Hamed/Marquez

[Andre]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

Thought the same thing ,"Ahh A light Mexican warrior with self control .timing and skills."

[ICB]

Regardless of who ducked who JMM would of smacked Naseem Hamed all over the ring, he is a better counter puncher than MAB. And everytime Naseem Hamed would leap in with his wild punches, JMM would of hurt him badly.

I could possible see JMM knocking down Naseem Hamed atleast 2 times en route to a decision win, just because Naseem Hamed's balance was all over the place, and a counter like JMM would for certain take advantage of that.

[Fenster]

Regardless of who ducked who JMM would of smacked Naseem Hamed all over the ring, he is a better counter puncher than MAB. And everytime Naseem Hamed would leap in with his wild punches, JMM would of hurt him badly.

I could possible see JMM knocking down Naseem Hamed atleast 2 times en route to a decision win, just because Naseem Hamed's balance was all over the place, and a counter like JMM would for certain take advantage of that.

Nah.. look how many times Marquez has been floored.. if Naz decked ya you stayed decked. Fact.

[fan johnny]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

So you don't get me wrong let me say that I like Marquez and think he's a great fighter and I absolutly hated Hamed, I wanted badly to see someone know the living shit out of him. That was just his appeal. Just like Mayweather Jr. They are fighters you love to hate. Pure attention whores.

Luck has nothing to do with with Marquez's career except for his current p4p rating. You reap what you sew. There's no need to make excuses for the guy. His own words are self incriminating. Marquez was doing fights 4 times a years and was always in shape. He wasn't a weight yo-yo like Hatton. He was "Afraid" to fight Naz plain and simple. He lost to Norwood a year eariler than the Hamed offer and that's main reason he had difficulty getting "Title fights". He could have fought many fighters he just has a big head and wanted to make bigger money rather that prove he is a great champion.

Just look at Pacquiao, who is Marquez's real claim to fame here, he took on Ledwaba with two weeks notice. Had Marquez done that (actually it was more than two weeks notice for Marquez) with Naz we might see Marquez and the p4p leader. But now we'll never know because Marquez is headed down hill.

[C-Lo]

Regardless of who ducked who JMM would of smacked Naseem Hamed all over the ring, he is a better counter puncher than MAB. And everytime Naseem Hamed would leap in with his wild punches, JMM would of hurt him badly.

I could possible see JMM knocking down Naseem Hamed atleast 2 times en route to a decision win, just because Naseem Hamed's balance was all over the place, and a counter like JMM would for certain take advantage of that.

Nah.. look how many times Marquez has been floored.. if Naz decked ya you stayed decked. Fact.

I feel the same way as ICE too. I feel Barrera just boxed perfectly and didn't go all out to try to take Hamed out of there. I think Marquez would've counter Hamed and if he smelled blood, he would've tried to knock Hamed out. To be honest, I wasn't really following Marquez that early in his career so I don't know if his skills were anywhere near what they are today. But if they were, no doubt in my mind Marquez would make Hamed look just as bad as Barrera did.

Hamed did have shocking power but Marquez also has great recovering ability. Plus, Marquez is too smart to get hit with those wildly swung Hamed punches. The thing is, we'll never know so all we can do is hypothetically speak about it.

[ICB]

Regardless of who ducked who JMM would of smacked Naseem Hamed all over the ring, he is a better counter puncher than MAB. And everytime Naseem Hamed would leap in with his wild punches, JMM would of hurt him badly.

I could possible see JMM knocking down Naseem Hamed atleast 2 times en route to a decision win, just because Naseem Hamed's balance was all over the place, and a counter like JMM would for certain take advantage of that.

Nah.. look how many times Marquez has been floored.. if Naz decked ya you stayed decked. Fact.

How many times has JMM been floored ? he's only been floored against world class fighters like the best P4P fighter in the world. And against MAB which was desperation shot, and against Freddie Norwood. He may of been knocked down more in his early fights. But i haven't seen them.

Kevin Kelley had a pretty weak chin yet he was able to slug it out with Naseem Hamed, and deck Naseem Hamed 3 times. Juan Manuel Marquez may not have a granite chin like Marvin Hagler, but his recovery powers are excellent.

Naseem Hamed may knock down JMM but he wouldn't keep him there, and JMM would make Naseem Hamed look stupid in the ring, with his counter punching style. Naseem Hamed would look like a drunken ballerina.

[Fenster]

Regardless of who ducked who JMM would of smacked Naseem Hamed all over the ring, he is a better counter puncher than MAB. And everytime Naseem Hamed would leap in with his wild punches, JMM would of hurt him badly.

