Daily Show calls Truman a war criminal

[Gandalf]

At the end of the day the USA is still the good guy.

Every nation likes to think that about themselves.

America has had it's many moments when that could be questioned. But I'm hopeful that this change in administration might lead to a renewed attitude of respect for the states. It's been very touch and go with Bush at the helm.

I find it very hard to make excuses for his time in office.

[El Kabong]

Well miles has America not done enough good to outweigh the bad they may have done?

No country or leader is without sin or mistake....America atones for past sins by welcoming everyone and being a stronghold of freedom and liberty for everyone to enjoy.

Al Queda doesn't follow the Geneva Convention, they don't wear uniforms, they don't try and avoid civilian casualties, they do more than just torture people AND all those people have to be is not be muslim or not be muslims enough for them and they will cut their heads off as if it was the Crusades all over again...so using a set of guidelines like the Geneva Convention seems a bit too "modern" for the enemy we are fighting

[Gandalf]

Well miles has America not done enough good to outweigh the bad they may have done?

No country or leader is without sin or mistake....America atones for past sins by welcoming everyone and being a stronghold of freedom and liberty for everyone to enjoy.

Al Queda doesn't follow the Geneva Convention, they don't wear uniforms, they don't try and avoid civilian casualties, they do more than just torture people AND all those people have to be is not be muslim or not be muslims enough for them and they will cut their heads off as if it was the Crusades all over again...so using a set of guidelines like the Geneva Convention seems a bit too "modern" for the enemy we are fighting

I don't need to debate that with you because I'm sure you know that overall my picture of the US is positive. But I was certainly not a fan of the Bush years and certain policies in times before, especially Israeli policy.

One thing I always expect of America, and I don't think it is unreasonable, and that is to always try and show the moral highground as the nation that leads all others. That did get lost under Bush for me, but is possibly getting back in line under Obama.

Admittedly, it's not easy to maintain a moral highground when you have nations like China and Russia doing what they want. But America should lead the way and not stoop to the level of vagabond terrorist groups.

[VictorCharlie]

I personally would like to see the US take a much more isolationist foreign policy. Being the "world police" is a largely thankless job that quite often brings more problems than its worth.

[boozeboxer]

I personally would like to see the US take a much more isolationist foreign policy. Being the "world police" is a largely thankless job that quite often brings more problems than its worth.

Totally agree.
We are a country with a crumbling infrastructure.......we need to really take care of things here.

[El Kabong]

People can dislike Bush all they want to for whatever reasons but we were going to Iraq no matter what, it was predestined, Saddam was going to be ousted whether by coup or invasion, even Al Gore had stepped up his language on the subject of Iraq.

I completely understand and agree on the US having the moral high ground, and I even with Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, and all the water boarding scandals that we still undoubtedly have the moral high ground.

The question you have to ask yourself is, how far can you go to protect your country and still be in the right? And I think that is where the fundamental difference is between the people who don't think waterboarding is that big of a deal and the people who think water boarding is morally wrong. Anything more extreme than those views are strictly political in their nature and the people spouting them either just want to be "right" or they want to punish former/current politicians in power.

In a non-joking manner the movie, Dark Knight is very similar to what situation the US is in. You have a villain who obeys no rules, America is bound by the Geneva Convention, America belongs to the UN, America has to answer for their actions and their enemies don't. Al Queda doesn't have A COUNTRY, they don't have A GOVERNMENT, they are without borders, uniforms, ranks, and limits. Because of that America must fight their enemy and win...but the question is HOW do you win? Do you follow your rules and guidelines and maybe accept that more casualties/collateral damage will be inflicted by these villains? Or do you follow no rules like your enemy and in winning put your morals and values on the line instead of the citizens you are bound by law to protect?

There is no right or wrong in this situation, there are different shades of gray and anyone saying otherwise is just posturing for political purposes.

[VictorCharlie]

Lyle a dramatic shift in our policies on energy and Israel would go a long way in removing us from militant Islam's cross hairs. I don't know if you watched the videos I posted in my Global Eco thread but I found it really interesting. You and I tend to agree on a smaller and limited federal government but moving our country away from a dependence on foreign oil can only be done by government mandates. Regardless of ones opinion about right or wrong in regards to Israel, as long as they are forming settlements they are an imperialistic power and no longer need our economic and military support. I didn't vote for Obama but these are two issue I felt he could make happen. So far I am not seeing much.

[El Kabong]

I don't know if I fully agree with that Van. If there was a "simple solution" then we would have done it years ago. Without Israel we don't have many true Allies over there part of that is our fault and part of it is their fault.

If we buy their oil a group of those guys are happy while another group is unhappy, if we don't buy their oil then the guys who had been happy are unhappy and who knows about the other group.

[VictorCharlie]

Well I think the reason the solution its not simple is because of the tremendous lobby that both Israel and Oil companies use.