JMM v. Mayweather Talks underway

[Taeth]

Lets clarify something...

Jmm/Pac #1 was a draw

Jmm/Pac#2 Pac scrapes by for a win

Pac beat him once not twice

Also taeth your so full of crap sometimes, you absolutely jump on any athletically gifted fighters lap and denigrate any fighter thats not..

Classic example, you say Pac is better than JMM.. HMMM weird that in 2 fight with Pac, marquez won more rounds oficially and can be argued strongly that Jmm could have got the nod or ideally and deservedly another draw.

Stop trying to argue D Diaz absolute shit credentials, he was an extremely weak title holder, no one gives a crap that he beat Zab to get into the olympics.... Geezus Chrise man, Mike Tyson didnt make the olympic team

Delahoya at 147 was an absolute zombie, freeze dried shell of the fighter he once was didnt even hydrate to the 160 that he did when he was 10 years younger.

Jmm has done more and looked even more impressive over elite competition, were as Pac fought a once elite Delahoya that was inactive and shot and a weak title holder... Those my friend are undisputable facts

Was Dela Hoya 10 years younger when he KO'ed Mayorga 10x faster and more impressively than Mosley? Was he 10 years younger when he fought competitive fights with Hopkins and Mayweather?

How has JMM done more at the elite level? You are the one talking crap. JMM doesn't even have half the elite level fights that Pacquiao has had. Pacquiao has foughten four ATG's and has come out of nine confrontation 8-1-1(4ko's). You say Oscar is shot yet fail to recognize that Joel Casamayor has been shot for a few years. Oscar had the best sparring partners imaginable to get ready for Pacman, the best trainers, everything. Don't use inactivity as an excuse. Pacquiao looked better both times against Barrera if you want to compare a common opponent. I am not denigrating JMM, I am stating the obvious that he isn't as good as Pacquiao. That's why he isn't p4p#1, thats why he struggled with a decent but not great Juan Diaz.

Once again Bowe won 2 out of 3 fights against Holyfield, he wasn't the greater fighter, Saddler won 3 out of 4 fights with Pep, he wasn't the greater fighter. Buster Douglas beat Tyson, he wasn't the greater fighter, styles make fights, and Marquez employs the perfect strategy against Pacquiao.

I was just making a point with David Diaz in that he isn't the worst fighter ever, he is a decent fighter. He wasn't hte best that the lightweight division had to offer. As for Oscar De La Hoya, he would have beaten Marquez even on that night, a guy who is easy to hit, who isn't unorthodox, who is that much shorter, and more importantly Oscar's jab and left hook would be lined up. If people watched Oscar against PAcquiao then against Mayweather, you will see that its movement that killed him, he wasn't able to get off punches because Manny wasn't there, he employed brilliant footwork.

Also in this case I think Mayweather, Berto, Roy Jones Jr are all better athletes than Pacquiao, and I like first and the latter more than Pacquiao, but I still recognize that he has accomplished more with his career, because he has more heart, he wants to fight best, and he succeeds when he does.

Once again its bullshit to say PAcquiao has only foughten a once elite De La Hoya, he also faced Barrera twice, Morales 3 times, MArquez twice, not to mention other very highly ranked individuals.

Either you know nothing about boxing or you know nothing east Pacquiao's career if this is the refuse you spew forth.

[Wayne]

umm you mean the fact that since last Saturday Pacquiao's hold at #1 p4p is much in doubt by a lot of fans and sportswriters, seeing how many consider Marquez now the #1 p4p fighter in the world, and how if he does fight Marquez and beat him, he can once again scoop up 2 HUGE PPV fights back to back being against JM Marquez and then against the winner of Pacquiao/Hatton, that enough of an explanation for you? oh wait, if i don't mention Pacquiao as the MAIN reason well it doesn't make sense to you

Well Marquez didn't beat Pac to get to #1, Pac beat Marquez 2x, why does Pac need to beat Marquez to remain at #1? Pac beats Hatton, that's a bigger opponent than Diaz and if he fights Cotto or Mayweather next that's hardly ducking a guy he already beat and Pac makes way more money against both guys.

