What country has produced the best all around fighters during the past 60 years?

[holmcall]

Right now (2009), I am leaning toward PR even though I said the past 60 years. Damm, that Island has produced some truly great champions. Gomez, Benitez, Torres, Escobar, Trinidad, Cotto, JML, Camacho, Vazquez, Ortiz, Escalara, Molina, Rosario, Ramos, Laporte,--even Joe "Unfair but Firm" Cortez who had a record of eighteen wins and one defeat as a professional boxer.

There have been many others like Jose Monon Gonzalez who never made champion but were truly top notch bangers.

Then again, you go back 60 years and some of the Cubans were truly great fighters. Guys like the "Keed," Isaac Logart, the Bombon Kid, Florentino Fernandez who was a monster bomber, Nino Valdez, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Kid Paret, Jose Napoles, Kid Chocolate (136-10-6). But I still don't think they compare to PR.

[Sir Valentine]

Okay lets not complicate the topic with per capita non sense and other absord stuff. the answer is simply the U.S.A and MEXICO / MEXICO and U.S.A. which means both of these countries traditionally have had the best boxing schools. both of these two countries have produced the most champions have developed the best boxing techniques have had the best and most knowledgeble trainers. most big pay-perview events are controlled by American and Mexican fighters. sure you get other great fighters from different nationalities in these pay-per view events but the but the numbers don't lie. these two great boxing/fighting countries dominate the numbers in champions/quality of champions/pay-perview sells you name it they own it past and present future we will see. dont get me wrong i enjoy fighters from all over the world but the numbers are real you cant deny it.

[TitoFan]

Okay lets not complicate the topic with per capita non sense and other absord stuff. the answer is simply the U.S.A and MEXICO / MEXICO and U.S.A. which means both of these countries traditionally have had the best boxing schools. both of these two countries have produced the most champions have developed the best boxing techniques have had the best and most knowledgeble trainers. most big pay-perview events are controlled by American and Mexican fighters. sure you get other great fighters from different nationalities in these pay-per view events but the but the numbers don't lie. these two great boxing/fighting countries dominate the numbers in champions/quality of champions/pay-perview sells you name it they own it past and present future we will see. dont get me wrong i enjoy fighters from all over the world but the numbers are real you cant deny it.

"Per capita nonsense"? Really brilliant there, bud. Some people choose to call "nonsense" that which they do not understand. So I'll try to go slower.

You can measure numbers in absolute terms, or you can compare them using common denominators. It's like income... income is commonly measured "per capita", because it's a more clear measure of the wealth or lack thereof of a country's inhabitants.

So if you compare in absolute terms, yes... the U.S. and Mexico have the largest number of world champions (425 and 108, respectively). But when you figure their respective populations (apx 305 million and 108 million, respectively), it comes out to about 1.4 champs per million people for the U.S., and about 1.0 champs per million people for Mexico. By contrast, Puerto Rico has 40 world champs and a population of roughly 4 million people, yielding a rate of about 10.0 champs per million people.

If it helps, I'll take you through the arithmetic.

[CGM]

It would be interesting to see some of these numbers in terms of percentages of population that actually get involved in professional boxing, or whether or not the existence of an amateur program had any significance. Someone who remembered all their statistics courses (not me) should be able to swing that pretty easily.

[Mr140]

Well if you look at how good the Champions are though Tito US wins i mean all you got to do is look at the ATG top 10 for most people do you ever see a PR no but i see alot of americans though you may have us on per capa but i think that the US makes the better champions tell you truth Most of the time i would think the US comes out on top like Bernard over Tito or my favorite PR fighter Benitez getting beat by my favorite fighter peroid Sugar Ray Leonard so i would say the USA has the most and the best i mean all the most known and greats have come from here.

[TitoFan]

Well if you look at how good the Champions are though Tito US wins i mean all you got to do is look at the ATG top 10 for most people do you ever see a PR no but i see alot of americans though you may have us on per capa but i think that the US makes the better champions tell you truth Most of the time i would think the US comes out on top like Bernard over Tito or my favorite PR fighter Benitez getting beat by my favorite fighter peroid Sugar Ray Leonard so i would say the USA has the most and the best i mean all the most known and greats have come from here.

Oh... it's you again.

The point I was making was about number of champions, both absolute and on a per capita basis. On the matter of quality of champions, I'm afraid I have no statistical data. By the way... when you say "American", be more specific, as the term American applies to anyone who inhabits the North, Central, or South American countries.

As to your point that the U.S. has produced quality champions? Of course. When you've had over 400 world champions in the course of boxing history, you're bound to have quite a few ATGs.

None of that changes the fact that Puerto Rico, given its small size and population, is an international hotbed of boxing champions. And none of that belittles or diminishes any other country's boxing history or accomplishments.

