Chad Dawson vs Joe Calzaghe

[ICB]

Not this old chesnut again i remember Fenster/Bilbo, going over this not long ago.

[Kev]

Blimey, you're confusing me now.

The whole point of recognising the linear champion is because multi world champions is utterly ridiculous.

The man that beat the man at least keeps some order. Even if the apparent best fighter isn't occupying the position.

As long as you recognise Dawson is currently top dog because of the form he has shown and NOT because he has an alphabet title, i agree. I think.

Yep that's it in a nutshell

Calzaghe is the true LHW champion of the world.

I think as time goes on the alaphabet belts mean less and less to real fans.
All they do is confuse fight fans and put people off the sport.

I only recognise The Ring champions as real world champs these days.

~Have you not read any of the 1000 plus words I wrote?

It's not because Dawson has a belt that makes him the man to beat it's the fact that he's the only top light heavyweight who actually fights light heavyweights!

Hopkins had ONE fight at light heavy, beating Tarver. He then gave up the belt and fought Winky at 170 who had never gone above 160 and then fought Joe a supermiddle who had never fought outside that weight class before. Both Joe and B Hop weight 173 for the fight, not sure if that was an agreed catchweight or not but Calzaghe came in at just under 175 for Jones.

Hopkins never wanted anything to do with the 175 weight class other than the chance to call himself a two weight world champ.

Calzaghe beats Hopkins, in a fight which might just as well have taken place at 168 and then fights Jones Jr, which although a huge marquee fight against a boxing legend, wasn't against a fighter rated as one of the real current threats in the division.

Meanwhile Dawson has been fighting and beating everybody.

It's similar to Juan diaz when he was winning all the belts and defeating everyone in the lightweight divsion whilst Casamayor was scraping through thanks to corrupt judging and going life and death with relatively ordinary fighters like Katsidis.

If Juan Diaz had beaten Nate Campbell and then Marquez had beaten Casamayor before vacating the belt and fighting Juan Guzman back at superfeather, then Valero came up and beat Marquez in a non title fight we'd be in a similar situation.

And I'd be adament that Valero wasn't the number 1 in the division, Juan Diaz would have been, not becuase of trinket belts but becuase he was the guy winning fights in the lightweight division.


So if Calzaghe wants to be able to truly lay claim to being king at 175 he needs to beat the other unbeaten fighter who has won 2 world title belts and beaten Tarver, Johnson and Adamek three bona fida world champs

[Kev]

If you follow this linear champ stuff to the letter you'd have to say that for a brief period in 2006 Carlos Baldimor was the best fighter in the world at 147 lbs.

Is that really the case?

Did his win over Zab mean it was job done, he'd cleaned up at welterweight and could down in history as an undisputed universally recognised champ?

This is a rhetorical question obviously any answer other than 'FUCKING HELL NO!!!!' is completely wrong

[Fenster]

If you follow this linear champ stuff to the letter you'd have to say that for a brief period in 2006 Carlos Baldimor was the best fighter in the world at 147 lbs.

Is that really the case?

Did his win over Zab mean it was job done, he'd cleaned up at welterweight and could down in history as an undisputed universally recognised champ?

This is a rhetorical question obviously any answer other than 'FUCKING HELL NO!!!!' is completely wrong

Ive explained to you before being the linear champ doesn't necessarily mean you're the best fighter.

Mate you seem to contradict and repeat yourself so much, please answer me this

Do you class Hopkins as a lightheavy champ?

[Kev]

If you follow this linear champ stuff to the letter you'd have to say that for a brief period in 2006 Carlos Baldimor was the best fighter in the world at 147 lbs.

Is that really the case?

Did his win over Zab mean it was job done, he'd cleaned up at welterweight and could down in history as an undisputed universally recognised champ?

This is a rhetorical question obviously any answer other than 'FUCKING HELL NO!!!!' is completely wrong

Ive explained to you before being the linear champ doesn't necessarily mean you're the best fighter.

Mate you seem to contradict and repeat yourself so much, please answer me this

Do you class Hopkins as a lightheavy champ?

Yeah of course.

It's not complicated Fenster. I recognise both Hopkins and Calzaghe as light heavyweight champs, I have no problem with people calling Calzaghe a two weight world champ.

BUT he's not the undisputed champion at 175 because he hasn't unified the division and beaten the obvious rival.

He can't claim dominance over the 175 lb division like he can with the 168 lb division because he hasn't beaten all of his rivals.

