Even if it only till the outcome of Pac/Hatton JMM is PFP#1

[Kev]

Silly sod. In boxing, "facts" are often bullshit.

Things that supposedly happened looking at the paper results, did not actually happen. You read too much into official verdicts rather that the way things really were. It's like reading history off of a census registrar.

JT is perfectly right to argue the way he does IMO.

Facts may be bullshit in your opinon Miles but they are still the official decision!

Ignoring the fact that in this instance the Pacquaio Marquez fight was extremely close and in no way shape or form a robbery or wrong decision, just a fight that could have gone either way, please can you give any evidence to substaniate your frankly ridiculous idea?

Is Nikolay Valuev the current WBA heavyweight world champ? Yes he is. Did most people think Evander Holyfield beat him? Yes they did. Does this mean Evander is the WBA champ? No he isn't.

The official result IS what counts.

You may disagree with it, you may even think its a robbery, but a serious rating system like that put in place by the Ring Magazine MUST adhere to the official results, else it has no credibility at all. It's merely subjective opinion.

And the Pacquaio Marquez fight was a fight that could have gone either way, in the event the man from the Phillipines won so the Ring have NO CHOICE but to make him p4p number 1 in the world.

Your opinon has no merit whatsoever.

Nothing you have said convinces me otherwise. Except that you are a silly bugger who likes stats. And in the boxing world stats can be manipulated. Marquez still has claim as the best fighter in the world. Pac really isn't though, IMO.

So the Ring should just post their opinions right?

So after the Hopkins Calzaghe you would have thought it ok had they decided that Hopkins should have won the fight and so made him number 2 in the world whilst Calzaghe really lost they dumped him out of the top 10?

That would be fine right because it's just opinion that counts.

What if the Ring editor was one of the minority who felt Oscar beat Floyd Mayweather so the Ring Rankings reflected that with Oscar as p4p number 1 and Floyd dropped to fourth?

Or should the Ring reverse only the decisions that you also disagreed with?

[Gandalf]

Facts may be bullshit in your opinon Miles but they are still the official decision!

Ignoring the fact that in this instance the Pacquaio Marquez fight was extremely close and in no way shape or form a robbery or wrong decision, just a fight that could have gone either way, please can you give any evidence to substaniate your frankly ridiculous idea?

Is Nikolay Valuev the current WBA heavyweight world champ? Yes he is. Did most people think Evander Holyfield beat him? Yes they did. Does this mean Evander is the WBA champ? No he isn't.

The official result IS what counts.

You may disagree with it, you may even think its a robbery, but a serious rating system like that put in place by the Ring Magazine MUST adhere to the official results, else it has no credibility at all. It's merely subjective opinion.

And the Pacquaio Marquez fight was a fight that could have gone either way, in the event the man from the Phillipines won so the Ring have NO CHOICE but to make him p4p number 1 in the world.

Your opinon has no merit whatsoever.

Nothing you have said convinces me otherwise. Except that you are a silly bugger who likes stats. And in the boxing world stats can be manipulated. Marquez still has claim as the best fighter in the world. Pac really isn't though, IMO.

So the Ring should just post their opinions right?

So after the Hopkins Calzaghe you would have thought it ok had they decided that Hopkins should have won the fight and so made him number 2 in the world whilst Calzaghe really lost they dumped him out of the top 10?

That would be fine right because it's just opinion that counts.

Totally irrelevant. We are talking Pac/ Marquez here. But you choose to interpret the data how you choose.

[Kev]

Nothing you have said convinces me otherwise. Except that you are a silly bugger who likes stats. And in the boxing world stats can be manipulated. Marquez still has claim as the best fighter in the world. Pac really isn't though, IMO.

So the Ring should just post their opinions right?

So after the Hopkins Calzaghe you would have thought it ok had they decided that Hopkins should have won the fight and so made him number 2 in the world whilst Calzaghe really lost they dumped him out of the top 10?

That would be fine right because it's just opinion that counts.

Totally irrelevant. We are talking Pac/ Marquez here. But you choose to interpret the data how you choose.

How is that irelevent? You are making an argument that the Ring Magazine should completely change their precedent and from henceforth decide to rate opponents purely on their subjective opinion on who won a fight regardless of official results. So what happens when they decide that a result was wrong in a fight where you didn't think it was?