[Onix]

Okay lets not complicate the topic with per capita non sense and other absord stuff. the answer is simply the U.S.A and MEXICO / MEXICO and U.S.A. which means both of these countries traditionally have had the best boxing schools. both of these two countries have produced the most champions have developed the best boxing techniques have had the best and most knowledgeble trainers. most big pay-perview events are controlled by American and Mexican fighters. sure you get other great fighters from different nationalities in these pay-per view events but the but the numbers don't lie. these two great boxing/fighting countries dominate the numbers in champions/quality of champions/pay-perview sells you name it they own it past and present future we will see. dont get me wrong i enjoy fighters from all over the world but the numbers are real you cant deny it.

"Per capita nonsense"? Really brilliant there, bud. Some people choose to call "nonsense" that which they do not understand. So I'll try to go slower.

You can measure numbers in absolute terms, or you can compare them using common denominators. It's like income... income is commonly measured "per capita", because it's a more clear measure of the wealth or lack thereof of a country's inhabitants.

So if you compare in absolute terms, yes... the U.S. and Mexico have the largest number of world champions (425 and 108, respectively). But when you figure their respective populations (apx 305 million and 108 million, respectively), it comes out to about 1.4 champs per million people for the U.S., and about 1.0 champs per million people for Mexico. By contrast, Puerto Rico has 40 world champs and a population of roughly 4 million people, yielding a rate of about 10.0 champs per million people.

If it helps, I'll take you through the arithmetic.

Tito Im sure you know this one, in the rivalry between Mexico and P.R. whats the score? I dont know the answer so I'm not trying be a dick.

As far as the Per Capita argument, I dont think you are "complicating it" but you are disecting the question to win the argument, if we break it down more and more we we can figure a way to get every country coming out on top. One may be tge best per capita, one by overall greatness of champions, one by number of names in an atg p4p list. As much as we would like to have the country we support/are from to have the best it just does'nt happen for everyone.

[TitoFan]

Okay lets not complicate the topic with per capita non sense and other absord stuff. the answer is simply the U.S.A and MEXICO / MEXICO and U.S.A. which means both of these countries traditionally have had the best boxing schools. both of these two countries have produced the most champions have developed the best boxing techniques have had the best and most knowledgeble trainers. most big pay-perview events are controlled by American and Mexican fighters. sure you get other great fighters from different nationalities in these pay-per view events but the but the numbers don't lie. these two great boxing/fighting countries dominate the numbers in champions/quality of champions/pay-perview sells you name it they own it past and present future we will see. dont get me wrong i enjoy fighters from all over the world but the numbers are real you cant deny it.

"Per capita nonsense"? Really brilliant there, bud. Some people choose to call "nonsense" that which they do not understand. So I'll try to go slower.

You can measure numbers in absolute terms, or you can compare them using common denominators. It's like income... income is commonly measured "per capita", because it's a more clear measure of the wealth or lack thereof of a country's inhabitants.

So if you compare in absolute terms, yes... the U.S. and Mexico have the largest number of world champions (425 and 108, respectively). But when you figure their respective populations (apx 305 million and 108 million, respectively), it comes out to about 1.4 champs per million people for the U.S., and about 1.0 champs per million people for Mexico. By contrast, Puerto Rico has 40 world champs and a population of roughly 4 million people, yielding a rate of about 10.0 champs per million people.

If it helps, I'll take you through the arithmetic.

Tito Im sure you know this one, in the rivalry between Mexico and P.R. whats the score? I dont know the answer so I'm not trying be a dick.

As far as the Per Capita argument, I dont think you are "complicating it" but you are disecting the question to win the argument, if we break it down more and more we we can figure a way to get every country coming out on top. One may be tge best per capita, one by overall greatness of champions, one by number of names in an atg p4p list. As much as we would like to have the country we support/are from to have the best it just does'nt happen for everyone.

Don't worry, Onix... I don't think you're trying to be a dick.

As for the PR-Mexico score, there's been huge victories on both sides... so I wouldn't venture to say it's one-sided one way or the other.

As for the part I bolded... too bad you feel that way. It's not a matter of "breaking it down every which way so every country will come out on top". It's a matter of simple arithmetic. It just burns me when people who have little knowledge of international boxing (present company excluded, of course), spout off about the only countries having rich boxing histories and traditions being the U.S. and Mexico. That's just plain ignorant, and I'll stand on my soapbox all day to dismiss that argument.

[Mr140]

All i said Tito was that what your saying is your produce more champions based on population all i am saying if you look at the top 10 even top 20 all time greats i would say you proably have more US fighters then any country i not knocking you your right i just putting out a point. When i say from the US i mean born here Sugar Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommey Hearns and the list goes on people that were born here is what i meant sorry if i was not clear but that was what i was getting at.

[TitoFan]

All i said Tito was that what your saying is your produce more champions based on population all i am saying if you look at the top 10 even top 20 all time greats i would say you proably have more US fighters then any country i not knocking you your right i just putting out a point. When i say from the US i mean born here Sugar Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommey Hearns and the list goes on people that were born here is what i meant sorry if i was not clear but that was what i was getting at.

I have no disagreement with what you just said.

[Mr140]

Also if you look at how many Champions are in different weight classes i would have to say that the USA has that cover as well and in the main watch divisions we have had in the bag for the most part so its all at what your looking at i was just pointing out some things that is all.