roberto MANOS DE PIEDRA duran

[paddy448]

Duran just turned 29 in his first fight against Leonard, so I don't know about all of this he was past his prime and unprepared as Duran has used as his excuse over the years in the 2nd fight. It's his job to be prepared and ready for a fight. Was he above his best natural fighting weight, yeah. But I also don't buy the theory that he could have been unbeatable at jr. welterweight or even welterweight as you suggested and said in theory, that's why I guess they are just that theories and opinions in dream matches.

And why use Trinidad against Duran at welterweight? Let's up the ante even more and use the king of all p4p fighters and use the original Sugar Ray. Let's use the 29 year old version of Duran that fought Leonard against the original Sugar at welterweight. Who wins?

Since this thread basically was about Duran in hypothetical dream matches. Why use Trinidad and not use the king of all prize fighters? I say the original Sugar gives a massive beat down to Duran if Duran wants to brawl with him, but since Sugar was so smart he'll probably just outbox the guy and makes him quit in the middle rounds just like the guy who borrows his nickname.

If we're going to speculate about dream matches let's use the best, might as well speculate about Duran's chances at that weight against the king of prize fighters. Duran was very good at welter but no way in theory or however you put it was unbeatable even if he was motivated at that weight against the best in history. Great fighter at lw, good at ww, but gets a massive beat down in history against the guy that every boxing expert out there has said has no weaknesses.

do u no what i never thought of ray robinson and duran, that is a dream fight, no one could say for sure who would win this fight,but just off top of my head id have to say sugar, but im going to go away and watch some of his fights again and ill come back with a definitive answer, i still cant believe u said witaker and mayweather at 135,140,147 would make duran look stupid. oh yeah and the second ray leonard fight duran was not at his best, even sugar ray said that, he said it was his plan to get duran in the ring when he did cause hed balloned in weight so much and he new he wasnt livin well, i have the interview i will try get it for u

I do know about Duran ballooning up in weight between fights and I did see the Leonard interview where Leonard said that they exploited that weakness, but still it's Duran's job to come prepared physically and mentally especially in a championship match against an elite talent like Leonard. IMO even if he came in prepared he still gets outbox by Leonard, because Leonard isn't going to fight Duran's fight again, he learned his lesson and the 2nd Sugar Ray is the better boxer.

The reason why I said Whittaker and Mayweather beats Duran at 135, 140, and 147 is this, Whittaker and Mayweather are not just only elite boxers but also elite defensive masterminds and Duran had trouble with elite boxers. Whittaker and Mayweather aren't going to be drawn into a brawl, that's not their style. They will outbox him and counterpunch and use their footspeed, fast hands, and quick reflexes to their advantages. So I asked myself this question, Can Duran outbox them? My answer is no.

And if there was a time machine where a 29 year old Duran is transported into the 40s and fought a prime Sugar Ray at welterweight, I'm sorry Duran gets outbox in an UD win for SRR or gets knocked out, visions of what Hearns did to Duran but at welterweight with the original Sugar Ray comes to mind, I dont' think that fight will be close. So I don't buy the "In theory Duran could be virtually unbeatable at welterweight" thing that the other poster was talking about. Sure maybe he can beat a Tito Trinidad at welter weight, but like I said might as well use the best and speculate how Duran would have done against SRR.

witaker and mayweather might be better boxers than duran not by much, but duran is a much better fighter, at 135 duran eats these two, 140 and 147 i still thinks he beats them, u have to admit in any weight to say they would make duran look foolish is over the top. if you havent i urge u to check some of his lightweight fights out. and u talk about how its durans job to come in fully prepared i understand that, but he still wasnt at his best, im not trying to say leonard couldnt beat duran when hes fully prepared im just sayin duran was a shadow of himself that night. and ur saying about how leonard didnt fight his fight the first time yeah its because duran didnt let him,he didnt give leonard room to breath that fight. duran won fair and square. as for the sugar ray robinson fight i cant really argue with u on that one, although no one nos for sure.