If the editor of the Ring Rankings decided that actually Oscar beat Floyd Mayweather and so made him number 1 what would be your take on that?

To say its irrelevent is to completely miss the point. Either the Ring rankings should be objective and based around official fight results or else they should be free to make up the list any way they feel with no regard for objective ranking.

You are arguing for nothing more than your personal opinion, but when trying to create a legitimate, credible p4p ranking system like the Ring Magazine has for many years then personal opinion cannot be the driving force.

If however you just want your own p4p list, like Setanta or Moono then go for it, put whoever you want as number 1, Pacquaio, Marquez or Mike Arnoutis, it's entirely up to you.

[Gandalf]

So the Ring should just post their opinions right?

So after the Hopkins Calzaghe you would have thought it ok had they decided that Hopkins should have won the fight and so made him number 2 in the world whilst Calzaghe really lost they dumped him out of the top 10?

That would be fine right because it's just opinion that counts.

Totally irrelevant. We are talking Pac/ Marquez here. But you choose to interpret the data how you choose.

How is that irelevent? You are making an argument that the Ring Magazine should completely change their precedent and from henceforth decide to rate opponents purely on their subjective opinion on who won a fight regardless of official results. So what happens when they decide that a result was wrong in a fight where you didn't think it was?

If the editor of the Ring Rankings decided that actually Oscar beat Floyd Mayweather and so made him number 1 what would be your take on that?

To say its irrelevent is to completely miss the point. Either the Ring rankings should be objective and based around official fight results or else they should be free to make up the list any way they feel with no regard for objective ranking.

You are arguing for nothing more than your personal opinion, but when trying to create a legitimate, credible p4p ranking system like the Ring Magazine has for many years then personal opinion cannot be the driving force.

If however you just want your own p4p list, like Setanta or Moono then go for it, put whoever you want as number 1, Pacquaio, Marquez or Mike Arnoutis, it's entirely up to you.

All I'm saying is that all rankings are open for interpretation. There is no accurate ranking, you should be open to that. A magazine interpretation is just one of many. Individual opinions mean just as much sometimes.

[Kev]

Totally irrelevant. We are talking Pac/ Marquez here. But you choose to interpret the data how you choose.

How is that irelevent? You are making an argument that the Ring Magazine should completely change their precedent and from henceforth decide to rate opponents purely on their subjective opinion on who won a fight regardless of official results. So what happens when they decide that a result was wrong in a fight where you didn't think it was?

If the editor of the Ring Rankings decided that actually Oscar beat Floyd Mayweather and so made him number 1 what would be your take on that?

To say its irrelevent is to completely miss the point. Either the Ring rankings should be objective and based around official fight results or else they should be free to make up the list any way they feel with no regard for objective ranking.

You are arguing for nothing more than your personal opinion, but when trying to create a legitimate, credible p4p ranking system like the Ring Magazine has for many years then personal opinion cannot be the driving force.

If however you just want your own p4p list, like Setanta or Moono then go for it, put whoever you want as number 1, Pacquaio, Marquez or Mike Arnoutis, it's entirely up to you.

All I'm saying is that all rankings are open for interpretation. There is no accurate ranking, you should be open to that. A magazine interpretation is just one of many. Individual opinions mean just as much sometimes.

The Ring rankings arn't just a magazine though as they have immense prestige in the world of boxing even taking precedent over the alphabet belts.

Especially in the last few years we've seen many fights announced as being for the Ring Championship, or the fighter being regarded by the Ring Magazine as p4p one of the best in the world.

It DOES has authority and significance and in that sense is an official ranking system, unlike for example the Boxing Talk rankings list or BBC's p4p lists which are generally shit.

Setanta for example have David Haye in their top 10, and Chris John at 8 presumably becuase they had the rights to screen his fight with Rocky Juarez.

The Ring rankings though are respected and carry weigh within the boxing world and hence cannot be based on mere personal opinion.

If you are talking about any other ranking body I couldn't care less who they have in their top 10 but the Ring magazine's rankings are supposed to restore credibility and objectivity to the question of 'who are boxing's best?'.

