Regarding weight loss, straight from the horses mouth

[Kev]

Ok Bilbo but lets face it weight classes change ever few pounds in lower weight lets see how much has pac moved up like 30 pounds right. While that is good both Jones and Holyfeild have moved up way more. Jones fought at LM comes all the way up to heavyweight and fights Ruiz who was weighing in 30 more pounds then him and 80 pounds more then were he started at that to me is impressive regardless of the talent he had. As for Holyfeild he started at 175 and fought men that were 255 yet again a 80 pound differents and when they came in ring they were 20 to 30 pounds more then he would and he still pull off wins that to me more impressive. Pac has never been out weighed in a fight like Jones or Holyfeild have and by such huge amounts as well i would say.

Well if you believe all that all I can say is that you don't understand either boxing very well or basic human body mechanics.

There is a certain critical mass in boxing beyond which weight alone doesn't contribute as much because it comes at the expense of something else, usually speed and mobility.

A 147 lb, even a 168 lb man can be frighteningly fast and athletic. When you get to heavyweight however pure weight alone isn't an advantage, and in fact can even be a disadvantage.

If it were a wrestling contest where an opponent could make good use of that extra weight it would matter but above say 215 lbs, in a boxing sense, weight and size comes at the expense of size and speed.

Look at the animal kingdom, Lions and tigers (and in the past dinosaurs) can routinely take down and prey upon creatures much larger than themselves because their increased weight and size doesn't help them. It just makes them slow and ponderous. A lions superior mobility, it's powerful claws and body movements can see it easily bring down a wildebeast.

Leopards and cheetas also can bring down gazelles that outweigh them.

But a leopard would be hopeless against a lion because it's too small. The lion is bigger but not too big for its speed and mobility to be compromised. The fact that lions also have fearsome weapons can be an analogy also here in that it can represent talent and skill, punch power etc in boxers.

Roy Jones in moving up to fight John Ruiz was basically a leopard taking on a wildebeast. Ruiz was bigger but had literally NOTHING else in his favour whatsoever.

Manny meanwhile is moving up to face a bigger cat. It's like a cheetah vs a leopard a MUCH MUCH tougher fight.

I don't know if you're getting this but really I can't understand how little understanding some people have regarding this.

Above a certain weight, excess weight matters very little because boxing is not about bodyweight, it's about speed, power, strength, height and reach, skill, athleticism etc. Simple mass isn't a huge factor.

Manny is facing a bigger guy who will have a big advantage in natural power and strength, and is also evenly matched in skill, and not far behind in speed.

Ruiz was inferior to Roy Jones in every aspect other than size. Although a good win there is no real reason to believe Jones feat could not have been acomplished by many other fighters. I'm sure other former middleweights in Bernard Hopkins and Joe Calzaghe would be fancied to beat him, James Toney whupped his ass too.

But can you name a single other former flyweight in history who has moved up to welterweight to face the BEST man there (not a paper champ bum like Ruiz)?

No you simply cannot, and that is why its such a great feat.

Make no mistake a win for Manny over Cotto, were he to pull it off sees him join the ranks of Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard and Henry Armstrong as one of the top 10 fighters of all time.

[mnmc10]

adamGb i think your talking to a wall, pacfans/huggers are banned already. i think im the only one left here. and i NEVER mentioned that its easy to lose a pound or two. my only argument about catchweights is that pac is a small guy and only bigger guys are left for him to fight, pac is already pushing it at 140.

mosley is somewhat connected to pac thats why he is saying that its difficult for him. oscar lost all that weight cause he think he will beat pac to a pulp. and the technic he used to lose all that weight is the real cause why he got so weak. he was on the target weight weeks before the weigh in, they figured that odlh will have more time to adjust to his lower weight.

[Mr140]

Roy jones jr win maybe but Evander Holyfeilds wins over Bowie and even Foreman to me would be more impressive then Cotto win and way more impressive then a Oscar Dela Hoya win. Because those were skilled and strong fighters who had a good 20 to 30 pounds over Evander Holyfeild.

[JT Rock]

Ok Bilbo but lets face it weight classes change ever few pounds in lower weight lets see how much has pac moved up like 30 pounds right. While that is good both Jones and Holyfeild have moved up way more. Jones fought at LM comes all the way up to heavyweight and fights Ruiz who was weighing in 30 more pounds then him and 80 pounds more then were he started at that to me is impressive regardless of the talent he had. As for Holyfeild he started at 175 and fought men that were 255 yet again a 80 pound differents and when they came in ring they were 20 to 30 pounds more then he would and he still pull off wins that to me more impressive. Pac has never been out weighed in a fight like Jones or Holyfeild have and by such huge amounts as well i would say.

Well if you believe all that all I can say is that you don't understand either boxing very well or basic human body mechanics.

There is a certain critical mass in boxing beyond which weight alone doesn't contribute as much because it comes at the expense of something else, usually speed and mobility.

A 147 lb, even a 168 lb man can be frighteningly fast and athletic. When you get to heavyweight however pure weight alone isn't an advantage, and in fact can even be a disadvantage.

