Does anybody think Valuev won?

[porkypara]

Normaly when there are controvercial judges score cards there are some who think they got it wrong and some who think they got it right.

Does anybody think they got it right last night?

[Preme]

Normaly when there are controvercial judges score cards there are some who think they got it wrong and some who think they got it right.

Does anybody think they got it right last night?

Soon as i find the fight on rapidshare to download i'll let you know mush

[Kel]

You can't even begin to make a case for Valuev, he did nothing at all the whole fight.

Evander bounced around on his toes and Valuev had no answer for it...............he never needed an answer though because he already had the fight in the bag

[porkypara]

You can't even begin to make a case for Valuev, he did nothing at all the whole fight.

Evander bounced around on his toes and Valuev had no answer for it...............he never needed an answer though because he already had the fight in the bag

Yes even though EH did not do much I think it was his footwork that did not let Valuev get his shots off.

[liz]

there is no way in hell Valuev won. he didnt give off any shots, the only thing he did was get dizzy going round in circles following holyfield.

[porkypara]

Wonder what the punch stats were?

[J_C]

I have to admit I thought it was a very close fight, literally due to NOTHING happening. It was maybe the worst fight ive ever seen. I'll also admit I had it 115-114 Valuev.

I was really confused by the American commentary thinking Holyfield was winning every round more or less, so I trawled the forums and found almost everybody had a similar result, which has led to me registering to post.

Lets be honest - both fighters threw f all and landed f all. So imo a lot of the rounds came down to how you interpret movement and aggression and all of that. The poster above, Kel, says 'Evander bounced around on his toes and Valuev had no answer for it'....but could this not be interpreted as Evander just backing off and running away refusing to engage...and therefore being the fighter on the backfoot and defensive? If thats the case no one threw anything really, then that would be giving rounds to Valuev would it not?

Obviously Valuev was extremely static, but he did own the centre of the ring and was providing more forward movement and lamely pawing out with the jab some. Imo its no good backing off and circling being on your toes IF you dont throw something as well, it just looks like youre scared to engage in combat. Its a shame cos I wanted Holyfield to win and it was really there for the taking if he just could have gone in and out a bit more (eg more than once a round).

[Kel]

Wonder what the punch stats were?

Did they show any? I don't remember seeing them

[J_C]

there is no way in hell Valuev won. he didnt give off any shots, the only thing he did was get dizzy going round in circles following holyfield.

This comment also echoes my points I was trying to illustrate. If we can agree that neither fighter threw anything of substance in a lot of the rounds, then how is Holyfield winning the rounds by allowing Valuev to follow him around the ring (albeit bloody slowly).

[GAME]

there is no way in hell Valuev won. he didnt give off any shots, the only thing he did was get dizzy going round in circles following holyfield.

This comment also echoes my points I was trying to illustrate. If we can agree that neither fighter threw anything of substance in a lot of the rounds, then how is Holyfield winning the rounds by allowing Valuev to follow him around the ring (albeit bloody slowly).

Cuz Holyfield was countering him

[porkypara]

I have to admit I thought it was a very close fight, literally due to NOTHING happening. It was maybe the worst fight ive ever seen. I'll also admit I had it 115-114 Valuev.

I was really confused by the American commentary thinking Holyfield was winning every round more or less, so I trawled the forums and found almost everybody had a similar result, which has led to me registering to post.

Lets be honest - both fighters threw f all and landed f all. So imo a lot of the rounds came down to how you interpret movement and aggression and all of that. The poster above, Kel, says 'Evander bounced around on his toes and Valuev had no answer for it'....but could this not be interpreted as Evander just backing off and running away refusing to engage...and therefore being the fighter on the backfoot and defensive? If thats the case no one threw anything really, then that would be giving rounds to Valuev would it not?

Obviously Valuev was extremely static, but he did own the centre of the ring and was providing more forward movement and lamely pawing out with the jab some. Imo its no good backing off and circling being on your toes IF you dont throw something as well, it just looks like youre scared to engage in combat. Its a shame cos I wanted Holyfield to win and it was really there for the taking if he just could have gone in and out a bit more (eg more than once a round).

To be honest I have been thinking if I let the commontators influnce my opinion.
I did not have a very good quality picture to watch it and might have missed bits.
I am hoping to watch it again.

I dont agree with what you posted but fair play to you for having the balls to go against the flow.

[Kel]

there is no way in hell Valuev won. he didnt give off any shots, the only thing he did was get dizzy going round in circles following holyfield.

This comment also echoes my points I was trying to illustrate. If we can agree that neither fighter threw anything of substance in a lot of the rounds, then how is Holyfield winning the rounds by allowing Valuev to follow him around the ring (albeit bloody slowly).

Ok, Holyfield landed more punches than Valuev no doubt at all in my mind about that.

When rounds are slow with nothing much going on you can score that round on ring generalship. He took away Valuev's attack by using lateral movement, something he(Valuev) could not adapt to.

How did you manage to score the fight in Valuev's favour anyway?

[J_C]

I wanted to see Holyfield counterpunch believe me but I didnt hardly see that really I have to say. Not anything to do with Holy not countering when Valuev landed of course but EVRYTHING to do with the whole fight being fought out of range! There was nothing to counter cos nothing was happening! It was an absolutely bizzare fight, like Holyfield fought if he stayed out of range and circled enough eventually Valuev would get dizzy and hit the deck

[J_C]

[/quote]Ok, Holyfield landed more punches than Valuev no doubt at all in my mind about that.

When rounds are slow with nothing much going on you can score that round on ring generalship. He took away Valuev's attack by using lateral movement, something he(Valuev) could not adapt to.[/quote]

I thought Valuev threw more, Holyfield landed more. Id be very interested in seeing the punch stats (where can we get hold of them?).

I totally see your point but the counter argument is that there is a fine line between executing this gameplan and just running away staying out of range. Is taking away Valuevs attack by ignoring your own enough to win a round. I totally see Holy's gameplan and it was executed well enough in some rounds, its just a shame he couldnt have gone in and out more as then there would have been a clear winner (in my eyes).

There were a bunch of rounds where Holyfield threw nothing and just circled staying out of harms way. Valuev followed him around slowly and pawed out the jab, rarely landing but pawing out all the same. Imo those are Valuev rounds.

[El Kabong]

Perhaps the judges misunderstood the scoring, they may have been using the Yehti rules (a common mistake in Russia) in which case Ring Generalship is swapped out for who has the most pronounced forehead, Clean Punches are changed out for hairiness, and good defense is put aside for height.......in which case Nicolay Valuev CLEARLY dominated Holyfield......by the Yehti rules of course, in boxing he got his big ass whupt