I'm not impressed with Juan Diaz

[Taeth]

that's what i was trying to say, you don't have to beat elite to be elite, you pick up enough meaningful wins against good world class opposition and you should be considered an elite fighter, hence the p4p list, and i'm not disputing the fact that Pacquiao should be considered elite cause he should, only thing is that the theory of "to be elite you have to beat (active) elite" is complete bullshit

So Manny beating Marquez, Barrera, Dela Hoya, and Morales isnt' considered beating elites?

beating a shot Morales and De La Hoya no, Barrera yes, and Marquez i felt he won both fights not Manny

The only people that think Marquez won the second fight are delusional, he didn't even win without the knockdown, with it there is no way he won that fight. Need further evidence of who was better watch Marquez-Barrear then Pacquiao-Barrera, in the first fight both guys seem virtually equal, while in the second fihgt consisting of Pacquiao and Barrera, Pacquiao wins handily and doesn't even really step on the gas.

Morales wasn't shot in their first fight and Manny almost beat him there and he wasn't half as good as he is now.

Also was that the same shot Oscar De La Hoya who looked good against Mayweather and Steve Forbes? I am not saying he was what, he once was maybe even when he faced Floyd, but it was Pacquiao's greatness not De La Hoya's decline that was the reason he got his ass handed to him. Marquez wouldn't have been able to do that.

Even if you had Pacquiao losing both fights to Marquez which due to terrible scoring, they would have still had to have been extremely close fights(within a round or two) and the second one even without the knockdown scored would have had to been very close.