[ICB]

do u no what i never thought of ray robinson and duran, that is a dream fight, no one could say for sure who would win this fight,but just off top of my head id have to say sugar, but im going to go away and watch some of his fights again and ill come back with a definitive answer, i still cant believe u said witaker and mayweather at 135,140,147 would make duran look stupid. oh yeah and the second ray leonard fight duran was not at his best, even sugar ray said that, he said it was his plan to get duran in the ring when he did cause hed balloned in weight so much and he new he wasnt livin well, i have the interview i will try get it for u

I do know about Duran ballooning up in weight between fights and I did see the Leonard interview where Leonard said that they exploited that weakness, but still it's Duran's job to come prepared physically and mentally especially in a championship match against an elite talent like Leonard. IMO even if he came in prepared he still gets outbox by Leonard, because Leonard isn't going to fight Duran's fight again, he learned his lesson and the 2nd Sugar Ray is the better boxer.

The reason why I said Whittaker and Mayweather beats Duran at 135, 140, and 147 is this, Whittaker and Mayweather are not just only elite boxers but also elite defensive masterminds and Duran had trouble with elite boxers. Whittaker and Mayweather aren't going to be drawn into a brawl, that's not their style. They will outbox him and counterpunch and use their footspeed, fast hands, and quick reflexes to their advantages. So I asked myself this question, Can Duran outbox them? My answer is no.

And if there was a time machine where a 29 year old Duran is transported into the 40s and fought a prime Sugar Ray at welterweight, I'm sorry Duran gets outbox in an UD win for SRR or gets knocked out, visions of what Hearns did to Duran but at welterweight with the original Sugar Ray comes to mind, I dont' think that fight will be close. So I don't buy the "In theory Duran could be virtually unbeatable at welterweight" thing that the other poster was talking about. Sure maybe he can beat a Tito Trinidad at welter weight, but like I said might as well use the best and speculate how Duran would have done against SRR.

witaker and mayweather might be better boxers than duran not by much, but duran is a much better fighter, at 135 duran eats these two, 140 and 147 i still thinks he beats them, u have to admit in any weight to say they would make duran look foolish is over the top. if you havent i urge u to check some of his lightweight fights out. and u talk about how its durans job to come in fully prepared i understand that, but he still wasnt at his best, im not trying to say leonard couldnt beat duran when hes fully prepared im just sayin duran was a shadow of himself that night. and ur saying about how leonard didnt fight his fight the first time yeah its because duran didnt let him,he didnt give leonard room to breath that fight. duran won fair and square. as for the sugar ray robinson fight i cant really argue with u on that one, although no one nos for sure.

I don't think you have seen a prime Pernell Whitaker at Lightweight, he was amazing at that weightclass. and he beat some very good fighters at that weightclass like Azumah Nelson, Jose Luis Ramirez x2, Freddie Pendleton, Greg Haugen, Roger Mayweather, Jorge Paez.

And he hardly even got hit while fighting those fighters aswell, and he could also fight at a much higher pace at Lightweight. while being amazingly hard to hit, sometimes he could throw up to 90 punches a round when he had to.

Pernell Whitaker would outbox Roberto Duran at Lightweight, no doubt in my mind. And "The Wind" can tell me about all these cuban boxers Roberto Duran beat at Lightweight, but i can safely say there not even close to Pernell Whitaker.

[paddy448]

I do know about Duran ballooning up in weight between fights and I did see the Leonard interview where Leonard said that they exploited that weakness, but still it's Duran's job to come prepared physically and mentally especially in a championship match against an elite talent like Leonard. IMO even if he came in prepared he still gets outbox by Leonard, because Leonard isn't going to fight Duran's fight again, he learned his lesson and the 2nd Sugar Ray is the better boxer.

The reason why I said Whittaker and Mayweather beats Duran at 135, 140, and 147 is this, Whittaker and Mayweather are not just only elite boxers but also elite defensive masterminds and Duran had trouble with elite boxers. Whittaker and Mayweather aren't going to be drawn into a brawl, that's not their style. They will outbox him and counterpunch and use their footspeed, fast hands, and quick reflexes to their advantages. So I asked myself this question, Can Duran outbox them? My answer is no.

