Is Manny Pacquiao Bad For Boxing?

[Dr. Steelhammer]

GAME. I'm not a primarily pacfan. But I don't think Sasakul, Ledwaba, Barrera, Marquez, Diaz, Hatton were weight drained when Pac took their belts away from them. I know you're a die-hard MAB fan. But your boy got owned by pac twice. Your vindictive shitt gotta stop. Give pac some credit and start living your life.

[GAME]

GAME. I'm not a primarily pacfan. But I don't think Sasakul, Ledwaba, Barrera, Marquez, Diaz, Hatton were weight drained when Pac took their belts away from them. I know you're a die-hard MAB fan. But your boy got owned by pac twice. Your vindictive shitt gotta stop. Give pac some credit and start living your life.

wow Manny beat a washed up Barrera so what . Mcbride beat Tyson but I dont hear anyone comparing Mcbride to Jesus

Youre just sore cuz one of your boys got stopped by Chris Byrd and the other got stopped by Corrie Sanders. You should be ashamed

[Dr. Steelhammer]

Lame response. A real champion pick himself up, dust himself off, and keep on keeping after any major road bump. I'm far from being sore. As a fan, I take that Chris Byrd defeat as a positive thing. Unlike you with your Barrera.

[C-Lo]

I've already accepted that some people around here just think Pacquiao is totally overrated and will never give him credit. Just remember who they are and don't take their opinions to seriously.

It helps out when you're trying to keep sane.

NOTE: This doesn't only go for Pacquiao. This forum is filled with people who refuse to give other fighters credit as well. Just the way it is.

[AdamGB]

I've already accepted that some people around here just think Pacquiao is totally overrated and will never give him credit. Just remember who they are and don't take their opinions to seriously.

It helps out when you're trying to keep sane.

NOTE: This doesn't only go for Pacquiao. This forum is filled with people who refuse to give other fighters credit as well. Just the way it is.

I fighter can be overrated by somebody without that person thinking that they have literally achieved nothing.

[ICB]

GAME. I'm not a primarily pacfan. But I don't think Sasakul, Ledwaba, Barrera, Marquez, Diaz, Hatton were weight drained when Pac took their belts away from them. I know you're a die-hard MAB fan. But your boy got owned by pac twice. Your vindictive shitt gotta stop. Give pac some credit and start living your life.

wow Manny beat a washed up Barrera so what . Mcbride beat Tyson but I dont hear anyone comparing Mcbride to Jesus

Youre just sore cuz one of your boys got stopped by Chris Byrd and the other got stopped by Corrie Sanders. You should be ashamed

Oh come on GAME you know we have got on in the past, and you know im a MAB fan but i find that to be a silly comparison. Mike Tyson had been shot for over a decade and was coming off a loss to Danny Williams.

Where as MAB was P4P number 3 and was coming off some of his finest performances, against Erik Morales 2, Kevin Kelley, Naseem Hamed, Johnny Tapia.

Now i know all about the problems MAB had prior to the fight, but that isn't Manny Pacquiao's fault is it ? he beat the fighter in front of him who was P4P number 3 and thats all that counts.

Suprisingly in there rematch i felt MAB done better, even though he was past his prime at that point so work that one out. But the point is whether i like it or not because im a massive MAB fan, the fact is Manny Pacquiao just has MAB's number. Which is nothing to be ashamed of but its true.

Just like JMM has Manny Pacquiao's number, but his punch resistance isn't as good as someone like Erik Morales or ETC. Otherwise he would of won both fights, but still i feel the 3 knockdowns in the 1st fight. Where due to JMM being caught cold and getting suprised by Manny Pacquiao's speed.

[C-Lo]

GAME. I'm not a primarily pacfan. But I don't think Sasakul, Ledwaba, Barrera, Marquez, Diaz, Hatton were weight drained when Pac took their belts away from them. I know you're a die-hard MAB fan. But your boy got owned by pac twice. Your vindictive shitt gotta stop. Give pac some credit and start living your life.

wow Manny beat a washed up Barrera so what . Mcbride beat Tyson but I dont hear anyone comparing Mcbride to Jesus

Youre just sore cuz one of your boys got stopped by Chris Byrd and the other got stopped by Corrie Sanders. You should be ashamed

Oh come on GAME you know we have got on in the past, and you know im a MAB fan but i find that to be a silly comparison. Mike Tyson had been shot for over a decade and was coming off a loss to Danny Williams.

