Boxing and brain damage.

[Bomp]

Had a related discussion recently and regarding the no headgear - There was a university running a study at the Ringside Tournament regarding headgear and injury. They had boxers (over 18 yrs old) where headgear fitted with a monitoring device. I have to get the name of the university because I can't remember which one it was. The goal was to collect data for improving the protection of the boxers. I personally am ok with the headgear, but I really don't think it stops any trauma. I'm no doctor or scientist (sorry for stating the obvious), but I don't see how headgear really helps lesson the impact of a blow to the head. It's my understanding that the injurious effect of a blow is the brain jogging against the skull inside of the protective fluid that surrounds the brain after sudden movement. When the head is hit and moved violently in different directions, the skull may change directions faster and independent of the brain (because the brain is floating in the fluid). Think of a person in a falling elevator. If the elevator stops or changes direction quickly, what happens to the people inside? Would they be less injured if the elevator was wrapped in a 10 foot-thick layer of rubber? I don't think so.

I found this study that supports my two cents: Boxing Damages Brain Despite Headgear Protection - Demential pugilistica does not only occur in career boxers, as previously thought; it can also affect amateur boxers - Softpedia and this reference to it: Risking it in the ring - Los Angeles Times. I also found another that said headgear lessons the impact, but it was done in conjunction with USAB, so what else would you expect. It's funny that every study or opinion that says there isn't significant injury comes from a person or group affiliated with boxing with the exception of the BMA that produced this Amateur boxing and risk of chronic traumatic brain injury: systematic review of observational studies -- Loosemore et al., 10.1136/bmj.39342.690220.55 -- BMJ which concluded that there is no strong evidence to associate chronic traumatic brain injury with amateur boxing.

There's no doubt we are involved in a very dangerous sport, but so is football, soccer and cheerleading. I for one am all for any improvement made in the rules to help protect boxers. Unfortunately and fortunately for some - most of that responsibility falls on the coaches. To me nothing is more important than protecting boxers - mine and others.

I did find it interesting though how other sports compare, but boxing is at the top of the list per 1,000 Naysi Sport Scene: Sports Injuries Documented but it is the hardest sport ESPN.com: Page 2 - Sport Skills Difficulty Rankings

Good post. as is the whole thread. Just a comment on your elevator analogy, cushioning the blow DOES save on impact, it's why cars have crumble zones and it's down to the impulse equation. At one point beginning of last century race cars were built like tanks in the thought that if the car survived, then so would the person, how wrong were they. Rubber around a lift would help (just as bungee rope is made from elastic and not chains) but of course it's all relative, you'd need a huge amount of cushion to survive a lift fall of 20 storeys.

On boxing, gloves and headgear don't really help for the reasons stated, they encourage people to hit harder, and PD seems to be caused more by the number of shots taken rather than the guy with a glass jaw getting KO'd all the time. Also (as already mentioned) the added weight of the gloves adds to the momentum, so the effects could come close to cancelling (don't know myself as I haven't read the details on the research.).

Anyway, thought provoking thread, I will be working extra hard on defence this week.


P.S. I remember reading that Ingle's Sheffield gym would spar mainly with body shots, and rarely go at it hard with head shots. Getting used to being hit is essential for boxing so that you're not caught surprised during fight time, however it has to be within reason, getting hit repeatedly WILL NOT help your resistance and gym's who promote that attitude are foolish IMO.

[Trainer Monkey]

Had a related discussion recently and regarding the no headgear - There was a university running a study at the Ringside Tournament regarding headgear and injury. They had boxers (over 18 yrs old) where headgear fitted with a monitoring device. I have to get the name of the university because I can't remember which one it was. The goal was to collect data for improving the protection of the boxers. I personally am ok with the headgear, but I really don't think it stops any trauma. I'm no doctor or scientist (sorry for stating the obvious), but I don't see how headgear really helps lesson the impact of a blow to the head. It's my understanding that the injurious effect of a blow is the brain jogging against the skull inside of the protective fluid that surrounds the brain after sudden movement. When the head is hit and moved violently in different directions, the skull may change directions faster and independent of the brain (because the brain is floating in the fluid). Think of a person in a falling elevator. If the elevator stops or changes direction quickly, what happens to the people inside? Would they be less injured if the elevator was wrapped in a 10 foot-thick layer of rubber? I don't think so.

I found this study that supports my two cents: Boxing Damages Brain Despite Headgear Protection - Demential pugilistica does not only occur in career boxers, as previously thought; it can also affect amateur boxers - Softpedia and this reference to it: Risking it in the ring - Los Angeles Times. I also found another that said headgear lessons the impact, but it was done in conjunction with USAB, so what else would you expect. It's funny that every study or opinion that says there isn't significant injury comes from a person or group affiliated with boxing with the exception of the BMA that produced this Amateur boxing and risk of chronic traumatic brain injury: systematic review of observational studies -- Loosemore et al., 10.1136/bmj.39342.690220.55 -- BMJ which concluded that there is no strong evidence to associate chronic traumatic brain injury with amateur boxing.

There's no doubt we are involved in a very dangerous sport, but so is football, soccer and cheerleading. I for one am all for any improvement made in the rules to help protect boxers. Unfortunately and fortunately for some - most of that responsibility falls on the coaches. To me nothing is more important than protecting boxers - mine and others.

I did find it interesting though how other sports compare, but boxing is at the top of the list per 1,000 Naysi Sport Scene: Sports Injuries Documented but it is the hardest sport ESPN.com: Page 2 - Sport Skills Difficulty Rankings

Good post. as is the whole thread. Just a comment on your elevator analogy, cushioning the blow DOES save on impact, it's why cars have crumble zones and it's down to the impulse equation. At one point beginning of last century race cars were built like tanks in the thought that if the car survived, then so would the person, how wrong were they. Rubber around a lift would help (just as bungee rope is made from elastic and not chains) but of course it's all relative, you'd need a huge amount of cushion to survive a lift fall of 20 storeys.

On boxing, gloves and headgear don't really help for the reasons stated, they encourage people to hit harder, and PD seems to be caused more by the number of shots taken rather than the guy with a glass jaw getting KO'd all the time. Also (as already mentioned) the added weight of the gloves adds to the momentum, so the effects could come close to cancelling (don't know myself as I haven't read the details on the research.).

Anyway, thought provoking thread, I will be working extra hard on defence this week.


P.S. I remember reading that Ingle's Sheffield gym would spar mainly with body shots, and rarely go at it hard with head shots. Getting used to being hit is essential for boxing so that you're not caught surprised during fight time, however it has to be within reason, getting hit repeatedly WILL NOT help your resistance and gym's who promote that attitude are foolish IMO.

One thing I would like either changed or abolished is Reyes glove,if you hear the phrase "punchers glove" your actually hearing the phrase "concussion looking for a place to happen"

[DC Amateur Boxing]

I was listening to a Bernard Hopkins interview on the radio and he talked in depth about how he fought the boxing establishment for years until and how he became financially successful. Anyhow, at one point the deejay asked him 'With all the fights that you have had, how in the world have you kept your brain intact?' Bernard's answer was a simple one . . .'To all the young boxers out there, forget about punching or combos or any of that. . .the best lesson that I learned and can give is to learn how to duck.' He went on the say that he was serious, learning how to avoid punches was very important for him and is the only reason that he has been able to fight and still retain his intelligence into his 40's.