And if there was a time machine where a 29 year old Duran is transported into the 40s and fought a prime Sugar Ray at welterweight, I'm sorry Duran gets outbox in an UD win for SRR or gets knocked out, visions of what Hearns did to Duran but at welterweight with the original Sugar Ray comes to mind, I dont' think that fight will be close. So I don't buy the "In theory Duran could be virtually unbeatable at welterweight" thing that the other poster was talking about. Sure maybe he can beat a Tito Trinidad at welter weight, but like I said might as well use the best and speculate how Duran would have done against SRR.

witaker and mayweather might be better boxers than duran not by much, but duran is a much better fighter, at 135 duran eats these two, 140 and 147 i still thinks he beats them, u have to admit in any weight to say they would make duran look foolish is over the top. if you havent i urge u to check some of his lightweight fights out. and u talk about how its durans job to come in fully prepared i understand that, but he still wasnt at his best, im not trying to say leonard couldnt beat duran when hes fully prepared im just sayin duran was a shadow of himself that night. and ur saying about how leonard didnt fight his fight the first time yeah its because duran didnt let him,he didnt give leonard room to breath that fight. duran won fair and square. as for the sugar ray robinson fight i cant really argue with u on that one, although no one nos for sure.

I don't think you have seen a prime Pernell Whitaker at Lightweight, he was amazing at that weightclass. and he beat some very good fighters at that weightclass like Azumah Nelson, Jose Luis Ramirez x2, Freddie Pendleton, Greg Haugen, Roger Mayweather, Jorge Paez.

And he hardly even got hit while fighting those fighters aswell, and he could also fight at a much higher pace at Lightweight. while being amazingly hard to hit, sometimes he could throw up to 90 punches a round when he had to.

Pernell Whitaker would outbox Roberto Duran at Lightweight, no doubt in my mind. And "The Wind" can tell me about all these cuban boxers Roberto Duran beat at Lightweight, but i can safely say there not even close to Pernell Whitaker.

i agree with u on whitaker, he was something else. and where my statement saying duran would eat him at 135 was a bit strong, i do think duran beats him still

[paddy448]

I do know about Duran ballooning up in weight between fights and I did see the Leonard interview where Leonard said that they exploited that weakness, but still it's Duran's job to come prepared physically and mentally especially in a championship match against an elite talent like Leonard. IMO even if he came in prepared he still gets outbox by Leonard, because Leonard isn't going to fight Duran's fight again, he learned his lesson and the 2nd Sugar Ray is the better boxer.

The reason why I said Whittaker and Mayweather beats Duran at 135, 140, and 147 is this, Whittaker and Mayweather are not just only elite boxers but also elite defensive masterminds and Duran had trouble with elite boxers. Whittaker and Mayweather aren't going to be drawn into a brawl, that's not their style. They will outbox him and counterpunch and use their footspeed, fast hands, and quick reflexes to their advantages. So I asked myself this question, Can Duran outbox them? My answer is no.

And if there was a time machine where a 29 year old Duran is transported into the 40s and fought a prime Sugar Ray at welterweight, I'm sorry Duran gets outbox in an UD win for SRR or gets knocked out, visions of what Hearns did to Duran but at welterweight with the original Sugar Ray comes to mind, I dont' think that fight will be close. So I don't buy the "In theory Duran could be virtually unbeatable at welterweight" thing that the other poster was talking about. Sure maybe he can beat a Tito Trinidad at welter weight, but like I said might as well use the best and speculate how Duran would have done against SRR.

witaker and mayweather might be better boxers than duran not by much, but duran is a much better fighter, at 135 duran eats these two, 140 and 147 i still thinks he beats them, u have to admit in any weight to say they would make duran look foolish is over the top. if you havent i urge u to check some of his lightweight fights out. and u talk about how its durans job to come in fully prepared i understand that, but he still wasnt at his best, im not trying to say leonard couldnt beat duran when hes fully prepared im just sayin duran was a shadow of himself that night. and ur saying about how leonard didnt fight his fight the first time yeah its because duran didnt let him,he didnt give leonard room to breath that fight. duran won fair and square. as for the sugar ray robinson fight i cant really argue with u on that one, although no one nos for sure.

I don't think you have seen a prime Pernell Whitaker at Lightweight, he was amazing at that weightclass. and he beat some very good fighters at that weightclass like Azumah Nelson, Jose Luis Ramirez x2, Freddie Pendleton, Greg Haugen, Roger Mayweather, Jorge Paez.