Where as MAB was P4P number 3 and was coming off some of his finest performances, against Erik Morales 2, Kevin Kelley, Naseem Hamed, Johnny Tapia.

Now i know all about the problems MAB had prior to the fight, but that isn't Manny Pacquiao's fault is it ? he beat the fighter in front of him who was P4P number 3 and thats all that counts.

Suprisingly in there rematch i felt MAB done better, even though he was past his prime at that point so work that one out. But the point is whether i like it or not because im a massive MAB fan, the fact is Manny Pacquiao just has MAB's number. Which is nothing to be ashamed of but its true.

Just like JMM has Manny Pacquiao's number, but his punch resistance isn't as good as someone like Erik Morales or ETC. Otherwise he would of won both fights, but still i feel the 3 knockdowns in the 1st fight. Where due to JMM being caught cold and getting suprised by Manny Pacquiao's speed.

I thought MAB fought a better fight the second time around too. He landed much bigger blows but I felt he held back too much and didn't want to get into a brawl with Manny. I still had Pac winning, but a closer fight than what the scorecards read. I always thought Manny had MAB's number too. Similar to Vernon Forrest having Mosley's number.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

wow Manny beat a washed up Barrera so what . Mcbride beat Tyson but I dont hear anyone comparing Mcbride to Jesus

Youre just sore cuz one of your boys got stopped by Chris Byrd and the other got stopped by Corrie Sanders. You should be ashamed

Oh come on GAME you know we have got on in the past, and you know im a MAB fan but i find that to be a silly comparison. Mike Tyson had been shot for over a decade and was coming off a loss to Danny Williams.

Where as MAB was P4P number 3 and was coming off some of his finest performances, against Erik Morales 2, Kevin Kelley, Naseem Hamed, Johnny Tapia.

Now i know all about the problems MAB had prior to the fight, but that isn't Manny Pacquiao's fault is it ? he beat the fighter in front of him who was P4P number 3 and thats all that counts.

Suprisingly in there rematch i felt MAB done better, even though he was past his prime at that point so work that one out. But the point is whether i like it or not because im a massive MAB fan, the fact is Manny Pacquiao just has MAB's number. Which is nothing to be ashamed of but its true.

Just like JMM has Manny Pacquiao's number, but his punch resistance isn't as good as someone like Erik Morales or ETC. Otherwise he would of won both fights, but still i feel the 3 knockdowns in the 1st fight. Where due to JMM being caught cold and getting suprised by Manny Pacquiao's speed.

I thought MAB fought a better fight the second time around too. He landed much bigger blows but I felt he held back too much and didn't want to get into a brawl with Manny. I still had Pac winning, but a closer fight than what the scorecards read. I always thought Manny had MAB's number too. Similar to Vernon Forrest having Mosley's number.

It demonstrates what a number of us said at the time but plenty of people laughed at the idea, that MAB was majorly underprepared for the first fight - and common sense would dictate that with MAB being older and Pac a better boxer by their second fight it would have been an easier fight for Pac but it wasn't.
The other thing is and it goes for all fighters, they can only face the man in front of them whether they are ill, have broken bones etc etc All some people care about are facts and figures but the devil is in the detail as we all know.

[ICB]

Oh come on GAME you know we have got on in the past, and you know im a MAB fan but i find that to be a silly comparison. Mike Tyson had been shot for over a decade and was coming off a loss to Danny Williams.

Where as MAB was P4P number 3 and was coming off some of his finest performances, against Erik Morales 2, Kevin Kelley, Naseem Hamed, Johnny Tapia.

Now i know all about the problems MAB had prior to the fight, but that isn't Manny Pacquiao's fault is it ? he beat the fighter in front of him who was P4P number 3 and thats all that counts.

Suprisingly in there rematch i felt MAB done better, even though he was past his prime at that point so work that one out. But the point is whether i like it or not because im a massive MAB fan, the fact is Manny Pacquiao just has MAB's number. Which is nothing to be ashamed of but its true.

Just like JMM has Manny Pacquiao's number, but his punch resistance isn't as good as someone like Erik Morales or ETC. Otherwise he would of won both fights, but still i feel the 3 knockdowns in the 1st fight. Where due to JMM being caught cold and getting suprised by Manny Pacquiao's speed.

