Heavyweight Roy Jones Vs Heavyweight James Toney

[Kev]

James Toney was weight drained when he fought RJJ, im a big fan of both fighters. But lets be frank here that was hardly the James Toney, that beat Michael Nunn, Doug DeWitt, Iran Barkley, ETC.

I agree that James Toney would struggle with RJJ's movement, especially at Heavyweight. But you never know, we never really see RJJ at Heavyweight. And beating John Ruiz tells me nothing, because James Toney was able to beat John Ruiz. Just as good even knocking him down.

James Toney had some impressive performances at Heavyweight, against Rydell Booker, Evander Holyfield, Dominick Guinn. And even though the smart moneys on RJJ winning a UD, it wouldn't suprise me if the James Toney that fought Evander Holyfield. Clocked RJJ and put his lights out, James Toney could still hit fairly good at Heavyweight.

Well if we are gonna put the James Toney against Holyfield we can put the Roy Jones that fought Ruiz in there, now at this time Roy was basically untouchable and unstoppable, only when he moved down in weight back to Light Heavy was he knocked out and caught because of what it did to his body so lets throw all that out the window for this instance since if they'd fought it'd never happened. Because if we want to bring up Roy's faults when he went down to Light Heavyweight then we could also include that James Toney struggled with Fres Oquendo.

Roy Jones would have beaten James again, James still had trouble with speed and at Heavyweight fought no one with Roy's kind of speed and wouldn't have made the same mistakes people like Ruiz made against him like leading in with your hands down and chin out.

Roy would have beaten James again. Because let's be honest here, James Toney may have been drained against Jones in their fight but it doesn't take away the fact that Roy was still that much faster and could time him at will. Regardless of what was going on with James weight even healthy on that night there was really nothing he would have done to Jones. A perfectlly fine James Toney fought Montell Griffin afterwards and lost twice. he wasn't beating Jones even if he wasn't as drained.

I don't really know what your on about, i never ever brought up RJJ losing at Light Heavyweight. And i never brought up any of RJJ's faults. All i said was that beating John Ruiz doesn't really tell me, how good he was at Heavyweight, because John Ruiz is pretty much a paper champion.

And James Toney beat him pretty much the same, and arguably beat him even better because he managed to knock him down. And bringing James Toney struggling against Fres Oquendo is laughable, he was what 40 ? he was way overweight. And after 81 fights its clear as day he is shot to pieces.

Thats totally different to RJJ losing to Antonio Tarver, in which i don't think RJJ was that bad against Antonio Tarver. In there 2nd fight he looked fine its just he was caught by a lucky punch, but if your honestly trying to make a comparison to Antonio Tarver vs RJJ 2. Too James Toney vs Fres Oquendo then your seriously reaching.

And i never said you couldn't put the RJJ that fought John Ruiz, against the James Toney that fought Evander Holyfield. Your putting words into my mouth i never said anything about RJJ's faults. Or him getting KO'ed at Light Heavyweight, i've only mentioned it now because you seem to think i did, in my other post when i clearly didn't.

I don't think its out of the question that James Toney, could beat RJJ at Heavyweight. RJJ was never technically a Heavyweight weight wise, and if James Toney landed flush on RJJ. Which he is clearly skilled enough to do, he could easily turn out RJJ's lights.

And lastly James Toney was clearly nowhere near, his best against RJJ. And i think everybody agrees that a perfectly healthy James Toney, would of gave RJJ all he could handle. And have you actually seen the 2nd Montel Grffin fight ? James Toney was clearly robbed in that fight and all the commentators were shocked when the decision was announced. That was a clear 3 or 4 point win for James Toney.

Toney never knocked Ruiz down. He stood on his foot and it was incorrectly ruled a knockdown. Still a great performance though although lets not forget he was juiced and so the win was overturned,

Toney is/was a great fighter with some slick skills but he was a perrenial underachiever in many ways and the unbeaten Jones Jr who beat Ruiz wouldn't have let Toney have his way in a fight at any weight imo.

I'd go with Roy Jones to outbox him over 12 rounds,

[Spicoli]

I go with Toney.The weights for their 'Heavyweight' experience were much different.Would have been a cruiser fight or yet another catch weight affair really.Toney in tip top from,the Washington fight,I think would keep Jones very honest and rough him up.....Jones had 1 fight at hvy,and we all know that one heavyweight fight does not make a heavyweight,especially these days .Came against a guy Toney whipped as well.Toney much thicker up there.

