Hamed/Marquez

[Andre]

If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

If that is so, does it mean Pac is ducking JMM now? JMM wants the rematch and Pac ain't giving it to him.
Remember when Pac first said "No" to ODLH? Does it mean Pac was ducking ODLH? Nope, he just wanted a bigger buck. See what I mean?
Asking for a bigger buck and ducking someone are very different.

Agreed men at that level of the game dont duck as the name impiles fear.

Its timing the whole thing is timing in and out of the ring.
Managers are about timing/ Money .Trainers are timing/timing .
Fighters timing / glory /then the money.

Taking time out from a loss ,putting a match or two in between a loss is the safest way to redevelop your style to go back at one person with the correct sparring partners for any rematch. Its acceptable although not mentioned out front.
It would of been fantastic to have had a three way Mexican fight for the Grand Championship between Jmm Barrera and Moralles at the correct time though.
The Fans wanted it.
Throw Naz and that Koko guy from Hungary into that mix at the correct time and we would had an epic year.

[rene69]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

[Onix]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

I didnt know this exact scenario, but I was going to make a comment regarding this. Just cuz you are waiting for two years and suddenly decline a fight doesnt mean you ducked, it could exactly the situation that you described, given two weeks to prepare for a fight?! Joke. With an offer like that you can see who was ducking who.

[Fenster]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

Marquez was offered the fight Augie Sanchez took on the 19-08-2000

Marquez then fought Daniel Jimenez eight days later on the 27-08-2000

You sure you remember right?

[ICB]

Regardless of who ducked who JMM would of smacked Naseem Hamed all over the ring, he is a better counter puncher than MAB. And everytime Naseem Hamed would leap in with his wild punches, JMM would of hurt him badly.

I could possible see JMM knocking down Naseem Hamed atleast 2 times en route to a decision win, just because Naseem Hamed's balance was all over the place, and a counter like JMM would for certain take advantage of that.

[Fenster]

Regardless of who ducked who JMM would of smacked Naseem Hamed all over the ring, he is a better counter puncher than MAB. And everytime Naseem Hamed would leap in with his wild punches, JMM would of hurt him badly.

I could possible see JMM knocking down Naseem Hamed atleast 2 times en route to a decision win, just because Naseem Hamed's balance was all over the place, and a counter like JMM would for certain take advantage of that.

Nah.. look how many times Marquez has been floored.. if Naz decked ya you stayed decked. Fact.

[ICB]

Regardless of who ducked who JMM would of smacked Naseem Hamed all over the ring, he is a better counter puncher than MAB. And everytime Naseem Hamed would leap in with his wild punches, JMM would of hurt him badly.

I could possible see JMM knocking down Naseem Hamed atleast 2 times en route to a decision win, just because Naseem Hamed's balance was all over the place, and a counter like JMM would for certain take advantage of that.

Nah.. look how many times Marquez has been floored.. if Naz decked ya you stayed decked. Fact.

How many times has JMM been floored ? he's only been floored against world class fighters like the best P4P fighter in the world. And against MAB which was desperation shot, and against Freddie Norwood. He may of been knocked down more in his early fights. But i haven't seen them.

Kevin Kelley had a pretty weak chin yet he was able to slug it out with Naseem Hamed, and deck Naseem Hamed 3 times. Juan Manuel Marquez may not have a granite chin like Marvin Hagler, but his recovery powers are excellent.

Naseem Hamed may knock down JMM but he wouldn't keep him there, and JMM would make Naseem Hamed look stupid in the ring, with his counter punching style. Naseem Hamed would look like a drunken ballerina.

[Fenster]

Regardless of who ducked who JMM would of smacked Naseem Hamed all over the ring, he is a better counter puncher than MAB. And everytime Naseem Hamed would leap in with his wild punches, JMM would of hurt him badly.

I could possible see JMM knocking down Naseem Hamed atleast 2 times en route to a decision win, just because Naseem Hamed's balance was all over the place, and a counter like JMM would for certain take advantage of that.

Nah.. look how many times Marquez has been floored.. if Naz decked ya you stayed decked. Fact.

How many times has JMM been floored ? he's only been floored against world class fighters like the best P4P fighter in the world. And against MAB which was desperation shot, and against Freddie Norwood. He may of been knocked down more in his early fights. But i haven't seen them.

