Insights on the PAC-COTTO Catchweight match

[brucelee]

I was browsing thru youtube yesterday and I came across this guy stating his total disgust regarding PAC's probable catchweight match against Cotto, though I agree with him that if PAC wants the Welterweight title that he should do it at 147. I totally agree with him!!!
But what I was shocked was when he said PAC should instead fight his mandatories at 140 or give NATE CAMPBELL a shot
I am no boxer or promoter but anybody with a common sense would know that fighting a slightly weight drained Cotto or Mosely for that matter is still more dangerous than these guys(if he's looking to see PAC lose) and looking at a financial standpoint PAC will not earn that much against these guys.
He also stated that PAC's accomplishments have been done before, yes I agree there is a handful of fighters with multiple weight div championships but how many is gunning for a 7th? How many is 5'6 with a naturally smaller frame(built) and is a knockout puncher in his 6th weight championship?

well said and nice qyestion. my answer is no one! that's why Pac is all-time great and is in my top 5 ATG.

[spade]

I was browsing thru youtube yesterday and I came across this guy stating his total disgust regarding PAC's probable catchweight match against Cotto, though I agree with him that if PAC wants the Welterweight title that he should do it at 147. I totally agree with him!!!
But what I was shocked was when he said PAC should instead fight his mandatories at 140 or give NATE CAMPBELL a shot
I am no boxer or promoter but anybody with a common sense would know that fighting a slightly weight drained Cotto or Mosely for that matter is still more dangerous than these guys(if he's looking to see PAC lose) and looking at a financial standpoint PAC will not earn that much against these guys.
He also stated that PAC's accomplishments have been done before, yes I agree there is a handful of fighters with multiple weight div championships but how many is gunning for a 7th? How many is 5'6 with a naturally smaller frame(built) and is a knockout puncher in his 6th weight championship?

well said and nice qyestion. my answer is no one! that's why Pac is all-time great and is in my top 5 ATG.

Even if he wins against Cotto at 145 instead of 147?

[KananKrus]

I think the fight should be at the 147 limit. I see no point in Freddie Roach's apprehension except probably for their perceived, a decidedly Cotto advantage at fight night after rehydration and the overnight weight gain if he is to start rehydrating from 147.

The Pac group is probably uncomfortable about the odds of the fight if Miguel Cotto is to weigh about 160 lbs or thereabouts when the bell rings for round one! This will be too big, if Pacquiao can only rehydrate in the 148-150 range (Pac was 148.5 against Oscar DelaHoya at fight night, a gain of only 6.5 lbs from 142 on weighing scales day).

Bringing down the limit to 145 for the bout, all things considered, will pose a bit of a deterrent for Cotto to get "that big" and still be without visible after-effect of over rehydration, which is lacking a seciond wind, and etc.. which one can consider a handicap.

When Pacquiao was fighting at 130, and he thoughtlessly rehydrated to 146 at fight night, I think against JMM 2, he had difficulties with stamina, almost out of breath in last third of each round. He was unable to go full throttle to deliver 3-minute rounds of offense. This is an essential which surely is viewed by Roach, as an invaluable attribute in mega fights, such as this one of Pac against Miguel Cotto.

For Cotto to have this "essential" at 160 pounds or so, I believe that the Pacquiao camp sees this as a tragic consequence for Manny's ability to compete atop the ring, and make a fight out of it on equal terms. Cotto fit at 155 is probably the ideal, while at 160 will be a marked disadvantage for Pacquiao.

I believe anybody without going overboard, will clearly reconize that Roach is just out for the welfare of his fighter as would any trainer worth his salt is avowed to do.

I say 147, but 145 is not that much of a sacrifice on Cotto's part, if he is to prove a superiority over the smaller, but P4P king!

His date with destiny is just within reach, shedding the 2 extra pounds is nothing if at the end of it when victorious, is boxing imortality, he knows it.

