st round KO in years he was fresh full of speed and power but like you said dosent have the killer instinct, he let Trinidad off the hook, hell in the 5th round he let tarver off the hook in there 3rd fight, he had Tarver folded over and stunned from bodyshots and uppercuts ready to go against the ropes and he backed away...

Joe was hurt and hurt real bad, that wasnt a flash KD he was dazed silly and Jones either thought he would be doing that allnite or dosent have the killer instinct..

Jones was one of the best or the best finisher in the business at one time, now he could careless and that was a huge part of his game.. Guys like RJJ and PBF are so much fun to watch when they close the show they way they pounce and just dissect there opponent with excellent punch selection

[ICB]

You must have JMM number 1 then ?

Yea why not ? if you think a fighter lost a certain fight, you should rank them lower in the P4P rankings, because its your opinion and your list. Forgetting what the record books say.

I think Pernell Whitaker should only have 1 loss on his record, and i think he should be top 10 P4P of all time. And i think Muhammad Ali should have atleast 9 losses on his record and he should be out of the top 10 P4P of all time, thats the beauty of P4P lists mate.

Fair play mate. I agree Sweet P should be to 10 p4p of all time. I'm interested to see which 9 fights you had Ali losing (I guess you had him losing all 3 versus Norton)

I just watched Ken Norton vs Muhammad trilogy again, and i did have him losing all 3 fights. Ken Norton with his crab like style defense, would block Muhammad Ali's jab with his right glove constantly and counter with rising jabs over the top, plus he was putting on effective pressure all night.

It reminded me of Larry Holmes vs Tim Witherspoon, because just like Ken Norton. Tim Witherspoon with his crab like style defense. Would block Larry Holmes jab with his right glove, and counter with rising jabs over the top. And was putting effective pressure on all night, although i had Larry Holmes vs Tim Witherspoon a draw.

I also had Muhammad Ali losing to Jimmy Young, Earnie Shavers, i thought he got a draw with Doug Jones. And technically he should of been DQ in the Henry Cooper fight, because after the knockdown he was given smelling salts, which wern't allowed in the UK at that time i believe.

[Beanflicker]

You don't think Morales was as washed up as Jones Jr?

So defeats to Zahir Raheem and David Diaz showed he was still at the top of his game right? Gimme a break Morales was done then. A couple years earlier whilst still past his best he got a win over Pacquio.

May have been done, but he wasn't a guy who relied as heavily on reflexes and speed as Roy was.

I still say Pac is #1, and if Pac manages to pull a miracle against Oscar there is no way Calzaghe can up that.

[GAME]

Lacy and Kessler were both highly touted undfeated champions at the time ? Joe has also beaten the legends ? Hes reigned for over a decade ?

Its a no brainer

Lol i really hope you're being sarcastic.

Joe in his last interview talks about how he Beat Kessler, Reigned for a decade, and beat 2 american legends.

He never mentions lacy or any other fights. He knows just as well as we do that those guys were nothing.

Look what Pac has done, how many divisions he's been in, how he handled Barrera twice, his war with JMM and Morales. His clinic on diaz and now a possible win over Oscar.

There's no question who is p4p.

Okay so lets compare Pacs record to Joes then .

Pac has been knocked clean out TWICE by guys who were nowhere near world class. He has had a couple of draws with Sanchez and Marquez ( should have lost both ) yeah he beats up washed up guys like Morales and Barrera but a washed up Morales also beat Pac and Pacs biggest win was his decision over Marquez who most people belive ( even the filipino media ) than Marquez deserved the decision . Now he is about to get knocked out again by a washed up De La Hoya.

Joe has beat everyone he has ever faced and has fought consistantly in world class longer than any other active boxer. There can be no debate about who is better . Its clearly Calzaghe

[Rantcatrat]

With this win, I'd put Joe at #2, inching past JMM. If Pac loses in December and Joe doesn't retire, then maybe Joe moves up to #1.

Jones fought with heart in this fight. Calzaghe is just better. Calzaghe clowned Jones. Made him look very bad. Who at 160/168/175 would beat Jones other than people that Calzaghe has already beat ( and Chad Dawson or Glen Johnson)? Even though Jones was not in prime form, he still is faster and better than most boxers out there around that weight. Similarly, who would beat Bernard out there? Who would beat Kessler? Speaking of Bernard, the clinic he put on Pavlik has to make Calzaghe's close points win that much more special (Pavlik is the reigning middleweight champion of the world).

[DaxxKahn]

RJJ who wasn't shot ? you gotta be kidding there bro ? RJJ hasn't had a stoppage win since 2002, and hasn't had the killer instinct or the stamina since 2002, he was way past his past his best.

Atleast MAB when he fought Manny Pacquiao a 2nd time, was coming off a controversial decision loss to one of the top P4P fighters in the world JMM. And Erik Morales was still a good fighter in the first 2 fights with Manny Pacquiao, he was completely shot after though.

Jones couldnt deal wih Joes workrate, he would have been fine against a guy who fought a normal moderate pace, his legs looked good he was moving , wasnt giving in and was brave.. still showed handspeed when he through and stunned Joe a few times with power..

Jones wasnt the Jones we marveled at but he is still a pretty good fighter

I was actually pretty disappointed with RJJ, Joe Calzaghe was standing right infront of him with his hands down. And RJJ didn't do anything, and he didn't counter nearly as much as i thought he would.

I just watched a prime RJJ yesterday jeez what a difference, it didn't even look like the same fighter to the version that fought Joe Calzaghe.

I think problem is that RJJ hasn't got the killer instinct no more, and that showed in the 3rd Antonio Tarver fight.

And even more alarmingly in his comeback fights, he had Felix Trinidad, Anthony Hanshaw, in huge trouble and he couldn't finish them off. Plus he didn't have the stamina in any of those fights either.

RJJ still has speed but he doesn't put combinations together JT, which was one of his best attributes. Its all one punch at a time, ever since RJJ moved down from Heavyweight he has looked pretty poor in most of his fights IMO.

Roy can't pull the trigger at will anymore simple as that.....