I thought MAB fought a better fight the second time around too. He landed much bigger blows but I felt he held back too much and didn't want to get into a brawl with Manny. I still had Pac winning, but a closer fight than what the scorecards read. I always thought Manny had MAB's number too. Similar to Vernon Forrest having Mosley's number.

It demonstrates what a number of us said at the time but plenty of people laughed at the idea, that MAB was majorly underprepared for the first fight - and common sense would dictate that with MAB being older and Pac a better boxer by their second fight it would have been an easier fight for Pac but it wasn't.
The other thing is and it goes for all fighters, they can only face the man in front of them whether they are ill, have broken bones etc etc All some people care about are facts and figures but the devil is in the detail as we all know.

Yes but that was also due to MAB, fighting overly cautious which isn't his normal style and it never has been. He can box very well, but that night he was too overly cautious. And thats why Manny Pacquiao couldn't find his rhythm.

And i think even if MAB was at his best i don't really think, it would of made a whole lot of difference. I still see a clear UD for Manny Pacquiao, although it would be more competitive obviously.

[GAME]

GAME. I'm not a primarily pacfan. But I don't think Sasakul, Ledwaba, Barrera, Marquez, Diaz, Hatton were weight drained when Pac took their belts away from them. I know you're a die-hard MAB fan. But your boy got owned by pac twice. Your vindictive shitt gotta stop. Give pac some credit and start living your life.

wow Manny beat a washed up Barrera so what . Mcbride beat Tyson but I dont hear anyone comparing Mcbride to Jesus

Youre just sore cuz one of your boys got stopped by Chris Byrd and the other got stopped by Corrie Sanders. You should be ashamed

Oh come on GAME you know we have got on in the past, and you know im a MAB fan but i find that to be a silly comparison. Mike Tyson had been shot for over a decade and was coming off a loss to Danny Williams.

Where as MAB was P4P number 3 and was coming off some of his finest performances, against Erik Morales 2, Kevin Kelley, Naseem Hamed, Johnny Tapia.

Now i know all about the problems MAB had prior to the fight, but that isn't Manny Pacquiao's fault is it ? he beat the fighter in front of him who was P4P number 3 and thats all that counts.

Suprisingly in there rematch i felt MAB done better, even though he was past his prime at that point so work that one out. But the point is whether i like it or not because im a massive MAB fan, the fact is Manny Pacquiao just has MAB's number. Which is nothing to be ashamed of but its true.

Just like JMM has Manny Pacquiao's number, but his punch resistance isn't as good as someone like Erik Morales or ETC. Otherwise he would of won both fights, but still i feel the 3 knockdowns in the 1st fight. Where due to JMM being caught cold and getting suprised by Manny Pacquiao's speed.

Yeah but Barrera had his debut in 1989 so what do you expect. Just cuz Manny beat Barrera doesnt mean that would always be the case. If a prime Barrera fought the Pac who fought Torrencampo and Singursat we'd all be saying that Barrera had Pacs number

Its all about stages of career. Pac got Mab at the right time. I also felt he got Oscar at the right time.

Im not saying Singursat has Mannys number. Im saying he got Pac at the right time just as Manny got Barrera at the right time.

[The Congressman]

You know. You can always tell an anti-pac being 'owned' when he brings up irelevant shyt up, like bringing up what happened 10+ years ago to a current discussion. "Singurat, Torrecampo blah blah blah this and that" Lol! You can make your case out of it, but that does'nt take away the fact that Pac is a 6 division champ and now an ATG.

[ICB]

wow Manny beat a washed up Barrera so what . Mcbride beat Tyson but I dont hear anyone comparing Mcbride to Jesus

Youre just sore cuz one of your boys got stopped by Chris Byrd and the other got stopped by Corrie Sanders. You should be ashamed

Oh come on GAME you know we have got on in the past, and you know im a MAB fan but i find that to be a silly comparison. Mike Tyson had been shot for over a decade and was coming off a loss to Danny Williams.

Where as MAB was P4P number 3 and was coming off some of his finest performances, against Erik Morales 2, Kevin Kelley, Naseem Hamed, Johnny Tapia.