[blegit]

Well, the 7 weight class thing is not what people play it out to be. Pac started pro at the age of 15 years old. So naturally most people are going to grow a significant range from 15 years old to 30 years old. From 16-30 years old I won amateur tournaments from 106lbs. to 147lbs.in every weight class between. If I would've been a bigger guy then that many weight classes couldn't have been possible. At the lighter weight classes in the pros its even more possible because they are only 3 to 4 pounds apart. Pac won titles from 112 to 140. Thats only 28 pounds from being a teenager to being in your 30s. People are looking at the weight classes instead of seeing the fact that it is only 28 pounds. Many fighters have done that. If all the upper weight classes were separated by even 3 to 7 lbs. then RJJ and others would've been a 10 weight class champ. Pac fought from 105-147. There are 11 weight classes in that 41 pound difference. Fighters don't make the weight classes or their genes. Only small guys can fight in that many weight classes because of the format. I think Pac is the best fighter in the world right now but what people are getting riled up about is that if you want to win a welterweight title then it should be at 147. How fair is it to have Mosley, Cotto, or a Williams come below 147 and still put their welterweight title on the line? Its a farce. And believe me on this...when you are cutting weight tooth and nail every little last ounce hurts. 2lbs. will be a factor against Cotto, a guy who barely makes 147. If it wasn't a factor then why would Roach be adamant about the catchweight? He fought DLH at 147 with huge success. But Roach knows DLH was not effective at welterweight and Cotto and Mosley are. Roach said clearly that he would not let Pac fight any welterweight at 147 except PBF. So the weight drain is the factor Roach is trying to implement. Lets be real about that and less people will keep arguing this obvious move. Like I said, Pac is the best and so is Roach but call it what it is. They want the bigger names but not the bigger guy.

[fan johnny]

Well, the 7 weight class thing is not what people play it out to be. Pac started pro at the age of 15 years old. So naturally most people are going to grow a significant range from 15 years old to 30 years old. From 16-30 years old I won amateur tournaments from 106lbs. to 147lbs.in every weight class between. If I would've been a bigger guy then that many weight classes couldn't have been possible. At the lighter weight classes in the pros its even more possible because they are only 3 to 4 pounds apart. Pac won titles from 112 to 140. Thats only 28 pounds from being a teenager to being in your 30s. People are looking at the weight classes instead of seeing the fact that it is only 28 pounds. Many fighters have done that. If all the upper weight classes were separated by even 3 to 7 lbs. then RJJ and others would've been a 10 weight class champ. Pac fought from 105-147. There are 11 weight classes in that 41 pound difference. Fighters don't make the weight classes or their genes. Only small guys can fight in that many weight classes because of the format. I think Pac is the best fighter in the world right now but what people are getting riled up about is that if you want to win a welterweight title then it should be at 147. How fair is it to have Mosley, Cotto, or a Williams come below 147 and still put their welterweight title on the line? Its a farce. And believe me on this...when you are cutting weight tooth and nail every little last ounce hurts. 2lbs. will be a factor against Cotto, a guy who barely makes 147. If it wasn't a factor then why would Roach be adamant about the catchweight? He fought DLH at 147 with huge success. But Roach knows DLH was not effective at welterweight and Cotto and Mosley are. Roach said clearly that he would not let Pac fight any welterweight at 147 except PBF. So the weight drain is the factor Roach is trying to implement. Lets be real about that and less people will keep arguing this obvious move. Like I said, Pac is the best and so is Roach but call it what it is. They want the bigger names but not the bigger guy.

That's so lame! Cotto is not old like Mosley and can easily manage his weight without having to dehydrate at the last minute.

[blegit]

Well, the 7 weight class thing is not what people play it out to be. Pac started pro at the age of 15 years old. So naturally most people are going to grow a significant range from 15 years old to 30 years old. From 16-30 years old I won amateur tournaments from 106lbs. to 147lbs.in every weight class between. If I would've been a bigger guy then that many weight classes couldn't have been possible. At the lighter weight classes in the pros its even more possible because they are only 3 to 4 pounds apart. Pac won titles from 112 to 140. Thats only 28 pounds from being a teenager to being in your 30s. People are looking at the weight classes instead of seeing the fact that it is only 28 pounds. Many fighters have done that. If all the upper weight classes were separated by even 3 to 7 lbs. then RJJ and others would've been a 10 weight class champ. Pac fought from 105-147. There are 11 weight classes in that 41 pound difference. Fighters don't make the weight classes or their genes. Only small guys can fight in that many weight classes because of the format. I think Pac is the best fighter in the world right now but what people are getting riled up about is that if you want to win a welterweight title then it should be at 147. How fair is it to have Mosley, Cotto, or a Williams come below 147 and still put their welterweight title on the line? Its a farce. And believe me on this...when you are cutting weight tooth and nail every little last ounce hurts. 2lbs. will be a factor against Cotto, a guy who barely makes 147. If it wasn't a factor then why would Roach be adamant about the catchweight? He fought DLH at 147 with huge success. But Roach knows DLH was not effective at welterweight and Cotto and Mosley are. Roach said clearly that he would not let Pac fight any welterweight at 147 except PBF. So the weight drain is the factor Roach is trying to implement. Lets be real about that and less people will keep arguing this obvious move. Like I said, Pac is the best and so is Roach but call it what it is. They want the bigger names but not the bigger guy.