If it were a wrestling contest where an opponent could make good use of that extra weight it would matter but above say 215 lbs, in a boxing sense, weight and size comes at the expense of size and speed.

Look at the animal kingdom, Lions and tigers (and in the past dinosaurs) can routinely take down and prey upon creatures much larger than themselves because their increased weight and size doesn't help them. It just makes them slow and ponderous. A lions superior mobility, it's powerful claws and body movements can see it easily bring down a wildebeast.

Leopards and cheetas also can bring down gazelles that outweigh them.

But a leopard would be hopeless against a lion because it's too small. The lion is bigger but not too big for its speed and mobility to be compromised. The fact that lions also have fearsome weapons can be an analogy also here in that it can represent talent and skill, punch power etc in boxers.

Roy Jones in moving up to fight John Ruiz was basically a leopard taking on a wildebeast. Ruiz was bigger but had literally NOTHING else in his favour whatsoever.

Manny meanwhile is moving up to face a bigger cat. It's like a cheetah vs a leopard a MUCH MUCH tougher fight.

I don't know if you're getting this but really I can't understand how little understanding some people have regarding this.

Above a certain weight, excess weight matters very little because boxing is not about bodyweight, it's about speed, power, strength, height and reach, skill, athleticism etc. Simple mass isn't a huge factor.

Manny is facing a bigger guy who will have a big advantage in natural power and strength, and is also evenly matched in skill, and not far behind in speed.

Ruiz was inferior to Roy Jones in every aspect other than size. Although a good win there is no real reason to believe Jones feat could not have been acomplished by many other fighters. I'm sure other former middleweights in Bernard Hopkins and Joe Calzaghe would be fancied to beat him, James Toney whupped his ass too.

But can you name a single other former flyweight in history who has moved up to welterweight to face the BEST man there (not a paper champ bum like Ruiz)?

No you simply cannot, and that is why its such a great feat.

Make no mistake a win for Manny over Cotto, were he to pull it off sees him join the ranks of Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard and Henry Armstrong as one of the top 10 fighters of all time.

I answered this along with a bunch of other posters but you chose to ignore and stay on your soap box even though it was ridiculous...You just went on in an exhaustive manner about dinosaurs and predators of the Serengeti.

You can not deny the fact that at 16 a boy is not a full grown mature man, Pac started boxing at that age weighing in at 106lbs. in 16 years a worldclass athlete with all the money to hire strength and conditioning coaches along with nutritionists coupled with the fact Pac has an athletic frame. 30+ pounds of maturation and training in 16 years is not out of the ordinary. NO WAY AROUND IT

As far as the whole higher the weight slower you are, I suggest you watch David Haye or Wlad Klit who have frightening handspeed and power, or watch an NFL football game and see a 6'4 245lb linebacker chase down a 5'11 200lb running back and run him over like a locomotive

[JazMerkin]

One thing I'm sick of hearing Bilbo is that Pac has gone through 8 divisions beating the best in each division, it's just not true, he's had his share of wildebeest as well.

Flyweight - Sasakul (He was the best in the division)

Super-Bantamweight - Ledwaba (A good fighter, but not the best, that was widely considered to be either Oscar Larios or Agapito Sanchez at that time)

Featherweight - Barrera & JMM (No complaints here, they were the best)

Super-Featherweight - Morales & JMM (Lost to EM, when he was the best, than went after him despite Raheem taking the belt. No shame in that, that's where the money was. Then finally fought JMM to decide the best SFW so no complaints here)

Lightweight - David Diaz (Anyone who tries to argue that Diaz was a credible champion is an idiot. He was at least the equivalent of John Ruiz in what was possibly the best division in the sport at that time, & with the likes of Campbell, Juan Diaz & Casamayor available, he went for a guy weaker than a load of guys challenging for the belt)

Light-Welterweight - Ricky Hatton (The best, much respect to Pac for the manner of this as well)

Welterweight - Assuming it's Cotto (NO, not the best in most people's eyes. Mosley beat the man who beat Cotto, hence becoming the best in the division, the general impression has been that Team Pac want no part of Mosley. Cotto on the other hand doesn't look like the fighter he once was.)

Btw, that's 7 divisions. Just because he fought in another for a few fights when he was a malnourished 16 year old doesn't mean he breezed through it.

I have the utmost respect for Pac & what he's accomplished & I think that list above is still unbelievably impressive. Also as for your point about speed, no way is Cotto comparable in speed, the only guy around that weight class who is, is Mayweather.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Its like with Holyfield.

I didn't know he recaptured the Heavyweight Crown a record 17 times?

[bcollins]

There are really strong arguments being made for both sides of this issue. One thing I haven't seen explicitly mentioned is the perspective from which catchweights are analyzed. These seem to be some of the major themes in the debate.

From the point of view that boxing is a sport: catchweights can taint the purity of a contest and also have negative repercussions on the weight class system as a whole.

From the point of view that boxing is an entertainment industry: catchweights provide a means for marquee fighters to compete in superbouts that catch the public eye.

Considering that boxing has taken a bit of a hit in mainstream coverage, these "superbouts" could revitalize the sport's popularity. So it's a question of maintaining the purity of the sport versus making megafights under less than perfect conditions.

Tough call...