And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

[El Kabong]

Anyway, and back to my original point.... Larry Holmes is an ass for calling Ali overrated. And I wish he'd try a comeback himself over Wladimir Klitschko. I'd buy ringside seats and truly enjoy the massacre.

No sense in being angry at the guy for speaking the truth...Ali is more personality than boxer.

Hey I know my opinion of Ali goes over like a fart in a diving helmet but I just think Ali's persona, charisma, and his cultural icon status tend gloss over any flaws he had as a fighter and a person.

No boxer is perfect, no boxer is unbeatable, and no boxer is as good as people think/assume Ali was.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Anyway, and back to my original point.... Larry Holmes is an ass for calling Ali overrated. And I wish he'd try a comeback himself over Wladimir Klitschko. I'd buy ringside seats and truly enjoy the massacre.

No sense in being angry at the guy for speaking the truth...Ali is more personality than boxer.

Hey I know my opinion of Ali goes over like a fart in a diving helmet but I just think Ali's persona, charisma, and his cultural icon status tend gloss over any flaws he had as a fighter and a person.

No boxer is perfect, no boxer is unbeatable, and no boxer is as good as people think/assume Ali was.

nobody says that Ali was unbeatable, he retired with 5 losses, Frazier,Norton,Spinks, Holmes, and Berbick.

but no one can deny the fact that he beat a legendary names and did it without the controversy that there is now in boxing

Archie Moore
Henry Cooper (2X)
Sonny Liston (2X)
Floyd Patterson (2X)
George Chuvalo (2X)
Ernie Terrell
Jerry Quarry (2X)
Jimmy Ellis
Buster Mathis
Bob Foster
Ken Norton (2X)
Joe Frazier (2X)
George Foreman
Earnie Shavers
Leon Spinks

tell me one heavy in the last 30 years who has that amount of top talent on his record

[Mr140]

Well the only heavyweights i can think of that are close are Holyfeild and Lewis when i comes to who they had wins over but that is about it.

[El Kabong]

nobody says that Ali was unbeatable, he retired with 5 losses, Frazier,Norton,Spinks, Holmes, and Berbick.

but no one can deny the fact that he beat a legendary names and did it without the controversy that there is now in boxing

Archie Moore
Henry Cooper (2X)
Sonny Liston (2X)
Floyd Patterson (2X)
George Chuvalo (2X)
Ernie Terrell
Jerry Quarry (2X)
Jimmy Ellis
Buster Mathis
Bob Foster
Ken Norton (2X)
Joe Frazier (2X)
George Foreman
Earnie Shavers
Leon Spinks

tell me one heavy in the last 30 years who has that amount of top talent on his record

So Ali was able to win but he was also blessed with tons of guys to fight. Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano weren't as lucky but 25 successful title defenses and going undefeated speak volumes of greatness.

I really don't rate Ken Norton as all that great of a heavyweight, he was awkward but anytime he was put in with a puncher he got KO'd.

Earnie Shavers wasn't a class heavyweight either, he was just a big puncher, there was nothing else about his game that was amazing.

LEON SPINKS?!?!?! You were arguing FOR Ali being great right

Holyfield and Lewis have very good records and I think they fought top level competition and rarely lost.

[Majesty]

nobody says that Ali was unbeatable, he retired with 5 losses, Frazier,Norton,Spinks, Holmes, and Berbick.

but no one can deny the fact that he beat a legendary names and did it without the controversy that there is now in boxing

Archie Moore
Henry Cooper (2X)
Sonny Liston (2X)
Floyd Patterson (2X)
George Chuvalo (2X)
Ernie Terrell
Jerry Quarry (2X)
Jimmy Ellis
Buster Mathis
Bob Foster
Ken Norton (2X)
Joe Frazier (2X)
George Foreman
Earnie Shavers
Leon Spinks

tell me one heavy in the last 30 years who has that amount of top talent on his record

So Ali was able to win but he was also blessed with tons of guys to fight. Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano weren't as lucky but 25 successful title defenses and going undefeated speak volumes of greatness.

I really don't rate Ken Norton as all that great of a heavyweight, he was awkward but anytime he was put in with a puncher he got KO'd.

Earnie Shavers wasn't a class heavyweight either, he was just a big puncher, there was nothing else about his game that was amazing.

LEON SPINKS?!?!?! You were arguing FOR Ali being great right

Holyfield and Lewis have very good records and I think they fought top level competition and rarely lost.

neither of them had a 3 year hiatus.


Ali had to relinquish the title only 9 defenses into it, it's not out of the question that in those 3 years of his physical prime that he could have built an even greater heavyweight record. And Ali was also great because most of his biggest victories came after his hiatus and prime.

His win against Foreman was one of his greatest.

Lyle you bring up a point that Ali wasn't so flashy anymore and how Foreman was a monster.

That's the point. What makes that win so great was the fact that Ali wasn't the Ali who fought Cleveland Williams and was way past his prime, and he went in there and he beat the young monster who was undisputed champ George Foreman who knocked out Frazier and used a brilliant strategy to beat him.

The point of that victory was that it wasn't a prime Ali and he beat a Prime George Foreman, not only beat him but he knocked him out. It doesn't matter if it was pretty or not, what matters is that he did it out of his prime and no one game him a chance.

[El Kabong]

Oh it was a defining moment of Ali's career but it was a shitty fight full of wild punches and no strategy on one side and leaning on the ropes covering up and pot shotting ont he other side. The WIN was much more impressive than the actual fight.

It is kind of like saying Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s win over Carlos Baldomir was his most impressive win....I mean it was wonderful for him to win the fight but he probably could have done it in a more crowd pleasing manner.

[Master]

Oh it was a defining moment of Ali's career but it was a shitty fight full of wild punches and no strategy on one side and leaning on the ropes covering up and pot shotting ont he other side. The WIN was much more impressive than the actual fight.

It is kind of like saying Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s win over Carlos Baldomir was his most impressive win....I mean it was wonderful for him to win the fight but he probably could have done it in a more crowd pleasing manner.

Comparing Mayweather victory over Baldomir with Ali's over Foremans?

You are right Ali should have beaten Foreman in a more crowd pleasing way. Ali was glad just to have won.

[Majesty]

Oh it was a defining moment of Ali's career but it was a shitty fight full of wild punches and no strategy on one side and leaning on the ropes covering up and pot shotting ont he other side. The WIN was much more impressive than the actual fight.

It is kind of like saying Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s win over Carlos Baldomir was his most impressive win....I mean it was wonderful for him to win the fight but he probably could have done it in a more crowd pleasing manner.

I get what you're saying. But Floyd was in his prime and had full use of his abilities in that fight and didn't make it exciting etc. But Ali didn't have much of a choice, his legs weren't the same and he knew he couldn't keep up the pace so he let George were himself down. If Ali had fought to make that fight exciting he would have been the one who tired out and probably would have lost.