That's so lame! Cotto is not old like Mosley and can easily manage his weight without having to dehydrate at the last minute.

You must not be aware of the fact that Cotto's team says he's having trouble making 147 and that is why the original catchweight proposal of 143 was impossible. But Mosley said he would go to 143 and Pac's team refused that offer. I guess I'm the only Pac fan who acknowledges Mosley calling him out, calling his bluff on the catchweight, taking the lopsided purse split yet no takers.

[generalbulldog]

Well, the 7 weight class thing is not what people play it out to be. Pac started pro at the age of 15 years old. So naturally most people are going to grow a significant range from 15 years old to 30 years old. From 16-30 years old I won amateur tournaments from 106lbs. to 147lbs.in every weight class between. If I would've been a bigger guy then that many weight classes couldn't have been possible. At the lighter weight classes in the pros its even more possible because they are only 3 to 4 pounds apart. Pac won titles from 112 to 140. Thats only 28 pounds from being a teenager to being in your 30s. People are looking at the weight classes instead of seeing the fact that it is only 28 pounds. Many fighters have done that. If all the upper weight classes were separated by even 3 to 7 lbs. then RJJ and others would've been a 10 weight class champ. Pac fought from 105-147. There are 11 weight classes in that 41 pound difference. Fighters don't make the weight classes or their genes. Only small guys can fight in that many weight classes because of the format. I think Pac is the best fighter in the world right now but what people are getting riled up about is that if you want to win a welterweight title then it should be at 147. How fair is it to have Mosley, Cotto, or a Williams come below 147 and still put their welterweight title on the line? Its a farce. And believe me on this...when you are cutting weight tooth and nail every little last ounce hurts. 2lbs. will be a factor against Cotto, a guy who barely makes 147. If it wasn't a factor then why would Roach be adamant about the catchweight? He fought DLH at 147 with huge success. But Roach knows DLH was not effective at welterweight and Cotto and Mosley are. Roach said clearly that he would not let Pac fight any welterweight at 147 except PBF. So the weight drain is the factor Roach is trying to implement. Lets be real about that and less people will keep arguing this obvious move. Like I said, Pac is the best and so is Roach but call it what it is. They want the bigger names but not the bigger guy.

This is one lameass post. I'm pretty sure everyone around here knows I'm not a Pac fan but this post at first you suggested like a few pounds isn't that much of a difference in the lower weight classes and then near the end of the post you're saying 2 pounds is too much for Cotto. I've heard that there are no titles on the line, if so then I have no problem with it being at a catch weight. If Cotto was 146 for the Clottey fight, he can make 144 which imo is fair to both sides.

No one complained about the Hopkins-Pavlik fight being at a catchweight right? Because that wasn't for a title.

[blegit]

Well, the 7 weight class thing is not what people play it out to be. Pac started pro at the age of 15 years old. So naturally most people are going to grow a significant range from 15 years old to 30 years old. From 16-30 years old I won amateur tournaments from 106lbs. to 147lbs.in every weight class between. If I would've been a bigger guy then that many weight classes couldn't have been possible. At the lighter weight classes in the pros its even more possible because they are only 3 to 4 pounds apart. Pac won titles from 112 to 140. Thats only 28 pounds from being a teenager to being in your 30s. People are looking at the weight classes instead of seeing the fact that it is only 28 pounds. Many fighters have done that. If all the upper weight classes were separated by even 3 to 7 lbs. then RJJ and others would've been a 10 weight class champ. Pac fought from 105-147. There are 11 weight classes in that 41 pound difference. Fighters don't make the weight classes or their genes. Only small guys can fight in that many weight classes because of the format. I think Pac is the best fighter in the world right now but what people are getting riled up about is that if you want to win a welterweight title then it should be at 147. How fair is it to have Mosley, Cotto, or a Williams come below 147 and still put their welterweight title on the line? Its a farce. And believe me on this...when you are cutting weight tooth and nail every little last ounce hurts. 2lbs. will be a factor against Cotto, a guy who barely makes 147. If it wasn't a factor then why would Roach be adamant about the catchweight? He fought DLH at 147 with huge success. But Roach knows DLH was not effective at welterweight and Cotto and Mosley are. Roach said clearly that he would not let Pac fight any welterweight at 147 except PBF. So the weight drain is the factor Roach is trying to implement. Lets be real about that and less people will keep arguing this obvious move. Like I said, Pac is the best and so is Roach but call it what it is. They want the bigger names but not the bigger guy.