[JazMerkin]

So the Ring should just post their opinions right?

So after the Hopkins Calzaghe you would have thought it ok had they decided that Hopkins should have won the fight and so made him number 2 in the world whilst Calzaghe really lost they dumped him out of the top 10?

That would be fine right because it's just opinion that counts.

Totally irrelevant. We are talking Pac/ Marquez here. But you choose to interpret the data how you choose.

How is that irelevent? You are making an argument that the Ring Magazine should completely change their precedent and from henceforth decide to rate opponents purely on their subjective opinion on who won a fight regardless of official results. So what happens when they decide that a result was wrong in a fight where you didn't think it was?

If the editor of the Ring Rankings decided that actually Oscar beat Floyd Mayweather and so made him number 1 what would be your take on that?

To say its irrelevent is to completely miss the point. Either the Ring rankings should be objective and based around official fight results or else they should be free to make up the list any way they feel with no regard for objective ranking.

You are arguing for nothing more than your personal opinion, but when trying to create a legitimate, credible p4p ranking system like the Ring Magazine has for many years then personal opinion cannot be the driving force.

If however you just want your own p4p list, like Setanta or Moono then go for it, put whoever you want as number 1, Pacquaio, Marquez or Mike Arnoutis, it's entirely up to you.

Mighty Mike without a doubt, no P4P list can be taken seriously without him at its pinnacle.

I do agree with Bilbo though, whilst I do think that Marquez is #1, the fact remains that The Ring should only do these rankings on actual fight results, although it does make exceptions for bizarre decisions that are basically robberies (see Humberto Soto & Librado Andrade's ratings actually going up after their fights with Lorenzo & Bute). However, even though I thought JMM won, there is no way that fight was a robbery, it was much too close for that. I do believe the rankings are done by committee anyway so that should make sure that the system is fair. Although anyone who somehow thought ODLH actually won against PBF, clearly doesn't actually know shit about boxing. If someone like that was in charge of The Ring then I think its legitimacy would be damaged. I do think JMM is #1, but for me I cant see how someone could complain about Pacquiao being #1.

[cnote111]

Man i love this forum...

I am a die-hard pacfan (which pains me to admit that on this forum)

I read posts constantly, i just don't hit the reply button enough..

On Topic:

I have to go with Bilbo on this one, and not because i am a Pac fan. If the shoe was on the other foot and Marquez squeeked out that split decision during their last encounter and was ranked P4P #1. No matter how much i thought Pac won the fight i would have no basis saying Pacman deserves to be #1. Regardless of who we feel won a fight. The Rankings have to have some type of boundries. The case of Marg/Cotto/Mosely doesn't apply here. Its all speculation when it comes to Pac/JMM and the opponents they have faced. Neither party has faced the same opposition besides MAB. And some have MAB beating JMM. That is exactly why you can't use speculation on P4P when the two fighters you are comparing HAVE fought one another and one of those fighters has the "W" on his record. Whether you agree with it or not.

It all boils down to JMM "technically" lost to Pac. Putting JMM at #2 - Case Closed

[Fenster]

Fuck the Ring.

We used to have our own Saddo P4P rankings. Wacko updated it regularly - unfortunately the rankings went with Wacko.

Someone restart the Saddo rankings. Lets see who the REAL fans think are on top P4P

[killersheep]

Fuck the Ring.

We used to have our own Saddo P4P rankings. Wacko updated it regularly - unfortunately the rankings went with Wacko.

Someone restart the Saddo rankings. Lets see who the REAL fans think are on top P4P

Wow Fens nice of you to volunteer.

[Fenster]

Fuck the Ring.

We used to have our own Saddo P4P rankings. Wacko updated it regularly - unfortunately the rankings went with Wacko.

Someone restart the Saddo rankings. Lets see who the REAL fans think are on top P4P

Wow Fens nice of you to volunteer.

Exactly cnote111 - Mighty Mike P4P#1

[cnote111]

Fuck the Ring.

We used to have our own Saddo P4P rankings. Wacko updated it regularly - unfortunately the rankings went with Wacko.

Someone restart the Saddo rankings. Lets see who the REAL fans think are on top P4P

Yea, cuz that won't be biased at all...

Mighty Mike P4P#1