What country has produced the best all around fighters during the past 60 years?

[JazMerkin]

He obviously wouldn't have gone too far considering Herbie bashed him up good and proper.

Also.. It's a bit naughty to class those guys as Jamaican. Honeyghan is British of Jamacian descent. He has lived in South London, England since he was a little kid.

No, Honeyghan was born in Jamaica, and grew up in Britain. A Brit of Jamaican descent would be someone like Chris Eubank who was 2nd generation. You will also find that guys from the Caribbean who grew up here will class themselves as Jamaican/Trinidadian/St. Lucian rather than British, particularly man like Honeyghan who grew up in South-East London in the 70's. My uncles & most the people where I live are the same, even some 2nd gen or 3rd gen guys my age don't see themselves as British now.

Oh right.

I too have lots of friends that class themselves as British (Born here) but acknowledge their Caribbean roots.

That's different from someone born here but claims they're Jamaican/Trinidadian/St. Lucian rather than British, right?

What does Honeyghan class himself as then?

I saw an interview with Spencer Fearon & Honeyghan seemed to class himself as Jamaican rather than British, as he seemed to talk about himself in the context of Jamaican fighters such as Mike McCallum rather than any British guys.

Yeah that is different, because whilst a lot of people will go 'my family come from...", I know some of bredrins will just go 'nah I ain't British, I'm from Jamaica' or something like that. I think with a lot of older guys (like the generations above mine, I'm 22) they experienced a more open racism than we have, as the NF & BNP used to be a lot more prominent around here, so they feel less of an attachment to being British. At the end of the day it's all down to personal choice & your interactions with people around you.

[TitoFan]

In terms of per capita world champions (and in descending order):

1. Puerto Rico
2. Panama
3. U.S.
4. Dominican Republic
5. Venezuela
6. Mexico
7. Cuba
8. England

Found this video and in terms of world champions Mexico is #2 in terms of World Champions behind the US (I'm assuming as of the time the video was made and it looks pretty old.) I know you boast P.R. is #1 per capita (population) but a champion is a champion regardless, should have fought for more land for P.R. Just kidding.

The video is in spanish but it states that fact in the first minute or so. It's actually a good video although cut short.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxhcz5JFS0M

Technical slipup there, Onix my friend.

Per capita is a comparison based on population, not square miles of land. And while it's true that both the U.S. [425] and Mexico [108] have had more world champions than Puerto Rico [40], when seen on a per capita basis both fall far short of Puerto Rico. Hence, my numbers.

[Boxrec - July 2008]

[Spicoli]

How about a little love for Japan
Also while maybe not the most 'skilled' but Korea/South produced some of the toughest & bravest

[TitoFan]

How about a little love for Japan
Also while maybe not the most 'skilled' but Korea/South produced some of the toughest & bravest

Japan - 18th per capita world champions
Korea - 12th

[holmcall]

How about a little love for Japan
Also while maybe not the most 'skilled' but Korea/South produced some of the toughest & bravest

I'd go with Japan as having the best stylists and Korea for sheer bravery.

[holmcall]

No, Honeyghan was born in Jamaica, and grew up in Britain. A Brit of Jamaican descent would be someone like Chris Eubank who was 2nd generation. You will also find that guys from the Caribbean who grew up here will class themselves as Jamaican/Trinidadian/St. Lucian rather than British, particularly man like Honeyghan who grew up in South-East London in the 70's. My uncles & most the people where I live are the same, even some 2nd gen or 3rd gen guys my age don't see themselves as British now.

Oh right.

I too have lots of friends that class themselves as British (Born here) but acknowledge their Caribbean roots.

That's different from someone born here but claims they're Jamaican/Trinidadian/St. Lucian rather than British, right?

What does Honeyghan class himself as then?

I saw an interview with Spencer Fearon & Honeyghan seemed to class himself as Jamaican rather than British, as he seemed to talk about himself in the context of Jamaican fighters such as Mike McCallum rather than any British guys.

Yeah that is different, because whilst a lot of people will go 'my family come from...", I know some of bredrins will just go 'nah I ain't British, I'm from Jamaica' or something like that. I think with a lot of older guys (like the generations above mine, I'm 22) they experienced a more open racism than we have, as the NF & BNP used to be a lot more prominent around here, so they feel less of an attachment to being British. At the end of the day it's all down to personal choice & your interactions with people around you.

Well then, he would say "Yha Mon!"

[Onix]

In terms of per capita world champions (and in descending order):

1. Puerto Rico
2. Panama
3. U.S.
4. Dominican Republic
5. Venezuela
6. Mexico
7. Cuba
8. England

Found this video and in terms of world champions Mexico is #2 in terms of World Champions behind the US (I'm assuming as of the time the video was made and it looks pretty old.) I know you boast P.R. is #1 per capita (population) but a champion is a champion regardless, should have fought for more land for P.R. Just kidding.

The video is in spanish but it states that fact in the first minute or so. It's actually a good video although cut short.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxhcz5JFS0M

Technical slipup there, Onix my friend.

Per capita is a comparison based on population, not square miles of land. And while it's true that both the U.S. [425] and Mexico [108] have had more world champions than Puerto Rico [40], when seen on a per capita basis both fall far short of Puerto Rico. Hence, my numbers.