Now i know all about the problems MAB had prior to the fight, but that isn't Manny Pacquiao's fault is it ? he beat the fighter in front of him who was P4P number 3 and thats all that counts.

Suprisingly in there rematch i felt MAB done better, even though he was past his prime at that point so work that one out. But the point is whether i like it or not because im a massive MAB fan, the fact is Manny Pacquiao just has MAB's number. Which is nothing to be ashamed of but its true.

Just like JMM has Manny Pacquiao's number, but his punch resistance isn't as good as someone like Erik Morales or ETC. Otherwise he would of won both fights, but still i feel the 3 knockdowns in the 1st fight. Where due to JMM being caught cold and getting suprised by Manny Pacquiao's speed.

Yeah but Barrera had his debut in 1989 so what do you expect. Just cuz Manny beat Barrera doesnt mean that would always be the case. If a prime Barrera fought the Pac who fought Torrencampo and Singursat we'd all be saying that Barrera had Pacs number

Its all about stages of career. Pac got Mab at the right time. I also felt he got Oscar at the right time.

Im not saying Singursat has Mannys number. Im saying he got Pac at the right time just as Manny got Barrera at the right time.

But thats totally different GAME, Manny Pacquiao wasn't anywhere close to what he is now and he was still very raw and young plus that was 10 years ago. And we all know that he was badly weight-drained thats why he lost his title on the scales.

Thats totally different to MAB who was in his peak, because he became a better boxer after losing to Junior Jones x2. And he was coming off the best wins of his career against Johnny Tapia, Naseem Hamed, Erik Morales 2, Kevin Kelley, ETC.

And he was P4P number 3, yes he was having problems prior to the fight, but you still can't say MAB wasn't in his peak because he was.

And you say he made his pro debut in 1989, but what does that prove ? he was 15 when he made his pro debut. And and about 28 of his fights were against mediocre opponents, because he was a boy fighting men. He was only 29 in the Manny Pacquiao fight, and he was in his peak coming off his best performances of his career.

Im a big MAB fan but sometimes you just have to be honest, Manny Pacquiao had MAB's number end of. I agree that the 2nd fight doesn't mean that much, but the 1st fight clearly does. That was a great win for Manny Pacquiao, and i was sad when i see it.

But facts are facts GAME Manny Pacquiao has got MAB's number, but thats nothing to be ashamed of. Because all great fighters meet a certain style they can't handle, and Manny Pacquiao is a great fighter himself.

[:::PSL:::]

Oh come on GAME you know we have got on in the past, and you know im a MAB fan but i find that to be a silly comparison. Mike Tyson had been shot for over a decade and was coming off a loss to Danny Williams.

Where as MAB was P4P number 3 and was coming off some of his finest performances, against Erik Morales 2, Kevin Kelley, Naseem Hamed, Johnny Tapia.

Now i know all about the problems MAB had prior to the fight, but that isn't Manny Pacquiao's fault is it ? he beat the fighter in front of him who was P4P number 3 and thats all that counts.

Suprisingly in there rematch i felt MAB done better, even though he was past his prime at that point so work that one out. But the point is whether i like it or not because im a massive MAB fan, the fact is Manny Pacquiao just has MAB's number. Which is nothing to be ashamed of but its true.

Just like JMM has Manny Pacquiao's number, but his punch resistance isn't as good as someone like Erik Morales or ETC. Otherwise he would of won both fights, but still i feel the 3 knockdowns in the 1st fight. Where due to JMM being caught cold and getting suprised by Manny Pacquiao's speed.

Yeah but Barrera had his debut in 1989 so what do you expect. Just cuz Manny beat Barrera doesnt mean that would always be the case. If a prime Barrera fought the Pac who fought Torrencampo and Singursat we'd all be saying that Barrera had Pacs number

Its all about stages of career. Pac got Mab at the right time. I also felt he got Oscar at the right time.

Im not saying Singursat has Mannys number. Im saying he got Pac at the right time just as Manny got Barrera at the right time.

But thats totally different GAME, Manny Pacquiao wasn't anywhere close to what he is now and he was still very raw and young plus that was 10 years ago. And we all know that he was badly weight-drained thats why he lost his title on the scales.