I could possible see JMM knocking down Naseem Hamed atleast 2 times en route to a decision win, just because Naseem Hamed's balance was all over the place, and a counter like JMM would for certain take advantage of that.

Nah.. look how many times Marquez has been floored.. if Naz decked ya you stayed decked. Fact.

I feel the same way as ICE too. I feel Barrera just boxed perfectly and didn't go all out to try to take Hamed out of there. I think Marquez would've counter Hamed and if he smelled blood, he would've tried to knock Hamed out. To be honest, I wasn't really following Marquez that early in his career so I don't know if his skills were anywhere near what they are today. But if they were, no doubt in my mind Marquez would make Hamed look just as bad as Barrera did.

Hamed did have shocking power but Marquez also has great recovering ability. Plus, Marquez is too smart to get hit with those wildly swung Hamed punches. The thing is, we'll never know so all we can do is hypothetically speak about it.

Exactly. That's why i can claim Naz would have sparked him.. it's just a bit of fun

Marquez was seen as a boring fighter back then. I remember that was the spiel

[Fenster]

Regardless of who ducked who JMM would of smacked Naseem Hamed all over the ring, he is a better counter puncher than MAB. And everytime Naseem Hamed would leap in with his wild punches, JMM would of hurt him badly.

I could possible see JMM knocking down Naseem Hamed atleast 2 times en route to a decision win, just because Naseem Hamed's balance was all over the place, and a counter like JMM would for certain take advantage of that.

Nah.. look how many times Marquez has been floored.. if Naz decked ya you stayed decked. Fact.

How many times has JMM been floored ? he's only been floored against world class fighters like the best P4P fighter in the world. And against MAB which was desperation shot, and against Freddie Norwood. He may of been knocked down more in his early fights. But i haven't seen them.

Kevin Kelley had a pretty weak chin yet he was able to slug it out with Naseem Hamed, and deck Naseem Hamed 3 times. Juan Manuel Marquez may not have a granite chin like Marvin Hagler, but his recovery powers are excellent.

Naseem Hamed may knock down JMM but he wouldn't keep him there, and JMM would make Naseem Hamed look stupid in the ring, with his counter punching style. Naseem Hamed would look like a drunken ballerina.

So that's six definite knockdowns. Proves my point. No-one survived Naz once he hurt you. Fact.

Nearly every knockdown Hamed suffered was down to his balance. You know that bad balance you were talking about.

[Violent Demise]

Nah.. look how many times Marquez has been floored.. if Naz decked ya you stayed decked. Fact.

How many times has JMM been floored ? he's only been floored against world class fighters like the best P4P fighter in the world. And against MAB which was desperation shot, and against Freddie Norwood. He may of been knocked down more in his early fights. But i haven't seen them.

Kevin Kelley had a pretty weak chin yet he was able to slug it out with Naseem Hamed, and deck Naseem Hamed 3 times. Juan Manuel Marquez may not have a granite chin like Marvin Hagler, but his recovery powers are excellent.

Naseem Hamed may knock down JMM but he wouldn't keep him there, and JMM would make Naseem Hamed look stupid in the ring, with his counter punching style. Naseem Hamed would look like a drunken ballerina.

So that's six definite knockdowns. Proves my point. No-one survived Naz once he hurt you. Fact.

Nearly every knockdown Hamed suffered was down to his balance. You know that bad balance you were talking about.

Come on now. That's a complete distortion of the truth. He stunned Cesar Soto early. Soto went 12 with him. He had Paul Ingle down and hurt in the 1st. Ingle made it all the way to the 11th. And he had Kevin Kelly hurt in the 2nd. Kelly came back and floored him one more time. And those are straight facts.

[THE THIRD MAN]

Hamed got his superfight with Barrera, the only A list fighter he ever fought and was soundly beaten, Morrales would have done the same. Who ducked Who? nobody knows, Marquez at this time would have been a better option, i think he has got better in recent years and in 2000/2001 i give Hamed a chance of winning that one. My beef with Hamed is he simply did not fight the best out there at the time and when he did he gets beaten, then sulks his way into retirement before he is 30 never really giving himself a chance at redemption over Barrera or testing himself against Morrales. Hamed was a great showman and entertainer, he had ability and was certainly different but he was never the number 1 featherweight out there at the time.

[ICB]

How many times has JMM been floored ? he's only been floored against world class fighters like the best P4P fighter in the world. And against MAB which was desperation shot, and against Freddie Norwood. He may of been knocked down more in his early fights. But i haven't seen them.

