Where will you put Pac in the All-Time Greats?

[CutMeMick]

Like what I've said, if he defeats Hatton convincingly, he's within the top 5 all time great along with Robinson, Ali, Armstrong, etc.

So to make this formal in saddo, please post your unbiased opinion.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

Let's slow down a bit here... Top 5 ALL TIME.
That is a bit too much.
Yes this was a great win and a win that put's him as #1 P4P right now.
But he has unfinished business with JMM and until then I'm sorry but he's not near the top 10 P4P all time.
If I barely have Floyd somewhere around 20 All time Pac still has a ways to go before he touches Top 20.

You wouldn't even have him in the top 20

He's won world titles in 6 divisions, and not just paper trinkets but he's beaten the undisputed champions of many of those divisions.

His resume compares to any boxer who has ever lived. Morales, Marquez, Barrera, De La Hoya and Hatton are all Hall of Fame bound and he knocked all of them out apart from Marquez who he floored 4 times in two fights.

That's a staggering record I don't know of any other fighter who has done that, especially across so many weight classes.

He's already the equal of Hearns, Hagler, Whitaker in my mind in terms of acomplishments and arguably he's done as much as Duran and Leonard.

IF he beat Floyd Mayweather I honestly don't see a boxer in history with better resume than that

Well my good man the show me.
Show me where you would rank him.

Here's some names to get "you" started.
SRR
Henry
Ali
Alexis
JCC
Duran
Pernell
Louis
Monzon
SRL
Langford
Benny
Pep
Gans
Greb
Marciano
Hearns
Hagler
Wilde
Walker
Ketchel
Ezzard
Archie
Olivares
Jofre
Ross
Ike
Holyfield
Sanchez
Kid Gavilan
RJJ
PBF
Hopkins

You tell me when to stop....

[CutMeMick]

I am NOT disputing his greatness or that he's not an ATG.
I am disputing him top 5 all time.

It would be stupid to say he's not an ATG.
He is but top 5 all time? Not in my books.

[Kev]

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

Let's slow down a bit here... Top 5 ALL TIME.
That is a bit too much.
Yes this was a great win and a win that put's him as #1 P4P right now.
But he has unfinished business with JMM and until then I'm sorry but he's not near the top 10 P4P all time.
If I barely have Floyd somewhere around 20 All time Pac still has a ways to go before he touches Top 20.

You wouldn't even have him in the top 20

He's won world titles in 6 divisions, and not just paper trinkets but he's beaten the undisputed champions of many of those divisions.

His resume compares to any boxer who has ever lived. Morales, Marquez, Barrera, De La Hoya and Hatton are all Hall of Fame bound and he knocked all of them out apart from Marquez who he floored 4 times in two fights.

That's a staggering record I don't know of any other fighter who has done that, especially across so many weight classes.

He's already the equal of Hearns, Hagler, Whitaker in my mind in terms of acomplishments and arguably he's done as much as Duran and Leonard.

IF he beat Floyd Mayweather I honestly don't see a boxer in history with better resume than that

Well my good man the show me.
Show me where you would rank him.

Here's some names to get "you" started.
SRR
Henry
Ali
Alexis
JCC
Duran
Pernell
Louis
Monzon
SRL
Langford
Benny
Pep
Gans
Greb
Marciano
Hearns
Hagler
Wilde
Walker
Ketchel
Ezzard
Archie
Olivares
Jofre
Ross
Ike
Holyfield
Sanchez
Kid Gavilan
RJJ
PBF
Hopkins

You tell me when to stop....

Well Mick I won't pretend I know a great deal about a lot of fighters on that list but let me run through a few.

Marvin Hagler. Sorry but Pacquaio in my opinion rates above Hagler. Hagler stuck to a single weight class and fought I believe 3 Hall of Famers, certainly three great fighters. One he KO'd in spectacular fashion, another coming up from lightweight he won on points (I don't think that is all THAT amazing) and the other the Ray Leonard he lost. You may argue it was close but he still lost. He never went to light heavy let alone up to heavyweight which is the equivilant of what Manny has done.

Hopkins, Surely Manny's resume is better than Hop's. Hopkins is a legend but his biggest wins in his prime were against smaller men, and his even though he's a two weight champ he never fought a bigger man in his career, Hopkins was always a light heavyweight. I consider Pacquaio's resume to be above Hopkins.

Joe Luis reigned for an awful long time but he never beat anyone in the top 20 All time great list so how can you disqualify Pacqauio for not having done that (when there simply havnt been any top 20 all times for him to fight) but not penalise Luis.

And comparing fights Pacqauio's wins are better than Luis no question imo. Luis never fought any other all time great heavy's yet Pacqauio has beaten a who's who of all time greats.

Monzon, again ruled only one weight class. I don't know a great deal about his opponents but Naples and Emille Griffith were the best I believe and to me are no better than Barrera and Morales on an all time. Add in Marquez, Hatton and De Le Hoya and I think Manny eclipses him.

Willie Pep is another that mystifies me a bit. Stuck in one division as far as I know and the only fighters he fought whose names I recognise he lost to.