Thats totally different to MAB who was in his peak, because he became a better boxer after losing to Junior Jones x2. And he was coming off the best wins of his career against Johnny Tapia, Naseem Hamed, Erik Morales 2, Kevin Kelley, ETC.

And he was P4P number 3, yes he was having problems prior to the fight, but you still can't say MAB wasn't in his peak because he was.

And you say he made his pro debut in 1989, but what does that prove ? he was 15 when he made his pro debut. And and about 28 of his fights were against mediocre opponents, because he was a boy fighting men. He was only 29 in the Manny Pacquiao fight, and he was in his peak coming off his best performances of his career.

Im a big MAB fan but sometimes you just have to be honest, Manny Pacquiao had MAB's number end of. I agree that the 2nd fight doesn't mean that much, but the 1st fight clearly does. That was a great win for Manny Pacquiao, and i was sad when i see it.

But facts are facts GAME Manny Pacquiao has got MAB's number, but thats nothing to be ashamed of. Because all great fighters meet a certain style they can't handle, and Manny Pacquiao is a great fighter himself.

Exactomundo.

[GAME]

Oh come on GAME you know we have got on in the past, and you know im a MAB fan but i find that to be a silly comparison. Mike Tyson had been shot for over a decade and was coming off a loss to Danny Williams.

Where as MAB was P4P number 3 and was coming off some of his finest performances, against Erik Morales 2, Kevin Kelley, Naseem Hamed, Johnny Tapia.

Now i know all about the problems MAB had prior to the fight, but that isn't Manny Pacquiao's fault is it ? he beat the fighter in front of him who was P4P number 3 and thats all that counts.

Suprisingly in there rematch i felt MAB done better, even though he was past his prime at that point so work that one out. But the point is whether i like it or not because im a massive MAB fan, the fact is Manny Pacquiao just has MAB's number. Which is nothing to be ashamed of but its true.

Just like JMM has Manny Pacquiao's number, but his punch resistance isn't as good as someone like Erik Morales or ETC. Otherwise he would of won both fights, but still i feel the 3 knockdowns in the 1st fight. Where due to JMM being caught cold and getting suprised by Manny Pacquiao's speed.

Yeah but Barrera had his debut in 1989 so what do you expect. Just cuz Manny beat Barrera doesnt mean that would always be the case. If a prime Barrera fought the Pac who fought Torrencampo and Singursat we'd all be saying that Barrera had Pacs number

Its all about stages of career. Pac got Mab at the right time. I also felt he got Oscar at the right time.

Im not saying Singursat has Mannys number. Im saying he got Pac at the right time just as Manny got Barrera at the right time.

But thats totally different GAME, Manny Pacquiao wasn't anywhere close to what he is now and he was still very raw and young plus that was 10 years ago. And we all know that he was badly weight-drained thats why he lost his title on the scales.

Thats totally different to MAB who was in his peak, because he became a better boxer after losing to Junior Jones x2. And he was coming off the best wins of his career against Johnny Tapia, Naseem Hamed, Erik Morales 2, Kevin Kelley, ETC.

And he was P4P number 3, yes he was having problems prior to the fight, but you still can't say MAB wasn't in his peak because he was.

And you say he made his pro debut in 1989, but what does that prove ? he was 15 when he made his pro debut. And and about 28 of his fights were against mediocre opponents, because he was a boy fighting men. He was only 29 in the Manny Pacquiao fight, and he was in his peak coming off his best performances of his career.

Im a big MAB fan but sometimes you just have to be honest, Manny Pacquiao had MAB's number end of. I agree that the 2nd fight doesn't mean that much, but the 1st fight clearly does. That was a great win for Manny Pacquiao, and i was sad when i see it.

But facts are facts GAME Manny Pacquiao has got MAB's number, but thats nothing to be ashamed of. Because all great fighters meet a certain style they can't handle, and Manny Pacquiao is a great fighter himself.

Thats your opinion and you can belive what you like but you are very quick to make excuses for Pacs losses. Dont you think it had anything to do with him losing to the better man that night?

I happen to believe boxing is all about stages of career and a fighter may lose to a lesser fighter just because he isnt at his best anymore. There are several examples of this

I do not think that Singursat is better than Pac but he got him at the right time

I do not think Berbick is better than Ali but he got him at the right time

I do not think Rahman is better than Lewis but he got him at the right time

I do not think Willy Wise is better than Chavez but he got him at the right time

and

I do not think Manny is better than Barrera or Oscar. He just got them at the right time.