look at Pacs last two opponents and look at Marquez's last two opponents, i'd say that Pacs are second tier compared to JMM, i like Pacquiao but the nutthuggers are now doing to him what the PBF fan boys would do with Mayweather, anyone notice how when PBF retired and about 90% of his fan boys shut the fuck up, everyone started appreciating Mayweather a hell of a lot more, well it's happening now with Pacquiao, his fans say he's gonna win just cause he's Manny Pacquiao, cause he's the king of all the Filipinos, that's hardly a reason, hell i said it time and time again, Pacquiao will push anyone, and is a hard fight for anyone, he looked great against Oscar and Diaz, but to be honest, i think Andre Berto, who by the way i've made it clear that i don't find him to be anything special, would have beaten Oscar just as bad, i felt Marquez out boxed Pac in the rematch just as he did in the first fight, i had it 7 rnds to 5, being 114-113 for JMM (due to the kd), he would catch Pacquiao with cleaner shots more often and also countered him most the night, i don't diss Pacquiao for taking on Hatton cause it's the biggest risk he's taken since the Marquez rematch, and also he's willing to take on Hatton at 140 which is his best weight, but no one can deny the simple fact that just like the Vazquez/R.Marquez fights, JMM/Pac III should of happened right after the second fight

Everyone has slumps in opposition. You don't like De La Hoya and Diaz (as if Marquez wouldn't have fought De La Hoya?)? Well now Hatton is fighting Pac and if Manny wins maybe he fights Mayweather. Like I said, Manny doesn't need to fight Marquez to stay at #1. I don't have a problem with them not fighting again- he fought him twice already and technically beat him twice (scoring error on a judge's part). So long as there are legit fights out there for Manny the fans would like to see I have 0 problem with him not taking on Marquez a 3rd time. Let's not revise history. Virtually everyone had Manny losing to Oscar and he handed him his hat. It isn't abnormal to take on a tune-up fight when one moves up in weight and Diaz was more than a legit opponent for that. Manny tore both guys to shreds. Wasn't Joel Casamayor faded when Marquez took him apart? Juan Diaz was a good W, but he certainly wasn't as good as we all used to think. Now everyone is going to know how (KNOW, but not necessarily be able to execute) to beat Diaz. If Manny tears it up at 140 and Marquez comes up and does the same then maybe I can see it late next year or early 2011, but to hop all over Manny when he's got legit big paydays coming up is just flat out wrong.

[Hunter]

I think that the Mayweather that retired would stop Marquez at any weight of 140 or above. Floyd was too fast and skilled defensively and I dont think Marquez would have the power at 140 or above to bother Money. If Juan Diaz could lay some leather on Marquez, it would be like taking candy from a baby for the money man.........

[rjj tszyu]

I think that the Mayweather that retired would stop Marquez at any weight of 140 or above. Floyd was too fast and skilled defensively and I dont think Marquez would have the power at 140 or above to bother Money. If Juan Diaz could lay some leather on Marquez, it would be like taking candy from a baby for the money man.........

100% agreed. I like both Diaz and Marquez but Mayweather is a class above both!

[JT Rock]

Lets clarify something...

Jmm/Pac #1 was a draw

Jmm/Pac#2 Pac scrapes by for a win

Pac beat him once not twice

Also taeth your so full of crap sometimes, you absolutely jump on any athletically gifted fighters lap and denigrate any fighter thats not..

Classic example, you say Pac is better than JMM.. HMMM weird that in 2 fight with Pac, marquez won more rounds oficially and can be argued strongly that Jmm could have got the nod or ideally and deservedly another draw.

Stop trying to argue D Diaz absolute shit credentials, he was an extremely weak title holder, no one gives a crap that he beat Zab to get into the olympics.... Geezus Chrise man, Mike Tyson didnt make the olympic team

Delahoya at 147 was an absolute zombie, freeze dried shell of the fighter he once was didnt even hydrate to the 160 that he did when he was 10 years younger.

Jmm has done more and looked even more impressive over elite competition, were as Pac fought a once elite Delahoya that was inactive and shot and a weak title holder... Those my friend are undisputable facts

Was Dela Hoya 10 years younger when he KO'ed Mayorga 10x faster and more impressively than Mosley? Was he 10 years younger when he fought competitive fights with Hopkins and Mayweather?

How has JMM done more at the elite level? You are the one talking crap. JMM doesn't even have half the elite level fights that Pacquiao has had. Pacquiao has foughten four ATG's and has come out of nine confrontation 8-1-1(4ko's). You say Oscar is shot yet fail to recognize that Joel Casamayor has been shot for a few years. Oscar had the best sparring partners imaginable to get ready for Pacman, the best trainers, everything. Don't use inactivity as an excuse. Pacquiao looked better both times against Barrera if you want to compare a common opponent. I am not denigrating JMM, I am stating the obvious that he isn't as good as Pacquiao. That's why he isn't p4p#1, thats why he struggled with a decent but not great Juan Diaz.

