A paradox about p4p rankings

[Scrap]

Bilbo if you understand it, it makes perfect sense

[TitoFan]

P4p is an attempt to compare, on an even keel, fighters that can't be compared conventionally because of the weight difference. It's a bit like when you say "per capita". For instance, a city like Detroit might have less crime overall than New York City, let's say. But maybe if you compare based on a "per capita" basis, Detroit might have more crime. You need to compare things which have a common denominator.

[Kev]

P4p is an attempt to compare, on an even keel, fighters that can't be compared conventionally because of the weight difference. It's a bit like when you say "per capita". For instance, a city like Detroit might have less crime overall than New York City, let's say. But maybe if you compare based on a "per capita" basis, Detroit might have more crime. You need to compare things which have a common denominator.

I'm always impressed by people who manage to say in one sentence what it takes me at least a couple paragraphs to articulate

I think I need some kind of bluster control

[Kev]

Bilbo if you understand it, it makes perfect sense

You mean like salvation..............and marmite?

[CGM]

To be honest Bilbo, I don't disagree with you, and I don't have anything better to offer. I'm just pointing out what I consider to be a flaw in the concept.

Like I said, it will be interesting to see how Ring Magazine handles it. Will they rank PAC as a welterweight, and will they rank him as the #1 welterweight, assuming he still has his p4p #1 status. Same question applies to JWW, seeing as how it looks like he will fight Hatton.

So how do you see it? How do you think Ring magazine will/should rank PAC?

Me, I do not think Ring will rank him #1 p4p without being #1 in a particular division.

[antimoron]

To be honest Bilbo, I don't disagree with you, and I don't have anything better to offer. I'm just pointing out what I consider to be a flaw in the concept.

Like I said, it will be interesting to see how Ring Magazine handles it. Will they rank PAC as a welterweight, and will they rank him as the #1 welterweight, assuming he still has his p4p #1 status. Same question applies to JWW, seeing as how it looks like he will fight Hatton.

So how do you see it? How do you think Ring magazine will/should rank PAC?

Me, I do not think Ring will rank him #1 p4p without being #1 in a particular division.

they will not rank him on welter and jr. welter... they have him on lightweight... Pac defies weight classes that makes him special..

[CGM]

To be honest Bilbo, I don't disagree with you, and I don't have anything better to offer. I'm just pointing out what I consider to be a flaw in the concept.

Like I said, it will be interesting to see how Ring Magazine handles it. Will they rank PAC as a welterweight, and will they rank him as the #1 welterweight, assuming he still has his p4p #1 status. Same question applies to JWW, seeing as how it looks like he will fight Hatton.

So how do you see it? How do you think Ring magazine will/should rank PAC?

Me, I do not think Ring will rank him #1 p4p without being #1 in a particular division.

they will not rank him on welter and jr. welter... they have him on lightweight... Pac defies weight classes that makes him special..

OK I guessed wrong. They have him at #2 lightweight, behind Marquez and Campbell, and #5 Welterweight, and #1 pfp. As of Dec 14. Go figure.

[antimoron]

To be honest Bilbo, I don't disagree with you, and I don't have anything better to offer. I'm just pointing out what I consider to be a flaw in the concept.

Like I said, it will be interesting to see how Ring Magazine handles it. Will they rank PAC as a welterweight, and will they rank him as the #1 welterweight, assuming he still has his p4p #1 status. Same question applies to JWW, seeing as how it looks like he will fight Hatton.

So how do you see it? How do you think Ring magazine will/should rank PAC?

Me, I do not think Ring will rank him #1 p4p without being #1 in a particular division.

they will not rank him on welter and jr. welter... they have him on lightweight... Pac defies weight classes that makes him special..

OK I guessed wrong. They have him at #2 lightweight, behind Marquez and Campbell, and #5 Welterweight, and #1 pfp. As of Dec 14. Go figure.

ok i saw it.. man that welter rank is too much... #5? RING MAG? got to talk to doug f. about it..

[Kev]

To be honest Bilbo, I don't disagree with you, and I don't have anything better to offer. I'm just pointing out what I consider to be a flaw in the concept.

Like I said, it will be interesting to see how Ring Magazine handles it. Will they rank PAC as a welterweight, and will they rank him as the #1 welterweight, assuming he still has his p4p #1 status. Same question applies to JWW, seeing as how it looks like he will fight Hatton.

So how do you see it? How do you think Ring magazine will/should rank PAC?

Me, I do not think Ring will rank him #1 p4p without being #1 in a particular division.

