Capitalism

[VictorCharlie]

Strange I haven't heard anyone mention the fact he is sending 21,000 more troops to Afghanistan. The President should be very careful there. Its the place where empires go to die.

[VictorCharlie]

I didn't realize how old this thread was. In regards to capitalism, wealth redistribution etc. There is no question that our financial system has run amuck and that our government, democrats and republicans alike, failed to do anything about it. I think our country is seriously lacking in accountability. The blame cannot only be place at the top of the financial food chain. American's have come to a sense of entitlement. They are supposed to own a house, buy a new car every couple of years etc etc. As a Staff Sergeant in the Army I epitomize the middle class. My wife and I bought cheap, efficient and reliable cars; we don't carry revolving credit, saved money for our upcoming home purchase, put money into a savings and retirement account every month and overall take an active role in our finances. We are not the rule amongst my co-workers or friends. American middle and lower economic classes must take some ownership for closing the gap. You can't have a country that offers the possibility of tremendous wealth and success w/o the prospect for absolute failure.

[Andre]

Wise words Van Childs,

I feel where society also falls apart is the lack of care for others less fortunate; Another cause as well as what you mention is that once some people reach what they consider a higher level of existance they look down on others and the gap widens into a them and us syndrome.
Disease in nature or from within ourselves is the only instant leveler.

[killersheep]

I didn't realize how old this thread was. In regards to capitalism, wealth redistribution etc. There is no question that our financial system has run amuck and that our government, democrats and republicans alike, failed to do anything about it. I think our country is seriously lacking in accountability. The blame cannot only be place at the top of the financial food chain. American's have come to a sense of entitlement. They are supposed to own a house, buy a new car every couple of years etc etc. As a Staff Sergeant in the Army I epitomize the middle class. My wife and I bought cheap, efficient and reliable cars; we don't carry revolving credit, saved money for our upcoming home purchase, put money into a savings and retirement account every month and overall take an active role in our finances. We are not the rule amongst my co-workers or friends. American middle and lower economic classes must take some ownership for closing the gap. You can't have a country that offers the possibility of tremendous wealth and success w/o the prospect for absolute failure.

I agree with what you say here. The reality of the current situation however is, if certain institutions do fail we as a nation do not have the infrastructure to stabilize the economy. I completely agree that at a personal level people need to setup a budget and a savings plan. Also individuals need to understand what is a good affordable deal for a loan
and what is not. One of the trickiest things to sustain a capitalist economy of the magnatude we have now, we do have to spend.
I think one of the best things the government could do right now is make available a free excel spreadsheet that people could fill out to determine
what there budget is, not as a mandatory thing of course, just to have and use.

[Andre]

Dont want to sound all doom and gloom but all these empty commercial properties from Whare houses ,factories to offices that have closed down will have more impact on the economy than the empty private housing that people have had to walk away from.

Once the rich are taking hits and they tighten their belts the whole thing gets squezed dry. There will be a new poor being born out this ,that will feel the hits much worse than the street poor that exist already.

[VictorCharlie]

Killer I subscribe to the idea that if your are too big to fail then you are too big to manage. I wouldn't have bailed out a single one.

[killersheep]

Killer I subscribe to the idea that if your are too big to fail then you are too big to manage. I wouldn't have bailed out a single one.

OK lets play out that scenario, you have let the big companies fail, what happens next?

[VictorCharlie]

I'll be honest Killer I don't have the national/international economic understanding that some of yall have. But if the failing of a financial institution(s) is going to suck the US and international economy into a black hole then we have to do something. I just wouldn't have bailed them out. Nationalize them. Gut them. Clean them up and sell them. Hopefully by the time this is done legislation has been passed to regulate the economy better and provide transparency/oversight. Is this the right answer? I don't know. I'm sure Kirk is at this moment writing an explanation of why this is a shit idea. Like I preach on here a lot I am big in accountability. If you run a billion dollar business into bankruptcy you should lose your job and your business fail. I'd like to think in a market economy that if there is a window to grab market share and make profit someone will step up and make it happen.

[killersheep]

I'll be honest Killer I don't have the national/international economic understanding that some of yall have. But if the failing of a financial institution(s) is going to suck the US and international economy into a black hole then we have to do something. I just wouldn't have bailed them out. Nationalize them. Gut them. Clean them up and sell them. Hopefully by the time this is done legislation has been passed to regulate the economy better and provide transparency/oversight. Is this the right answer? I don't know. I'm sure Kirk is at this moment writing an explanation of why this is a shit idea. Like I preach on here a lot I am big in accountability. If you run a billion dollar business into bankruptcy you should lose your job and your business fail. I'd like to think in a market economy that if there is a window to grab market share and make profit someone will step up and make it happen.