This is one lameass post. I'm pretty sure everyone around here knows I'm not a Pac fan but this post at first you suggested like a few pounds isn't that much of a difference in the lower weight classes and then near the end of the post you're saying 2 pounds is too much for Cotto. I've heard that there are no titles on the line, if so then I have no problem with it being at a catch weight. If Cotto was 146 for the Clottey fight, he can make 144 which imo is fair to both sides.

No one complained about the Hopkins-Pavlik fight being at a catchweight right? Because that wasn't for a title.

Maybe its lame because you misunderstood. I am a Pac fan but I keep it factual. I never said a few pounds in the lower weights weren't anything. Nice try. A few pounds is a big difference and I stand by that. You've obviously never cut weight before. Hell, in the lower weight classes even the weight classes themselves are separated by a few pounds. If a few pounds is nothing then why is Roach and Pac adamant about the catchweight? What I also said was if the fight is going to be for Pac's so called 7th weight class title then it needs to be at welterweight, 147. Otherwise it is just a fight just like Hopkins/Pavlik.

[fan johnny]

Well, the 7 weight class thing is not what people play it out to be. Pac started pro at the age of 15 years old. So naturally most people are going to grow a significant range from 15 years old to 30 years old. From 16-30 years old I won amateur tournaments from 106lbs. to 147lbs.in every weight class between. If I would've been a bigger guy then that many weight classes couldn't have been possible. At the lighter weight classes in the pros its even more possible because they are only 3 to 4 pounds apart. Pac won titles from 112 to 140. Thats only 28 pounds from being a teenager to being in your 30s. People are looking at the weight classes instead of seeing the fact that it is only 28 pounds. Many fighters have done that. If all the upper weight classes were separated by even 3 to 7 lbs. then RJJ and others would've been a 10 weight class champ. Pac fought from 105-147. There are 11 weight classes in that 41 pound difference. Fighters don't make the weight classes or their genes. Only small guys can fight in that many weight classes because of the format. I think Pac is the best fighter in the world right now but what people are getting riled up about is that if you want to win a welterweight title then it should be at 147. How fair is it to have Mosley, Cotto, or a Williams come below 147 and still put their welterweight title on the line? Its a farce. And believe me on this...when you are cutting weight tooth and nail every little last ounce hurts. 2lbs. will be a factor against Cotto, a guy who barely makes 147. If it wasn't a factor then why would Roach be adamant about the catchweight? He fought DLH at 147 with huge success. But Roach knows DLH was not effective at welterweight and Cotto and Mosley are. Roach said clearly that he would not let Pac fight any welterweight at 147 except PBF. So the weight drain is the factor Roach is trying to implement. Lets be real about that and less people will keep arguing this obvious move. Like I said, Pac is the best and so is Roach but call it what it is. They want the bigger names but not the bigger guy.

This is one lameass post. I'm pretty sure everyone around here knows I'm not a Pac fan but this post at first you suggested like a few pounds isn't that much of a difference in the lower weight classes and then near the end of the post you're saying 2 pounds is too much for Cotto. I've heard that there are no titles on the line, if so then I have no problem with it being at a catch weight. If Cotto was 146 for the Clottey fight, he can make 144 which imo is fair to both sides.

No one complained about the Hopkins-Pavlik fight being at a catchweight right? Because that wasn't for a title.

