Can anyone argue with my logic here?

[Taeth]

THe point people are making is that Pacquiao is ranked higher p4p than COtto or MOsley, thus he should still be at an advantage or competitive with them at their own weightclass. If he wants the glory in beating them, then it should be done at their weight. If he fights them at a catch weight it is still impressive, but the arguement that they also had size on their side isn't as profound as if he faced them at their natural weight. I think Pacquiao shoudl still get a ton of credit if he beat Cotto at 146 or Mosley at 144-145, but not even close to what he would if he beat them at 147 even if they aren't better at 147 than they would be at 144-146.

[holmcall]

THe point people are making is that Pacquiao is ranked higher p4p than COtto or MOsley, thus he should still be at an advantage or competitive with them at their own weightclass. If he wants the glory in beating them, then it should be done at their weight. If he fights them at a catch weight it is still impressive, but the arguement that they also had size on their side isn't as profound as if he faced them at their natural weight. I think Pacquiao shoudl still get a ton of credit if he beat Cotto at 146 or Mosley at 144-145, but not even close to what he would if he beat them at 147 even if they aren't better at 147 than they would be at 144-146.

I agree!

[Bilbo's Mom]

THe point people are making is that Pacquiao is ranked higher p4p than COtto or MOsley, thus he should still be at an advantage or competitive with them at their own weightclass. If he wants the glory in beating them, then it should be done at their weight. If he fights them at a catch weight it is still impressive, but the arguement that they also had size on their side isn't as profound as if he faced them at their natural weight. I think Pacquiao shoudl still get a ton of credit if he beat Cotto at 146 or Mosley at 144-145, but not even close to what he would if he beat them at 147 even if they aren't better at 147 than they would be at 144-146.

So why not fight Kelly Pavlik then? Surely Manny is better than him p4p too?

Manny is a little guy, two years ago nobody on here, not a single one of you would have thought he could beat Ricky Hatton at 140 lbs, he was just a superfeatherweight.

If Juan Manuel Marquez and Manny were to rematch now would you insist that this fight took place at 147 lbs and nothing less because otherwise a Marquez win would be meaningless, Manny being too drained after coming down from welterweight?

How do you explain the strange phenomenan that is Shane Mosely. He moved DOWN an entire weight class from 154 lbs in his thirties and now fights at 147 lbs?

How is this even possible, does not human biology insist that he be too weakened to fight competitively?

Why was there not an outcry when Miguel Cotto beat Sugar Shane by the narrowest of margins after he had dragged him down an entire division.

Surely Cotto should be derided for not being able to finish off and destroy an old past his prime fighter in his thirties who had had almost 50 fights and was moving down in weight?

You guys seem to not understand that weight catogories only exist on paper they don't have any real objective reality.

No person in the world has a set weight. Do you know for example that you are a 153 lb person, does that weight define you, is that all you can be?

Every fighter and athlete, I'm sure does have an optimum bodyweight at which they best perform but I highly doubt it's an absolute definite fixed figure to one single decimal point.

Cotto has fought the majority of career at 140 lbs. When he had conquered that class he moved up to 147 lbs. Why 147, because that is the next weight class boxing has.

I'm sure had there been another weight class at 144 and the great fighters were there he'd be fighting at 144 now.

He's not a big welterweight, not at all. He's only 5 ft 7 and rarely weighs in at the 147 limit anyway, usually being 146.5 and in his last outing only 146.

All this hullaballu about a couple of pounds as if its going to make the difference between Cotto being 100 percent and Cotto being an empty shell is absurd.

If the fight is at 147 Manny is giving up 13 lbs in natural fighting weight, with a 3 lb catchweight he's still giving up 10.

If he wins, the fact it was at 145 in no way detracts from the victory any more than you can take away from Cotto's win over Mosely, Calzaghe's win over Hopkins or Hopkins win over Tarver on the basis of weight.

[JazMerkin]

Not that I disagree with all of this, but there's a few inaccuracies. Cotto has never weighed in less than 146 at welter & usually not at that weight but at 147. He has trouble making the weight because of his out of training lifestyle, so pushing him those extra 2 or 3 lbs could be decisive. I have no problems them doing this as long as its NOT for the welterweight title. That should only be on the line if the maximum weight limit for both fighters is 147.

Otherwise I agree with it & personally I think Pacquiao can beat Cotto at 147, so he should do it there.

[AdamGB]

It is illogical captian.

[Youngblood]

Bilbo's Mom
Banned


a haha. Bilbo cracks me up so much. Bet will still be reading this thread as a visitor...

[Hulk]

It is illogical captian.

Hahaha

Bravo sir.

[blegit]

What about this logic. If Roach and Pac thought they could beat Cotto at 147 then the fight would be at 147. Seems like the fans, who cut nary a pound, are more confident that the catchweight has no bearings. But the real trainers and fighters know differently.

[blegit]

Logical Position 8 If Manny is to fight the guys at 147 lbs he will have moved up as many divisions as Roy Jones did, from flyweight to welter is equal to middleweight to heavyweight in terms of number of weight classes.

Logical Position 9 Unlike Roy Jones, Manny is intending to fight the BEST in those weight classes. He is not fighting guys who are inferior to him in everything apart from size, he is wanting to fight guys of equal talent to himself, other elite fighters

Many things wrong with this comparitive reach. Pac has not fought a welterweight as of yet let alone intending to fight the best at 'those weight classes.' He fought DLH, who is a junior middle not a welterweight, at 147 and he intends to fight Cotto at 145, that is a catchweight. RJJ never fought Ruiz at a catchweight. And just counting weight classes doesn't tell the whole story. Not to mention that you got it wrong, flyweight to welterweight is actually more weight classes than middleweight to heavyweight. It is almost twice the number of weight classess but it is about half the poundage. Ruiz is not near the level Cotto is but the size difference between Pac and Cotto is not near the size difference between Jones and Ruiz, especially considering the catchweight. At some point Pac and Cotto will weigh about the same. At no point did Ruiz and Jones even come close to being even in the same ballpark of weight. Roy fighting the best at heavyweight isn't the same as asking Pac to fight the same at welterweight. Heavyweight has no limit in size as welterweight does. If Roy and Pac were to equal feats in moving up and Roy would've been asked to have fought the very best at heavyweight, who would've been Lewis, then to equal size difference Pac would've been asked to have fought Bernard Hopkins at middleweight. In both cases the size differences are inhumane to sanction. A closer comparison for Jones and Pac to come close to equal feats Jones would have fought a guy like Holyfield at heavyweight and Pac a guy like Mosley at junior middleweight.