[Boxrec - July 2008]

Well I did write in their population, but if you would have fought for more land, you would have have more people. Thats the way I meant it.

[holmcall]

Right now (2009), I am leaning toward PR even though I said the past 60 years. Damm, that Island has produced some truly great champions. Gomez, Benitez, Torres, Escobar, Trinidad, Cotto, JML, Camacho, Vazquez, Ortiz, Escalara, Molina, Rosario, Ramos, Laporte,--even Joe "Unfair but Firm" Cortez who had a record of eighteen wins and one defeat as a professional boxer.

There have been many others like Jose Monon Gonzalez who never made champion but were truly top notch bangers.

Then again, you go back 60 years and some of the Cubans were truly great fighters. Guys like the "Keed," Isaac Logart, the Bombon Kid, Florentino Fernandez who was a monster bomber, Nino Valdez, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Kid Paret, Jose Napoles, Kid Chocolate (136-10-6). But I still don't think they compare to PR.

[Sir Valentine]

Okay lets not complicate the topic with per capita non sense and other absord stuff. the answer is simply the U.S.A and MEXICO / MEXICO and U.S.A. which means both of these countries traditionally have had the best boxing schools. both of these two countries have produced the most champions have developed the best boxing techniques have had the best and most knowledgeble trainers. most big pay-perview events are controlled by American and Mexican fighters. sure you get other great fighters from different nationalities in these pay-per view events but the but the numbers don't lie. these two great boxing/fighting countries dominate the numbers in champions/quality of champions/pay-perview sells you name it they own it past and present future we will see. dont get me wrong i enjoy fighters from all over the world but the numbers are real you cant deny it.

[WEILAND]

1. USA
2. Mexico
3. Britain

[TitoFan]

Okay lets not complicate the topic with per capita non sense and other absord stuff. the answer is simply the U.S.A and MEXICO / MEXICO and U.S.A. which means both of these countries traditionally have had the best boxing schools. both of these two countries have produced the most champions have developed the best boxing techniques have had the best and most knowledgeble trainers. most big pay-perview events are controlled by American and Mexican fighters. sure you get other great fighters from different nationalities in these pay-per view events but the but the numbers don't lie. these two great boxing/fighting countries dominate the numbers in champions/quality of champions/pay-perview sells you name it they own it past and present future we will see. dont get me wrong i enjoy fighters from all over the world but the numbers are real you cant deny it.

"Per capita nonsense"? Really brilliant there, bud. Some people choose to call "nonsense" that which they do not understand. So I'll try to go slower.

You can measure numbers in absolute terms, or you can compare them using common denominators. It's like income... income is commonly measured "per capita", because it's a more clear measure of the wealth or lack thereof of a country's inhabitants.

So if you compare in absolute terms, yes... the U.S. and Mexico have the largest number of world champions (425 and 108, respectively). But when you figure their respective populations (apx 305 million and 108 million, respectively), it comes out to about 1.4 champs per million people for the U.S., and about 1.0 champs per million people for Mexico. By contrast, Puerto Rico has 40 world champs and a population of roughly 4 million people, yielding a rate of about 10.0 champs per million people.

If it helps, I'll take you through the arithmetic.

[CGM]

It would be interesting to see some of these numbers in terms of percentages of population that actually get involved in professional boxing, or whether or not the existence of an amateur program had any significance. Someone who remembered all their statistics courses (not me) should be able to swing that pretty easily.

[Mr140]

Well if you look at how good the Champions are though Tito US wins i mean all you got to do is look at the ATG top 10 for most people do you ever see a PR no but i see alot of americans though you may have us on per capa but i think that the US makes the better champions tell you truth Most of the time i would think the US comes out on top like Bernard over Tito or my favorite PR fighter Benitez getting beat by my favorite fighter peroid Sugar Ray Leonard so i would say the USA has the most and the best i mean all the most known and greats have come from here.

[TitoFan]

Well if you look at how good the Champions are though Tito US wins i mean all you got to do is look at the ATG top 10 for most people do you ever see a PR no but i see alot of americans though you may have us on per capa but i think that the US makes the better champions tell you truth Most of the time i would think the US comes out on top like Bernard over Tito or my favorite PR fighter Benitez getting beat by my favorite fighter peroid Sugar Ray Leonard so i would say the USA has the most and the best i mean all the most known and greats have come from here.

Oh... it's you again.

The point I was making was about number of champions, both absolute and on a per capita basis. On the matter of quality of champions, I'm afraid I have no statistical data. By the way... when you say "American", be more specific, as the term American applies to anyone who inhabits the North, Central, or South American countries.

As to your point that the U.S. has produced quality champions? Of course. When you've had over 400 world champions in the course of boxing history, you're bound to have quite a few ATGs.

None of that changes the fact that Puerto Rico, given its small size and population, is an international hotbed of boxing champions. And none of that belittles or diminishes any other country's boxing history or accomplishments.

[rjj tszyu]

I think I'd have to go:

Mexico
USA
Puerto Rico
UK

And now if you look at the former Soviet Union you have quite a few decent fighters especially in the heavier divisions but people like Tszyu and Karmazin in the lower divisions.