Maybe its lame because you misunderstood. I am a Pac fan but I keep it factual. I never said a few pounds in the lower weights weren't anything. Nice try. A few pounds is a big difference and I stand by that. You've obviously never cut weight before. Hell, in the lower weight classes even the weight classes themselves are separated by a few pounds. If a few pounds is nothing then why is Roach and Pac adamant about the catchweight? What I also said was if the fight is going to be for Pac's so called 7th weight class title then it needs to be at welterweight, 147. Otherwise it is just a fight just like Hopkins/Pavlik.

That is not complete fact. Welterweight is 140.01 to 147. Not 147 lbs only.

[generalbulldog]

Well, the 7 weight class thing is not what people play it out to be. Pac started pro at the age of 15 years old. So naturally most people are going to grow a significant range from 15 years old to 30 years old. From 16-30 years old I won amateur tournaments from 106lbs. to 147lbs.in every weight class between. If I would've been a bigger guy then that many weight classes couldn't have been possible. At the lighter weight classes in the pros its even more possible because they are only 3 to 4 pounds apart. Pac won titles from 112 to 140. Thats only 28 pounds from being a teenager to being in your 30s. People are looking at the weight classes instead of seeing the fact that it is only 28 pounds. Many fighters have done that. If all the upper weight classes were separated by even 3 to 7 lbs. then RJJ and others would've been a 10 weight class champ. Pac fought from 105-147. There are 11 weight classes in that 41 pound difference. Fighters don't make the weight classes or their genes. Only small guys can fight in that many weight classes because of the format. I think Pac is the best fighter in the world right now but what people are getting riled up about is that if you want to win a welterweight title then it should be at 147. How fair is it to have Mosley, Cotto, or a Williams come below 147 and still put their welterweight title on the line? Its a farce. And believe me on this...when you are cutting weight tooth and nail every little last ounce hurts. 2lbs. will be a factor against Cotto, a guy who barely makes 147. If it wasn't a factor then why would Roach be adamant about the catchweight? He fought DLH at 147 with huge success. But Roach knows DLH was not effective at welterweight and Cotto and Mosley are. Roach said clearly that he would not let Pac fight any welterweight at 147 except PBF. So the weight drain is the factor Roach is trying to implement. Lets be real about that and less people will keep arguing this obvious move. Like I said, Pac is the best and so is Roach but call it what it is. They want the bigger names but not the bigger guy.

This is one lameass post. I'm pretty sure everyone around here knows I'm not a Pac fan but this post at first you suggested like a few pounds isn't that much of a difference in the lower weight classes and then near the end of the post you're saying 2 pounds is too much for Cotto. I've heard that there are no titles on the line, if so then I have no problem with it being at a catch weight. If Cotto was 146 for the Clottey fight, he can make 144 which imo is fair to both sides.

No one complained about the Hopkins-Pavlik fight being at a catchweight right? Because that wasn't for a title.

Maybe its lame because you misunderstood. I am a Pac fan but I keep it factual. I never said a few pounds in the lower weights weren't anything. Nice try. A few pounds is a big difference and I stand by that. You've obviously never cut weight before. Hell, in the lower weight classes even the weight classes themselves are separated by a few pounds. If a few pounds is nothing then why is Roach and Pac adamant about the catchweight? What I also said was if the fight is going to be for Pac's so called 7th weight class title then it needs to be at welterweight, 147. Otherwise it is just a fight just like Hopkins/Pavlik.

Let's dissect your previous post.

Well, the 7 weight class thing is not what people play it out to be.

At the lighter weight classes in the pros its even more possible because they are only 3 to 4 pounds apart.

Pac won titles from 112 to 140. Thats only 28 pounds from being a teenager to being in your 30s. People are looking at the weight classes instead of seeing the fact that it is only 28 pounds.

You didn't say it straight out, but you're implying that the lower weight classes since it being only 3-4 pounds apart is easy for anyone to do what Pacman did. You keep on bringing up it's only 28 pounds apart in so many weight divisions. As if it being such an easy thing, because the lower weight divisions are only a few pounds apart. Nice try in trying to back track.

You are basically saying since the lower weight classes are only a few pounds apart it doesn't really matter and is very easy to do. I mean it's only 28 pounds right? You keep on saying 28 pounds is easy. But then bring up Cotto is at an unfair disadvantage because he has to shed 2 pounds.

That's why it's lame. It's inconsistent as hell.