Look back to the days of Ancient Rome and the triumvirate between Julius Ceaser, Pompey and Marcus Crassus. They each held control over parts of the Roman empire. Crassus was killed in battle at Carhaee and eliminated, and then Ceaser and Pompey slugged it out for the title of Roman Emporer.

Fast forward to now and we have Hopkins, Calzaghe and Dawson all with a claim to the lightheavyweight throne. Hopkins has been defeated and unless he can rally and force calzaghe to do battle again is now out of the running.

That leaves Calzaghe to face Dawson for the crown.

It's great to have a lineage but what's important is for ALL the important fights to be made and for the best fighters to fight each other.

If Calzaghe retires and doesn't fight Dawson, whilst he's still a legend, and all time great he won't have completed his conquest at 175, he would have withdrawn.

Continuing with my Roman analogy, it's like when Ceaser defeated Vercingetorix and conquered the Gauls (supermidlleweight division) and then decided to invade Britain (lightheavy).

Instead of conquering them, he fought a couple of meaningless skirmish battles, bogged down for the winter and then fucked off.

Now if the history books had reported Julius as ruler of Britain it would have been wrong. He got a couple of minor tribal kings to swear allegiance but he couldn't take the country and so 'retired' undefeated as it were in battle but without adding the British Isles to his resume.

So Calzaghe, the modern day conquerer has a chance to go one better than Julius Ceaser if he can pacify the lightheavyweight division and break a 2000 year old record!

He needs to fight Dawson

[Fenster]

If you follow this linear champ stuff to the letter you'd have to say that for a brief period in 2006 Carlos Baldimor was the best fighter in the world at 147 lbs.

Is that really the case?

Did his win over Zab mean it was job done, he'd cleaned up at welterweight and could down in history as an undisputed universally recognised champ?

This is a rhetorical question obviously any answer other than 'FUCKING HELL NO!!!!' is completely wrong

Ive explained to you before being the linear champ doesn't necessarily mean you're the best fighter.

Mate you seem to contradict and repeat yourself so much, please answer me this

Do you class Hopkins as a lightheavy champ?

Yeah of course.

It's not complicated Fenster. I recognise both Hopkins and Calzaghe as light heavyweight champs, I have no problem with people calling Calzaghe a two weight world champ.

BUT he's not the undisputed champion at 175 because he hasn't unified the division and beaten the obvious rival.

He can't claim dominance over the 175 lb division like he can with the 168 lb division because he hasn't beaten all of his rivals.

Look back to the days of Ancient Rome and the triumvirate between Julius Ceaser, Pompey and Marcus Crassus. They each held control over parts of the Roman empire. Crassus was killed in battle at Carhaee and eliminated, and then Ceaser and Pompey slugged it out for the title of Roman Emporer.

Fast forward to now and we have Hopkins, Calzaghe and Dawson all with a claim to the lightheavyweight throne. Hopkins has been defeated and unless he can rally and force calzaghe to do battle again is now out of the running.

That leaves Calzaghe to face Dawson for the crown.

It's great to have a lineage but what's important is for ALL the important fights to be made and for the best fighters to fight each other.

If Calzaghe retires and doesn't fight Dawson, whilst he's still a legend, and all time great he won't have completed his conquest at 175, he would have withdrawn.

Continuing with my Roman analogy, it's like when Ceaser defeated Vercingetorix and conquered the Gauls (supermidlleweight division) and then decided to invade Britain (lightheavy).

Instead of conquering them, he fought a couple of meaningless skirmish battles, bogged down for the winter and then fucked off.

Now if the history books had reported Julius as ruler of Britain it would have been wrong. He got a couple of minor tribal kings to swear allegiance but he couldn't take the country and so 'retired' undefeated as it were in battle but without adding the British Isles to his resume.

So Calzaghe, the modern day conquerer has a chance to go one better than Julius Ceaser if he can pacify the lightheavyweight division and break a 2000 year old record!

He needs to fight Dawson

Thank fuck for that. I'm not reading the rest you nutter.

You accept they didn't need an alphabet to be recognised as champ. That's all ive been getting at from the start.

[ICB]

Fenster remember when i told you when Chad Dawson, beats Antonio Tarver. That people will want Chad Dawson vs Joe Calzaghe more so than Kelly Pavlik vs Joe Calzaghe ? will there you have it a prediction come true

[Kev]

Fenster remember when i told you when Chad Dawson, beats Antonio Tarver. That people will want Chad Dawson vs Joe Calzaghe more so than Kelly Pavlik vs Joe Calzaghe ? will there you have it a prediction come true

To be fair I think it was more Pavlik's tame surrender to Hopkins where he mentally gave up without a fight that meant Dawson became the people's choice.