Thats boxing.

[ICB]

Yeah but Barrera had his debut in 1989 so what do you expect. Just cuz Manny beat Barrera doesnt mean that would always be the case. If a prime Barrera fought the Pac who fought Torrencampo and Singursat we'd all be saying that Barrera had Pacs number

Its all about stages of career. Pac got Mab at the right time. I also felt he got Oscar at the right time.

Im not saying Singursat has Mannys number. Im saying he got Pac at the right time just as Manny got Barrera at the right time.

But thats totally different GAME, Manny Pacquiao wasn't anywhere close to what he is now and he was still very raw and young plus that was 10 years ago. And we all know that he was badly weight-drained thats why he lost his title on the scales.

Thats totally different to MAB who was in his peak, because he became a better boxer after losing to Junior Jones x2. And he was coming off the best wins of his career against Johnny Tapia, Naseem Hamed, Erik Morales 2, Kevin Kelley, ETC.

And he was P4P number 3, yes he was having problems prior to the fight, but you still can't say MAB wasn't in his peak because he was.

And you say he made his pro debut in 1989, but what does that prove ? he was 15 when he made his pro debut. And and about 28 of his fights were against mediocre opponents, because he was a boy fighting men. He was only 29 in the Manny Pacquiao fight, and he was in his peak coming off his best performances of his career.

Im a big MAB fan but sometimes you just have to be honest, Manny Pacquiao had MAB's number end of. I agree that the 2nd fight doesn't mean that much, but the 1st fight clearly does. That was a great win for Manny Pacquiao, and i was sad when i see it.

But facts are facts GAME Manny Pacquiao has got MAB's number, but thats nothing to be ashamed of. Because all great fighters meet a certain style they can't handle, and Manny Pacquiao is a great fighter himself.

Thats your opinion and you can belive what you like but you are very quick to make excuses for Pacs losses. Dont you think it had anything to do with him losing to the better man that night?

I happen to believe boxing is all about stages of career and a fighter may lose to a lesser fighter just because he isnt at his best anymore. There are several examples of this

I do not think that Singursat is better than Pac but he got him at the right time

I do not think Berbick is better than Ali but he got him at the right time

I do not think Rahman is better than Lewis but he got him at the right time

I do not think Willy Wise is better than Chavez but he got him at the right time

and

I do not think Manny is better than Barrera or Oscar. He just got them at the right time.

Thats boxing.

Those examples you have given are totally different to MAB vs Manny Pacquiao, Muhammad Ali had been shot for years. And was suffering from damage to the brain, and had just took a horrible beating off Larry Holmes.

I don't really think Hasim Rahman got Lennox Lewis at the right time, it was more due to Lennox Lewis taking Hasim Rahman lightly. And Lennox Lewis got caught by a lucky punch and if they fought 100 times, they would never happen again. And again i fail to see the comparison here.

That was JCC's 108th fight of course he will lose to bums like that, being 37 and having so many wars. But he did beat him in the rematch, and again this has nothing to do with our discussion.

And i've already explained Manny Pacquiao was still raw, and he was weight drained which is why he lost his title on the scales. That was 10 years ago, totally irrelvant now.

As i've said to you in this thread GAME, MAB was P4P number 3 and was coming off the best performances of his career. And he was at his peak, those examples you gave me there, were fighters that were clearly shot.

Another example was a fighter being seriously weight drained, and still young and raw and was nowhere near at his peak. And the last example was of a fighter taking another fighter too lightly.

I doubt MAB would of taken Manny Pacquiao too lightly, infact has MAB ever taken any opponent lightly ? and again i fail to see how any of those comparison's you put up there are comparable to MAB vs Manny Pacquiao.

Yes MAB did have some troubles outside the ring, but because the fight was so one sided. I really doubt it would of mattered that much anyway. Manny Pacquiao's just too fast for MAB, just like Junior Jones was.

Manny Pacquiao has MAB's number and that is a fact, im a massive MAB fan so don't think im a Manny Pacquiao fan because im not, i do respect the guy but im not a fan. But you just have to admit it but its nothing to be ashamed of, because Manny Pacquiao is an excellent fighter.