Kevin Kelley had a pretty weak chin yet he was able to slug it out with Naseem Hamed, and deck Naseem Hamed 3 times. Juan Manuel Marquez may not have a granite chin like Marvin Hagler, but his recovery powers are excellent.

Naseem Hamed may knock down JMM but he wouldn't keep him there, and JMM would make Naseem Hamed look stupid in the ring, with his counter punching style. Naseem Hamed would look like a drunken ballerina.

So that's six definite knockdowns. Proves my point. No-one survived Naz once he hurt you. Fact.

Nearly every knockdown Hamed suffered was down to his balance. You know that bad balance you were talking about.

[THE THIRD MAN]

Hamed got his superfight with Barrera, the only A list fighter he ever fought and was soundly beaten, Morrales would have done the same. Who ducked Who? nobody knows, Marquez at this time would have been a better option, i think he has got better in recent years and in 2000/2001 i give Hamed a chance of winning that one. My beef with Hamed is he simply did not fight the best out there at the time and when he did he gets beaten, then sulks his way into retirement before he is 30 never really giving himself a chance at redemption over Barrera or testing himself against Morrales. Hamed was a great showman and entertainer, he had ability and was certainly different but he was never the number 1 featherweight out there at the time.

[Fenster]

Hamed got his superfight with Barrera, the only A list fighter he ever fought and was soundly beaten, Morrales would have done the same. Who ducked Who? nobody knows, Marquez at this time would have been a better option, i think he has got better in recent years and in 2000/2001 i give Hamed a chance of winning that one. My beef with Hamed is he simply did not fight the best out there at the time and when he did he gets beaten, then sulks his way into retirement before he is 30 never really giving himself a chance at redemption over Barrera or testing himself against Morrales. Hamed was a great showman and entertainer, he had ability and was certainly different but he was never the number 1 featherweight out there at the time.

Who was no.1 then?

After winning the WBO title, Hamed beat Johnson for the IBF, the WBA champion Vazquez (stripped for facing Hamed) and the WBC champ Soto.

Cleaning up a division doesn't make you top man?

[rene69]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

Marquez was offered the fight Augie Sanchez took on the 19-08-2000

Marquez then fought Daniel Jimenez eight days later on the 27-08-2000

You sure you remember right?

Sorry, didn't go back to read THE BOXING ALMANAC. Bottom line is that Hamed ducked Marquez plain and simple. And the only reason he(Hamed) fought Barrera who was a weight division lower...was because Barrera looked to be on the down side after the Morales fight and looked beatable. It's amazing how Hamed was psychologically
destroyed and ruined after just one fight. Marquez would have probably stopped him if they had fought.

[Fenster]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

Marquez was offered the fight Augie Sanchez took on the 19-08-2000

Marquez then fought Daniel Jimenez eight days later on the 27-08-2000

You sure you remember right?

Sorry, didn't go back to read THE BOXING ALMANAC. Bottom line is that Hamed ducked Marquez plain and simple. And the only reason he(Hamed) fought Barrera who was a weight division lower...was because Barrera looked to be on the down side after the Morales fight and looked beatable. It's amazing how Hamed was psychologically
destroyed and ruined after just one fight. Marquez would have probably stopped him if they had fought.

Right. And the OTHER bottom line is that Marquez TURNED DOWN the chance to fight Naz in 2000.

Marquez admits it. Beristain admits it.

So what we have is - Naz ducked a fighter that REFUSED to fight him

[napoleon336]

Marquez was Hamed's Mando. Hamed chased after the fighter he thought would have been the easier opponent in Barrera. Barrera showed him otherwise though.

[CutMeMick]

If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

If that is so, does it mean Pac is ducking JMM now? JMM wants the rematch and Pac ain't giving it to him.
Remember when Pac first said "No" to ODLH? Does it mean Pac was ducking ODLH? Nope, he just wanted a bigger buck. See what I mean?
Asking for a bigger buck and ducking someone are very different.

Good point.

[CutMeMick]

JMM was the #1 challenger for the WBO for sometime.
Naz never gave him a shot and clearly ducked him.

Once and only after JMM had lost to Norwood did Naz offer to fight JMM.
JMM turned down the offer.


It's that simple.