[ICB]

Well if we are gonna put the James Toney against Holyfield we can put the Roy Jones that fought Ruiz in there, now at this time Roy was basically untouchable and unstoppable, only when he moved down in weight back to Light Heavy was he knocked out and caught because of what it did to his body so lets throw all that out the window for this instance since if they'd fought it'd never happened. Because if we want to bring up Roy's faults when he went down to Light Heavyweight then we could also include that James Toney struggled with Fres Oquendo.

Roy Jones would have beaten James again, James still had trouble with speed and at Heavyweight fought no one with Roy's kind of speed and wouldn't have made the same mistakes people like Ruiz made against him like leading in with your hands down and chin out.

Roy would have beaten James again. Because let's be honest here, James Toney may have been drained against Jones in their fight but it doesn't take away the fact that Roy was still that much faster and could time him at will. Regardless of what was going on with James weight even healthy on that night there was really nothing he would have done to Jones. A perfectlly fine James Toney fought Montell Griffin afterwards and lost twice. he wasn't beating Jones even if he wasn't as drained.

I don't really know what your on about, i never ever brought up RJJ losing at Light Heavyweight. And i never brought up any of RJJ's faults. All i said was that beating John Ruiz doesn't really tell me, how good he was at Heavyweight, because John Ruiz is pretty much a paper champion.

And James Toney beat him pretty much the same, and arguably beat him even better because he managed to knock him down. And bringing James Toney struggling against Fres Oquendo is laughable, he was what 40 ? he was way overweight. And after 81 fights its clear as day he is shot to pieces.

Thats totally different to RJJ losing to Antonio Tarver, in which i don't think RJJ was that bad against Antonio Tarver. In there 2nd fight he looked fine its just he was caught by a lucky punch, but if your honestly trying to make a comparison to Antonio Tarver vs RJJ 2. Too James Toney vs Fres Oquendo then your seriously reaching.

And i never said you couldn't put the RJJ that fought John Ruiz, against the James Toney that fought Evander Holyfield. Your putting words into my mouth i never said anything about RJJ's faults. Or him getting KO'ed at Light Heavyweight, i've only mentioned it now because you seem to think i did, in my other post when i clearly didn't.

I don't think its out of the question that James Toney, could beat RJJ at Heavyweight. RJJ was never technically a Heavyweight weight wise, and if James Toney landed flush on RJJ. Which he is clearly skilled enough to do, he could easily turn out RJJ's lights.

And lastly James Toney was clearly nowhere near, his best against RJJ. And i think everybody agrees that a perfectly healthy James Toney, would of gave RJJ all he could handle. And have you actually seen the 2nd Montel Grffin fight ? James Toney was clearly robbed in that fight and all the commentators were shocked when the decision was announced. That was a clear 3 or 4 point win for James Toney.

Toney never knocked Ruiz down. He stood on his foot and it was incorrectly ruled a knockdown. Still a great performance though although lets not forget he was juiced and so the win was overturned,

Toney is/was a great fighter with some slick skills but he was a perrenial underachiever in many ways and the unbeaten Jones Jr who beat Ruiz wouldn't have let Toney have his way in a fight at any weight imo.

I'd go with Roy Jones to outbox him over 12 rounds,

Well i never see the replay, but i do remember a right hand landed. But whatever balance issue or not, he still beat John Ruiz, pretty much the same as RJJ did.

And let me remind you of something, many people believe RJJ juiced against John Ruiz. Because he put on alot of weight quickly, and was ripped as hell. And theres strong evidence to prove so.

I actually don't think James Toney, was that much of an underachiever. He should of won the Heavyweight title IMO, and he had a great career at Middleweight/Super Middleweight. Aswell as a good career at Cruiserweight and Heavyweight.

I know what your saying that he had a few off performances, and he should of beat some fighters more clearly. But he had 82 fights you gotta except some off performances, it is a shame that he was sometimes lazy and got himself in horrible shape.

But if you actually look at his career, and look at his best wins. He isn't as much as an underachiever as you would think is. He probably could of done a bit better at Heavyweight, had he kept himself in good shape. And he could of done better against RJJ, and some other opponents. But overall i think he had a great career.