And he hardly even got hit while fighting those fighters aswell, and he could also fight at a much higher pace at Lightweight. while being amazingly hard to hit, sometimes he could throw up to 90 punches a round when he had to.

Pernell Whitaker would outbox Roberto Duran at Lightweight, no doubt in my mind. And "The Wind" can tell me about all these cuban boxers Roberto Duran beat at Lightweight, but i can safely say there not even close to Pernell Whitaker.

oh yeah icb durans record is better than whitakers at lightweight, duran fought fighters like ernesto marcel,hiroshi kobayashi,ken buchanan,esteban de jesus x3,guts ishimatsu,pedro mendoza,benny huertas,ray lampkin and so on i stongly disagree with u on whitakers lightweight reign being better than durans

[ICB]

witaker and mayweather might be better boxers than duran not by much, but duran is a much better fighter, at 135 duran eats these two, 140 and 147 i still thinks he beats them, u have to admit in any weight to say they would make duran look foolish is over the top. if you havent i urge u to check some of his lightweight fights out. and u talk about how its durans job to come in fully prepared i understand that, but he still wasnt at his best, im not trying to say leonard couldnt beat duran when hes fully prepared im just sayin duran was a shadow of himself that night. and ur saying about how leonard didnt fight his fight the first time yeah its because duran didnt let him,he didnt give leonard room to breath that fight. duran won fair and square. as for the sugar ray robinson fight i cant really argue with u on that one, although no one nos for sure.

I don't think you have seen a prime Pernell Whitaker at Lightweight, he was amazing at that weightclass. and he beat some very good fighters at that weightclass like Azumah Nelson, Jose Luis Ramirez x2, Freddie Pendleton, Greg Haugen, Roger Mayweather, Jorge Paez.

And he hardly even got hit while fighting those fighters aswell, and he could also fight at a much higher pace at Lightweight. while being amazingly hard to hit, sometimes he could throw up to 90 punches a round when he had to.

Pernell Whitaker would outbox Roberto Duran at Lightweight, no doubt in my mind. And "The Wind" can tell me about all these cuban boxers Roberto Duran beat at Lightweight, but i can safely say there not even close to Pernell Whitaker.

oh yeah icb durans record is better than whitakers at lightweight, duran fought fighters like ernesto marcel,hiroshi kobayashi,ken buchanan,esteban de jesus x3,guts ishimatsu,pedro mendoza,benny huertas,ray lampkin and so on i stongly disagree with u on whitakers lightweight reign being better than durans

I never said Pernell Whitaker has a better Lightweight reign, he couldn't have because he wasn't there long enough. But Azumah Nelson is a better fighter than anything on Robert Duran's Lightweight resume.

[paddy448]

I don't think you have seen a prime Pernell Whitaker at Lightweight, he was amazing at that weightclass. and he beat some very good fighters at that weightclass like Azumah Nelson, Jose Luis Ramirez x2, Freddie Pendleton, Greg Haugen, Roger Mayweather, Jorge Paez.

And he hardly even got hit while fighting those fighters aswell, and he could also fight at a much higher pace at Lightweight. while being amazingly hard to hit, sometimes he could throw up to 90 punches a round when he had to.

Pernell Whitaker would outbox Roberto Duran at Lightweight, no doubt in my mind. And "The Wind" can tell me about all these cuban boxers Roberto Duran beat at Lightweight, but i can safely say there not even close to Pernell Whitaker.

oh yeah icb durans record is better than whitakers at lightweight, duran fought fighters like ernesto marcel,hiroshi kobayashi,ken buchanan,esteban de jesus x3,guts ishimatsu,pedro mendoza,benny huertas,ray lampkin and so on i stongly disagree with u on whitakers lightweight reign being better than durans

I never said Pernell Whitaker has a better Lightweight reign, he couldn't have because he wasn't there long enough. But Azumah Nelson is a better fighter than anything on Robert Duran's Lightweight resume.

maybe

[OumaFan]

Hagler fought a bit of a strange fight against Duran but yeah still that was a very good performance by him