Had Pavlik beaten Hopkins like he was expected to everyone would be wanting Pavlik Hopkins.

[Kev]

Ive explained to you before being the linear champ doesn't necessarily mean you're the best fighter.

Mate you seem to contradict and repeat yourself so much, please answer me this

Do you class Hopkins as a lightheavy champ?

Yeah of course.

It's not complicated Fenster. I recognise both Hopkins and Calzaghe as light heavyweight champs, I have no problem with people calling Calzaghe a two weight world champ.

BUT he's not the undisputed champion at 175 because he hasn't unified the division and beaten the obvious rival.

He can't claim dominance over the 175 lb division like he can with the 168 lb division because he hasn't beaten all of his rivals.

Look back to the days of Ancient Rome and the triumvirate between Julius Ceaser, Pompey and Marcus Crassus. They each held control over parts of the Roman empire. Crassus was killed in battle at Carhaee and eliminated, and then Ceaser and Pompey slugged it out for the title of Roman Emporer.

Fast forward to now and we have Hopkins, Calzaghe and Dawson all with a claim to the lightheavyweight throne. Hopkins has been defeated and unless he can rally and force calzaghe to do battle again is now out of the running.

That leaves Calzaghe to face Dawson for the crown.

It's great to have a lineage but what's important is for ALL the important fights to be made and for the best fighters to fight each other.

If Calzaghe retires and doesn't fight Dawson, whilst he's still a legend, and all time great he won't have completed his conquest at 175, he would have withdrawn.

Continuing with my Roman analogy, it's like when Ceaser defeated Vercingetorix and conquered the Gauls (supermidlleweight division) and then decided to invade Britain (lightheavy).

Instead of conquering them, he fought a couple of meaningless skirmish battles, bogged down for the winter and then fucked off.

Now if the history books had reported Julius as ruler of Britain it would have been wrong. He got a couple of minor tribal kings to swear allegiance but he couldn't take the country and so 'retired' undefeated as it were in battle but without adding the British Isles to his resume.

So Calzaghe, the modern day conquerer has a chance to go one better than Julius Ceaser if he can pacify the lightheavyweight division and break a 2000 year old record!

He needs to fight Dawson

Thank fuck for that. I'm not reading the rest you nutter.

You accept they didn't need an alphabet to be recognised as champ. That's all ive been getting at from the start.

Fucking read it! I compared Calzaghe to Julius Ceasar, linked the Hopkins, Calzaghe and Dawson to the first triumvirate and likened Calzaghe's current campaign to Caeser's conquest of Gaul and the subsequently aborted attmept at the conquest of Britain. It was a wonderful imaginative piece and you'll be sorry if you don't read it.

[yeayea504]

the same thing will happen that happened to hatton he will get knocked the fuck out if he fights chad an all of his fans will start the racist name callin an cryin an excuses blah blah fuckin blah we all kno hes scared ur scared of what chad can an will do

[TheADE]

Joe is a legend, people slag him for no reason. He aint got punching power but he is a great boxer and proves it time again. He'll kill karl Froch in no time, if he went for chad dawson who's a natural light heavy would be more difficult but he would do it.

[TheADE]

Dawson is average, Joe would outbox

[CFH]

Dawson is average, Joe would outbox

Dawson is way above average. I have no idea who would win between he and Calzaghe, I'm leaning towards Calzaghe, but I'm far from certain.

[Drago]

joe beats dawson, then everyone says dawson over rated

just retire joe u done it all

[RozzySean]

I don't think he needs to fight Dawson, but it would be nice if he would do it. People who are big Calzaghe love to point out that during the reign when he didn't fight anybody decent, there wasn't anybody decent to fight. Maybe that's true. Well, there are plenty good fights out there for him now. I think he's proven that he's still got plenty of gas left in the tank, and it would be nice to see him make another fight against one of the young guns.

Dawson is better than Kessler, better than Lacy, and better than old Roy. Dawson would be one of the biggest challenges of his career. He's just come into his prime. He's been tested against top competition, but he's never fought anybody on Joe's level. As a boxing fan, it's just a great matchup to think about. I give Dawson a legit shot. I won't say that Calzaghe is ducking him if he doesn't fight him. Calzaghe doesn't have to prove anything, but I would like to see him take a real chance and make a great fight. If Joe lost, I wouldn't think any less of him, but if he wins, I would rate him even higher, and I rate him pretty damn high already.