I think ultimately you and I would like to end up at the same place as far as the economy goes. The problem right now is the factor of time, we don't have the infrastructure to do without these companies. Plus the other ramifications of a higher unemployment and difficulty in lending don't help. You are definately right on when you speak of individual financial responsibility.

Economics lesson 1.
Two assumptions one must make in economics is that all goods are scarce and all people are greedy.

[AdamGB]

I thought within any type of government that a small amout of people control the majority of the currency, is there one that does not. Communism, Fascism, Monarchy, etc.

I would disagree here, in Communism and Socialism everything is public, so essentially everyone owns everything.

In Facism there are systems of economic planning and price fixing, and nationalized certain industries to benefit the whole.

it's about control not ownership.

[El Kabong]

I agree with Van. The government shouldn't be the one to choose the winners and losers and honestly who have the bail outs helped It sure as fuck wasn't GM whom it is now rumored that they are to undergo a "controlled" bankruptcy...and that means that they are going to punish all non-UAW people in the company.

[Kirkland Laing]

I'll be honest Killer I don't have the national/international economic understanding that some of yall have. But if the failing of a financial institution(s) is going to suck the US and international economy into a black hole then we have to do something. I just wouldn't have bailed them out. Nationalize them. Gut them. Clean them up and sell them. Hopefully by the time this is done legislation has been passed to regulate the economy better and provide transparency/oversight. Is this the right answer? I don't know. I'm sure Kirk is at this moment writing an explanation of why this is a shit idea. Like I preach on here a lot I am big in accountability. If you run a billion dollar business into bankruptcy you should lose your job and your business fail. I'd like to think in a market economy that if there is a window to grab market share and make profit someone will step up and make it happen.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...10-post39.html

[Kirkland Laing]

Obama has taken advantage of a bad economy to try and make the situation worse. He's going to raise taxes, he's already doubled our national debt, and he's not even done with his first year...he has promised to weaken our military, he's promised to close GITMO...where those prisoners go I am not sure, and he has promised to end the war in Iraq and his Secretary of State has "Extended an olive branch" to the Taliban who replied "We're going to hit DC soon".

It was understandable to want to change SOME of the policies of George W. Bush as he was inexperienced when he took office but to follow him with somebody who has even less experience was a bad idea. John McCain had experience, he was more of a moderate conservative, he was a big enough SOB to where he would veto any bill with pork barrell spending.


But there's little we can do now but "Hope for change" and in 4 years we just might get it. I can bet you the GOP will be taking over Congress pretty soon.

Obama hasn't doubled the national debt, that was Bush. Then Bush guaranteed so much bank debt in his last few months in office that he effectively doubled it again. It went from 5 trillion to 20 trillion in debt and debt guarantees under Bush.

He's going to cut taxes for 99% of Americans, only raise them on 1%. Like he told you before he got elected.

He hasn't promised to weaken any military.

He's closing Gitmo which was a total disaster and only did damage.

He's ending a war in Iraq after his fuckwitted predecessor managed to spend three trillion, four thousand American lives, one million Iraqi lives in an invasion which handed control of the world's second-largest oil reserve (Iraq) over to the Iranians who signed a deal with Bush before Obama took over where Bush agreed to get out by 2011.

And Gates offered talks to the Taliban while Bush was still president.

There isn't anyridiculous shit pushed by the rightwing crackheads you listen to that you won't swallow whole. As a result you're consistently clueless and wrong about everything.

[El Kabong]

Kirkland he's going to raise taxes and if he doesn't everyone will just be screwed by inflation.

His speeches in Europe leave a lot to be desired...does ANYBODY not see why the Democrats are tagged with the "Blame America First" label OR the "Spendacrats"....I mean the GOP was spending a bunch and the Dems get in there and just dwarf what the GOP Congress was doing and in less than a year. NEWSFLASH when the Europeans say "You're spending too much" YOU'RE SPENDING WAAAAY TOO MUCH!

And his stance on North Korea (if you can call it that) is really fucking weak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxL8NcNACBY

but of course he did also say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNrXWxBTcJE

So you never really know where he stands unless of course you live in Europe where you get the 100% full truth out of Barry "Blame America, we're arrogant, we're ignorant, and we want to stop being the leaders of the free world"....We fail to recognize the EU's leadership in the World....HORSE SHIT! What the fuck have you guys done lately besides bitch at us

As for Barry and the debt...
PolitiFact | Judd Gregg says Obama's budget doubles the national debt in five years

Doubles it in 5 years and triples it in 10 years "Mostly True"

[killersheep]

I thought within any type of government that a small amout of people control the majority of the currency, is there one that does not. Communism, Fascism, Monarchy, etc.

I would disagree here, in Communism and Socialism everything is public, so essentially everyone owns everything.

In Facism there are systems of economic planning and price fixing, and nationalized certain industries to benefit the whole.

it's about control not ownership.

Ownership is control.