Inarguably the best boxer of Mexican descent

[TitoFan]

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)

[CGM]

I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)

That's all fine, but it was about the quality of his opposition compared to Lopez, not about his total number of victories. You disagreed with Holmcall ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition because of his early taxidriver opponents. I'm not disputing that a lot of his early opponents were questionable. It just doesn't detract from his title reign in any way shape or form. And his title reign looks very good against Lopez. Like mIck says, Just look at his fights from 45 onwards. Now if you are going to argue that Lopez top 15 victims are better than Chavez top 15 victims that's a different story. I made it clear where I stand there.

[TitoFan]

Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)

That's all fine, but it was about the quality of his opposition compared to Lopez, not about his total number of victories. You disagreed with Holmcall ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition because of his early taxidriver opponents. I'm not disputing that a lot of his early opponents were questionable. It just doesn't detract from his title reign in any way shape or form. And his title reign looks very good against Lopez. Like mIck says, Just look at his fights from 45 onwards. Now if you are going to argue that Lopez top 15 victims are better than Chavez top 15 victims that's a different story. I made it clear where I stand there.

When you compare top 15 opposing fighters, JCC does indeed come out on top over Finito. So on that basis alone, I guess a case could be made for Chavez. I did see each fight in their respective peaks however, and always thought Finito was the more dominant, complete fighter. I may be a little biased as well, 'cause I always respected Finito more as a person, as well as his prowess in the ring.

[Pavlik]

6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.

[Mr140]

Well Tito if you not looking just at recored then you score it by skill and how good they were pound for pound i guess right or no. Because if so i guess thats not that far off i mean i think Benitez is the best PR fighter skill wise really but i am sure there some fighters with better records. Really a shame what happen to that guy in the end of his career and life.

[TitoFan]

Well Tito if you not looking just at recored then you score it by skill and how good they were pound for pound i guess right or no. Because if so i guess thats not that far off i mean i think Benitez is the best PR fighter skill wise really but i am sure there some fighters with better records. Really a shame what happen to that guy in the end of his career and life.

Definitely. Wilfredo "El Radar de St. Just" Benitez was a masterful defensive fighter, and a joy to watch. Youngest boxer to win a title when he beat Antonio Cervantes for the world title at age 17. Didn't end up very well, though.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.

no love for Oscar in this thread?

[Taeth]

Oscar is mexican, but he isn't a mexican. He's from the states, arguably he is as good as any of them. IMO he would have given any of them one hell of a fight p4p, fought the best competition of all of them, and won against guys I am not sure some of the other greats would have.

[DaxxKahn]

6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.

no love for Oscar in this thread?

I had love for Oscar of the old....Oscar the warrior...Then he turned into Oscar the promoter and self righteous Oscar.....

Regardless though he is still and ATG no matter what personal opinion is...His record speaks for itself....

Though I do not know if he fits the catagory of the thread...He is of Mexican decent...Not a Mexican

[Howlin Mad Missy]

6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.

no love for Oscar in this thread?

I had love for Oscar of the old....Oscar the warrior...Then he turned into Oscar the promoter and self righteous Oscar.....

Regardless though he is still and ATG no matter what personal opinion is...His record speaks for itself....

Though I do not know if he fits the catagory of the thread...He is of Mexican decent...Not a Mexican

well the thread does say 'best boxer of mexican decent' so I figure he ticks that box.

[THE THIRD MAN]

6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.

no love for Oscar in this thread?

I had love for Oscar of the old....Oscar the warrior...Then he turned into Oscar the promoter and self righteous Oscar.....

Regardless though he is still and ATG no matter what personal opinion is...His record speaks for itself....

Though I do not know if he fits the catagory of the thread...He is of Mexican decent...Not a Mexican

He has severely tarnished his legacy with a string of losses against A list fighters, the last few years have been quite sad and Oscar simply doesn't know whether he is a fighter or a promoter. He took his eye off the ball as they say? Of Mexican descent he is top 10 but not top 5!