Once again Bowe won 2 out of 3 fights against Holyfield, he wasn't the greater fighter, Saddler won 3 out of 4 fights with Pep, he wasn't the greater fighter. Buster Douglas beat Tyson, he wasn't the greater fighter, styles make fights, and Marquez employs the perfect strategy against Pacquiao.

I was just making a point with David Diaz in that he isn't the worst fighter ever, he is a decent fighter. He wasn't hte best that the lightweight division had to offer. As for Oscar De La Hoya, he would have beaten Marquez even on that night, a guy who is easy to hit, who isn't unorthodox, who is that much shorter, and more importantly Oscar's jab and left hook would be lined up. If people watched Oscar against PAcquiao then against Mayweather, you will see that its movement that killed him, he wasn't able to get off punches because Manny wasn't there, he employed brilliant footwork.

Also in this case I think Mayweather, Berto, Roy Jones Jr are all better athletes than Pacquiao, and I like first and the latter more than Pacquiao, but I still recognize that he has accomplished more with his career, because he has more heart, he wants to fight best, and he succeeds when he does.

Once again its bullshit to say PAcquiao has only foughten a once elite De La Hoya, he also faced Barrera twice, Morales 3 times, MArquez twice, not to mention other very highly ranked individuals.

Either you know nothing about boxing or you know nothing east Pacquiao's career if this is the refuse you spew forth.

Many writers including Dan Rafael rank JMM achievments highr than both Barrera and Morales..

Delahoya hasnt fought 147 for almost a decade

You have ignored the fact that JMM has won more rounds against Pac in 2 combined fights.

Casamayor was the recognized Ring Champion at 135 and had been fighting at that weight all along.... Not an inactive fighter, competing at a weight he hadnt fought in 10 years... Were was Oscar ranked at the time of the fight? Certainly not ranked as high as Casa.

You are the one with questionable knowledge

[Taeth]

Oscar made 150, and looked fine against Forbes, stop using 3 pounds as an excuse. People thought the Forbes fight even indicated he could do well against Mayweather.

Even with his current victories I don't see how Marquez would possibly have a better resume than Barrera or Morales. They both fought a lot more top end guys then Marquez who was always in their shadow.

I am not saying Marquez isn't one of the mexican greats, I think he will surpass Barrera and Morales before his career is over, which is an amazing feat considering he never got the recognition he deserved. I love watching him fight, but that doesn't change the fact Pacquiao is a little better than him, I don't know why that bothers you guys so much. Pacquiao is more dominant, he's more exciting, and he's beaten Marquez among others.

Marquez one more rounds in the first fight against Pacquiao when Manny was a totally different fighter, in the second fight besides Gerry Roth's ridiculous scoring he didn't win more rounds.

All in all it doesn't change the fact Marquez wouldn't have been able to beat Oscar the same way, he wouldn't be the nearly 50/50 split against Mayweather, nor would he favorite like Pacquiao would be against guys like Miguel Cotto. The reason is because Pacquiao is a dynamic fighter, I am not talking about his athleticism, I am talking about his style, nobody else fights like him, which makes it a unique experience facing him.

Once again, I find it funny that you guys can criticize other people for saying how great Pacquiao is, which is plainly the truth, but when Marquez is mentioned you guys think he is the greatest mexican fighter ever, or that he should be p4p #1, when he isn't. He's a great fighter, but he isn't as good as Bernard Hopkins, and he definitely isn't as good as Pacquiao, he is in their league, but on a slightly dimmer celestial plane.

[XaduBoxer]

Delahoya hasnt fought 147 for almost a decade

JMM has won more rounds against Pac in 2 combined fights.

Pacquiao hasn't fought 147 in his entire life...

PAC has knocked down JMM more as against all of JMM's other opponents combined...

.

[XaduBoxer]

link --> Mayweather vs. Marquez: Juan Seriously After Floyd


WBA/WBO lightweight champion Juan Manuel Marquez, and manager/trainer Nacho Berestain have spoken out in the Mexican press about their position on fighting Floyd Mayweather Jr. After Marquez stopped Juan Diaz last Saturday in Texas, he called for a fight with Mayweather, who is technically retired and inactive since December 2007.