The Ring rankings for Manny are a little strange to be honest.

He's rated number in the world p4p, number 3 at lightweight behind Marquez and Campbell and number 5 at welterweight, a division that has no champ.

It appears strange but not really when you consider that all the rankings are based on different factors.

At lightweight, Marquez defeated Casamayor who was the linear champ, something very important to the Ring who follow the belt lineage like it's the line of David so Marquez is number 1. Campbell is at 2 at lightweight as he defeated Juan Diaz who by overwhelming and universal consent was seen as the best at lightweight having unified 2, maybe even 3 belts I can't remember whilst Casamayor was looking God awful.

Manny got his belt by beating the weakest link in David Diaz so at lightweight those rankings make sense, based on acomplishments within that division.

At welter he's number 5 behind Margarito, Cotto, Mosely and Clottey, with Williams and Floyd no longer rated as Paul moved up and Floyd retired.

Again based on acomplishments within that weight class the Ring have it spot on imo.

But when it comes to p4p the weight classes are disregarded and the fighters's acomplishments overall are taken into account irrespective of weight.

Manny has been on fire the last couple years and has a record that is hands down the best of any current fighter so he is overwhelmingly the p4p best in the world.

Does that mean I think he could beat Paul Williams or Tony Margarito? Hell no he's too small, but it's irelevent, this is p4p and wins in 3 weight classes with two world titles and a win over a legend who lost a split decision to the other p4p best Floyd only two fights prior means Manny has acomplished the most of any fighter currently in action.

So in conclusion, he's p4p the number 1, at lightweight number 3 and at welterweight number 5.

Confusing, not at all

[CGM]

heh heh heh. cheers Bilbo good posts. reps on their way.

[Kev]

heh heh heh. cheers Bilbo reps on their way.

Thanks buddy, actually whilst I'm on my soap box.......

Remember the p4p rankings at least those from the Ring are carried out as objectively as possible using scientific method and based on performances and acomplishment's

Who you think would beat who is irelevent, it's the actual fights that have taken place that count.

So you thinking Manny should be downgraded from p4p number 1 status now he has fought at welter because in your opinion he would lose to Margarito makes a mockery of the ranking system.

It's not based on opinion but fact and actual results.

If Manny and Margarito fought and Manny lost he would no longer be p4p number 1, as he would have been beaten. He'd drop down a place or two.

But you can't drop him before the fight has even happened because you assume he would lose as that's ridiculous and makes the rankings nothing more than your opinion of who would win what fights.

And when we consider that everybody thought Oscar would beat Manny easily as well...............

[antimoron]

heh heh heh. cheers Bilbo reps on their way.

Thanks buddy, actually whilst I'm on my soap box.......

Remember the p4p rankings at least those from the Ring are carried out as objectively as possible using scientific method and based on performances and acomplishment's

Who you think would beat who is irelevent, it's the actual fights that have taken place that count.

So you thinking Manny should be downgraded from p4p number 1 status now he has fought at welter because in your opinion he would lose to Margarito makes a mockery of the ranking system.

It's not based on opinion but fact and actual results.

If Manny and Margarito fought and Manny lost he would no longer be p4p number 1, as he would have been beaten. He'd drop down a place or two.

But you can't drop him before the fight has even happened because you assume he would lose as that's ridiculous and makes the rankings nothing more than your opinion of who would win what fights.

And when we consider that everybody thought Oscar would beat Manny easily as well...............

well said there sir...

[CGM]

heh heh heh. cheers Bilbo reps on their way.

Thanks buddy, actually whilst I'm on my soap box.......

Remember the p4p rankings at least those from the Ring are carried out as objectively as possible using scientific method and based on performances and acomplishment's

Who you think would beat who is irelevent, it's the actual fights that have taken place that count.

So you thinking Manny should be downgraded from p4p number 1 status now he has fought at welter because in your opinion he would lose to Margarito makes a mockery of the ranking system.

It's not based on opinion but fact and actual results.

If Manny and Margarito fought and Manny lost he would no longer be p4p number 1, as he would have been beaten. He'd drop down a place or two.

But you can't drop him before the fight has even happened because you assume he would lose as that's ridiculous and makes the rankings nothing more than your opinion of who would win what fights.

And when we consider that everybody thought Oscar would beat Manny easily as well...............

p4p rankings not subject to opinion? Facts and actual results only? Okaaaayyyy, if you say so. I'm going to withdraw those reps if you keep making statements like that.