I simply don't think it as impressive to stay in one weight class and beat all comers (actually most in your list didn't even do that they lost significant fights as well) rather than move through 6 (SIX!!) weight classes and beat the BEST in those division.s

I honestly think his resume is much better than most of those you mention and its only nostalgia that taints our view.

For a man to come from flyweight to rule as high as junior welter and beat a legend at welter is something that to my knowledge has never been done in the history of the sport, certainly not in the modern game.

Jones Jr went up to heavyweight, fought the weakest champ and won on points, Manny went up to light welter, fought the undisputed champ at the weight and destroyed him in two rounds.

He is the kind of fighter the likes of which I don't think has ever been seen in the sport exactly, a fighter who not only went through 6 weight classes, an elite few have done that, but he fought the best in those divisions, and he destroyed most of them! Who else in the history of boxing has done that?

Not Jones Jr, Not Sugar Ray Leonard, not Robinson, not Duran, certainly not Hagler, Monzon, Pep etc.

He is unique in the history of the sport.

[Kev]

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

Let's slow down a bit here... Top 5 ALL TIME.
That is a bit too much.
Yes this was a great win and a win that put's him as #1 P4P right now.
But he has unfinished business with JMM and until then I'm sorry but he's not near the top 10 P4P all time.
If I barely have Floyd somewhere around 20 All time Pac still has a ways to go before he touches Top 20.

You wouldn't even have him in the top 20

He's won world titles in 6 divisions, and not just paper trinkets but he's beaten the undisputed champions of many of those divisions.

His resume compares to any boxer who has ever lived. Morales, Marquez, Barrera, De La Hoya and Hatton are all Hall of Fame bound and he knocked all of them out apart from Marquez who he floored 4 times in two fights.

That's a staggering record I don't know of any other fighter who has done that, especially across so many weight classes.

He's already the equal of Hearns, Hagler, Whitaker in my mind in terms of acomplishments and arguably he's done as much as Duran and Leonard.

IF he beat Floyd Mayweather I honestly don't see a boxer in history with better resume than that

Well my good man the show me.
Show me where you would rank him.

Here's some names to get "you" started.
SRR
Henry
Ali
Alexis
JCC
Duran
Pernell
Louis
Monzon
SRL
Langford
Benny
Pep
Gans
Greb
Marciano
Hearns
Hagler
Wilde
Walker
Ketchel
Ezzard
Archie
Olivares
Jofre
Ross
Ike
Holyfield
Sanchez
Kid Gavilan
RJJ
PBF
Hopkins

You tell me when to stop....

Well Mick I won't pretend I know a great deal about a lot of fighters on that list but let me run through a few.

Marvin Hagler. Sorry but Pacquaio in my opinion rates above Hagler. Hagler stuck to a single weight class and fought I believe 3 Hall of Famers, certainly three great fighters. One he KO'd in spectacular fashion, another coming up from lightweight he won on points (I don't think that is all THAT amazing) and the other the Ray Leonard he lost. You may argue it was close but he still lost. He never went to light heavy let alone up to heavyweight which is the equivilant of what Manny has done.

Hopkins, Surely Manny's resume is better than Hop's. Hopkins is a legend but his biggest wins in his prime were against smaller men, and his even though he's a two weight champ he never fought a bigger man in his career, Hopkins was always a light heavyweight. I consider Pacquaio's resume to be above Hopkins.

Joe Luis reigned for an awful long time but he never beat anyone in the top 20 All time great list so how can you disqualify Pacqauio for not having done that (when there simply havnt been any top 20 all times for him to fight) but not penalise Luis.

And comparing fights Pacqauio's wins are better than Luis no question imo. Luis never fought any other all time great heavy's yet Pacqauio has beaten a who's who of all time greats.

Monzon, again ruled only one weight class. I don't know a great deal about his opponents but Naples and Emille Griffith were the best I believe and to me are no better than Barrera and Morales on an all time. Add in Marquez, Hatton and De Le Hoya and I think Manny eclipses him.

Willie Pep is another that mystifies me a bit. Stuck in one division as far as I know and the only fighters he fought whose names I recognise he lost to.


I simply don't think it as impressive to stay in one weight class and beat all comers (actually most in your list didn't even do that they lost significant fights as well) rather than move through 6 (SIX!!) weight classes and beat the BEST in those division.s

I honestly think his resume is much better than most of those you mention and its only nostalgia that taints our view.

For a man to come from flyweight to rule as high as junior welter and beat a legend at welter is something that to my knowledge has never been done in the history of the sport, certainly not in the modern game.

Jones Jr went up to heavyweight, fought the weakest champ and won on points, Manny went up to light welter, fought the undisputed champ at the weight and destroyed him in two rounds.

He is the kind of fighter the likes of which I don't think has ever been seen in the sport exactly, a fighter who not only went through 6 weight classes, an elite few have done that, but he fought the best in those divisions, and he destroyed most of them! Who else in the history of boxing has done that?

Not Jones Jr, Not Sugar Ray Leonard, not Robinson, not Duran, certainly not Hagler, Monzon, Pep etc.

He is unique in the history of the sport.