Berestain says their pursuit of Mayweather is real and not a ploy to lure Manny Pacquiao into a third fight. They don't deny their desire to fight the Filipino for a third time but they want a fight with Mayweather in September.

One of the main sticking points by Berestain is the weight. He says under no circumstances do they plan to fight Mayweather at the welterweight limit of 147-pounds. Nacho says a twelve-pound advantage is too much for Marquez. They are willing to meet Mayweather at a catch-weight of 143-144-pounds. Most insiders don't expect Mayweather to un-retire for Marquez. Richard Schaefer, CEO for Golden Boy Promotions, who promote Marquez, believes the fight can be made. He already reached out to Mayweather's adviser Al Haymon and their conversations have gone well.

That doesn't mean Floyd will actually return for Marquez.

He wanted a guarantee of $20 million to fight Shane Mosley. Even if he dropped his demand to an area between $10 to 15 million for Marquez, that is still a lot of money to make back and a lot of risk for Golden Boy. Maybe too much risk. Marquez is not a proven ticket seller or pay-per-view star. Mayweather, unless he has De La Hoya/Hatton on the other end, has done an average of 350-400 on pay-per-view. Considering the economic times, it would be very tough to get a million pay-per-view buys.


Yeah, we heard you clearly Nacho, it's not a ploy...
.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Oscar made 150, and looked fine against Forbes, stop using 3 pounds as an excuse. People thought the Forbes fight even indicated he could do well against Mayweather.

Even with his current victories I don't see how Marquez would possibly have a better resume than Barrera or Morales. They both fought a lot more top end guys then Marquez who was always in their shadow.

I am not saying Marquez isn't one of the mexican greats, I think he will surpass Barrera and Morales before his career is over, which is an amazing feat considering he never got the recognition he deserved. I love watching him fight, but that doesn't change the fact Pacquiao is a little better than him, I don't know why that bothers you guys so much. Pacquiao is more dominant, he's more exciting, and he's beaten Marquez among others.

Marquez one more rounds in the first fight against Pacquiao when Manny was a totally different fighter, in the second fight besides Gerry Roth's ridiculous scoring he didn't win more rounds.

All in all it doesn't change the fact Marquez wouldn't have been able to beat Oscar the same way, he wouldn't be the nearly 50/50 split against Mayweather, nor would he favorite like Pacquiao would be against guys like Miguel Cotto. The reason is because Pacquiao is a dynamic fighter, I am not talking about his athleticism, I am talking about his style, nobody else fights like him, which makes it a unique experience facing him.

Once again, I find it funny that you guys can criticize other people for saying how great Pacquiao is, which is plainly the truth, but when Marquez is mentioned you guys think he is the greatest mexican fighter ever, or that he should be p4p #1, when he isn't. He's a great fighter, but he isn't as good as Bernard Hopkins, and he definitely isn't as good as Pacquiao, he is in their league, but on a slightly dimmer celestial plane.

didnt oscar fight forbes after losing to PBF? dont see how that would serve as an indicator for a fight that already happened

[XaduBoxer]

Oscar made 150, and looked fine against Forbes, stop using 3 pounds as an excuse. People thought the Forbes fight even indicated he could do well against Mayweather.

Even with his current victories I don't see how Marquez would possibly have a better resume than Barrera or Morales. They both fought a lot more top end guys then Marquez who was always in their shadow.

I am not saying Marquez isn't one of the mexican greats, I think he will surpass Barrera and Morales before his career is over, which is an amazing feat considering he never got the recognition he deserved. I love watching him fight, but that doesn't change the fact Pacquiao is a little better than him, I don't know why that bothers you guys so much. Pacquiao is more dominant, he's more exciting, and he's beaten Marquez among others.

Marquez one more rounds in the first fight against Pacquiao when Manny was a totally different fighter, in the second fight besides Gerry Roth's ridiculous scoring he didn't win more rounds.

All in all it doesn't change the fact Marquez wouldn't have been able to beat Oscar the same way, he wouldn't be the nearly 50/50 split against Mayweather, nor would he favorite like Pacquiao would be against guys like Miguel Cotto. The reason is because Pacquiao is a dynamic fighter, I am not talking about his athleticism, I am talking about his style, nobody else fights like him, which makes it a unique experience facing him.