Kevin Kelley had a pretty weak chin yet he was able to slug it out with Naseem Hamed, and deck Naseem Hamed 3 times. Juan Manuel Marquez may not have a granite chin like Marvin Hagler, but his recovery powers are excellent.

Naseem Hamed may knock down JMM but he wouldn't keep him there, and JMM would make Naseem Hamed look stupid in the ring, with his counter punching style. Naseem Hamed would look like a drunken ballerina.

So that's six definite knockdowns. Proves my point. No-one survived Naz once he hurt you. Fact.

Nearly every knockdown Hamed suffered was down to his balance. You know that bad balance you were talking about.

Come on now. That's a complete distortion of the truth. He stunned Cesar Soto early. Soto went 12 with him. He had Paul Ingle down and hurt in the 1st. Ingle made it all the way to the 11th. And he had Kevin Kelly hurt in the 2nd. Kelly came back and floored him one more time. And those are straight facts.

VD i remember watching a Naseem Hamed fight where he tackled a fighter to the ground and used his knees or something ? ? i watched it when i was very young and i can't remember the fighters name, do you remember it ?

I also remember Manuel Medina being knocked down a few times against Naseem Hamed, yet he survived until the 11th round. And gave Naseem Hamed a very good argument.

[Violent Demise]

So that's six definite knockdowns. Proves my point. No-one survived Naz once he hurt you. Fact.

Nearly every knockdown Hamed suffered was down to his balance. You know that bad balance you were talking about.

Come on now. That's a complete distortion of the truth. He stunned Cesar Soto early. Soto went 12 with him. He had Paul Ingle down and hurt in the 1st. Ingle made it all the way to the 11th. And he had Kevin Kelly hurt in the 2nd. Kelly came back and floored him one more time. And those are straight facts.

VD i remember watching a Naseem Hamed fight where he tackled a fighter to the ground and used his knees or something ? ? i watched it when i was very young and i can't remember the fighters name, do you remember it ?

I also remember Manuel Medina being knocked down a few times against Naseem Hamed, yet he survived until the 11th round. And gave Naseem Hamed a very good argument.

I'm sure it was the Soto fight. It was a dirty fight. Hamed actually body slammed Soto in that fight.

[Fenster]

Hamed got his superfight with Barrera, the only A list fighter he ever fought and was soundly beaten, Morrales would have done the same. Who ducked Who? nobody knows, Marquez at this time would have been a better option, i think he has got better in recent years and in 2000/2001 i give Hamed a chance of winning that one. My beef with Hamed is he simply did not fight the best out there at the time and when he did he gets beaten, then sulks his way into retirement before he is 30 never really giving himself a chance at redemption over Barrera or testing himself against Morrales. Hamed was a great showman and entertainer, he had ability and was certainly different but he was never the number 1 featherweight out there at the time.

Who was no.1 then?

After winning the WBO title, Hamed beat Johnson for the IBF, the WBA champion Vazquez (stripped for facing Hamed) and the WBC champ Soto.

Cleaning up a division doesn't make you top man?

[Fenster]

So that's six definite knockdowns. Proves my point. No-one survived Naz once he hurt you. Fact.

Nearly every knockdown Hamed suffered was down to his balance. You know that bad balance you were talking about.

Come on now. That's a complete distortion of the truth. He stunned Cesar Soto early. Soto went 12 with him. He had Paul Ingle down and hurt in the 1st. Ingle made it all the way to the 11th. And he had Kevin Kelly hurt in the 2nd. Kelly came back and floored him one more time. And those are straight facts.

VD i remember watching a Naseem Hamed fight where he tackled a fighter to the ground and used his knees or something ? ? i watched it when i was very young and i can't remember the fighters name, do you remember it ?

I also remember Manuel Medina being knocked down a few times against Naseem Hamed, yet he survived until the 11th round. And gave Naseem Hamed a very good argument.

That's because Naz had the flu. Fact.

[ICB]

Come on now. That's a complete distortion of the truth. He stunned Cesar Soto early. Soto went 12 with him. He had Paul Ingle down and hurt in the 1st. Ingle made it all the way to the 11th. And he had Kevin Kelly hurt in the 2nd. Kelly came back and floored him one more time. And those are straight facts.

VD i remember watching a Naseem Hamed fight where he tackled a fighter to the ground and used his knees or something ? ? i watched it when i was very young and i can't remember the fighters name, do you remember it ?

I also remember Manuel Medina being knocked down a few times against Naseem Hamed, yet he survived until the 11th round. And gave Naseem Hamed a very good argument.

That's because Naz had the flu. Fact.

What about the other examples VD gave you ? and thanks VD it was the Cesar Soto fight i remember now, its just been years since i've seen it.