Once again, I find it funny that you guys can criticize other people for saying how great Pacquiao is, which is plainly the truth, but when Marquez is mentioned you guys think he is the greatest mexican fighter ever, or that he should be p4p #1, when he isn't. He's a great fighter, but he isn't as good as Bernard Hopkins, and he definitely isn't as good as Pacquiao, he is in their league, but on a slightly dimmer celestial plane.

didnt oscar fight forbes after losing to PBF? dont see how that would serve as an indicator for a fight that already happened

I think Taeth is referring to the planned Mayweather rematch fight... In the Forbes fight, Oscar bragged that he still have the stamina to last 12 rounds...
.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Oscar made 150, and looked fine against Forbes, stop using 3 pounds as an excuse. People thought the Forbes fight even indicated he could do well against Mayweather.

Even with his current victories I don't see how Marquez would possibly have a better resume than Barrera or Morales. They both fought a lot more top end guys then Marquez who was always in their shadow.

I am not saying Marquez isn't one of the mexican greats, I think he will surpass Barrera and Morales before his career is over, which is an amazing feat considering he never got the recognition he deserved. I love watching him fight, but that doesn't change the fact Pacquiao is a little better than him, I don't know why that bothers you guys so much. Pacquiao is more dominant, he's more exciting, and he's beaten Marquez among others.

Marquez one more rounds in the first fight against Pacquiao when Manny was a totally different fighter, in the second fight besides Gerry Roth's ridiculous scoring he didn't win more rounds.

All in all it doesn't change the fact Marquez wouldn't have been able to beat Oscar the same way, he wouldn't be the nearly 50/50 split against Mayweather, nor would he favorite like Pacquiao would be against guys like Miguel Cotto. The reason is because Pacquiao is a dynamic fighter, I am not talking about his athleticism, I am talking about his style, nobody else fights like him, which makes it a unique experience facing him.

Once again, I find it funny that you guys can criticize other people for saying how great Pacquiao is, which is plainly the truth, but when Marquez is mentioned you guys think he is the greatest mexican fighter ever, or that he should be p4p #1, when he isn't. He's a great fighter, but he isn't as good as Bernard Hopkins, and he definitely isn't as good as Pacquiao, he is in their league, but on a slightly dimmer celestial plane.

didnt oscar fight forbes after losing to PBF? dont see how that would serve as an indicator for a fight that already happened

I think Taeth is referring to the planned Mayweather rematch fight... In the Forbes fight, Oscar bragged that he still have the stamina to last 12 rounds...
.

So was the rematch supposed to happen at 147? if so it would have been the fact that it was a rematch that oscar would have faired better not his performance against forbes...IMO

[JazMerkin]

didnt oscar fight forbes after losing to PBF? dont see how that would serve as an indicator for a fight that already happened

I think Taeth is referring to the planned Mayweather rematch fight... In the Forbes fight, Oscar bragged that he still have the stamina to last 12 rounds...
.

So was the rematch supposed to happen at 147? if so it would have been the fact that it was a rematch that oscar would have faired better not his performance against forbes...IMO

Yeah, it was & we all saw what happened when Oscar tried to fight there again

[Kel]

Totally unfair fight IMO but if JMM wants to seek out Floyd at a weight he has never fought at before he is as ambitious as he is crazy.

[BoomBoom]

This is nothing like Pac-Oscar. Oscar was long on the decline in skill and speed and fought at a weight he hadnt been in 12 years. Mayweather just came off one of his biggest wins last year, showed he isnt near washed up and is still able to naturally fght at 147, even 140 if he needed I think he could without the Oscar-like effects. JMM is a great fighter, one of the best on the planet, but this fight woud be a mismatch. Floyd is just too much. If it was the smaller Floyd who fought Castillo years ago, and the Marquez of today...well...Marquez hands Floyd his 1st loss. Its just not the case though. Today, good big man beats good small man.

[Kel]

This is nothing like Pac-Oscar. Oscar was long on the decline in skill and speed and fought at a weight he hadnt been in 12 years. Mayweather just came off one of his biggest wins last year, showed he isnt near washed up and is still able to naturally fght at 147, even 140 if he needed I think he could without the Oscar-like effects. JMM is a great fighter, one of the best on the planet, but this fight woud be a mismatch. Floyd is just too much. If it was the smaller Floyd who fought Castillo years ago, and the Marquez of today...well...Marquez hands Floyd his 1st loss. Its just not the case though. Today, good big man beats good small man.

Oh yeah, agree 100%