Originally Posted by
CFH
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Well this is the entirety of what I wrote;
Maybe they have Froch as favourite becuase his meeting with Taylor is the only form guide we have, none of the others having met each other before.
KO'ing the former undisputed middleweight champion of the world, a fighter who has only ever been beaten by one other man (dodgy scorecards withstanding) is probably seen as great form going in to this.
Abraham at super middleweight is an unknown, also Miranda aside he's never fought an elite opponent.
Kessler lost to Calzaghe and has been pretty inactive since. Maybe he should be favourite, but its clear only Froch has a win over a p4p guy at this point.
I think everything I said above is accurate. Nowhere above did I claim Froch would win the tournament, or that I thought he was favourite, I just aimed to answer the question why the bookies made him favourite.
And the fact is he's the favourite for two reasons, one he's the British boy, and two because he's the only guy in this tournament who has a Grade A win over an elite fighter.
You can argue semantics about whether Taylor was not p4p for the past couple years but there is no question that he has been p4p, and p4p Top 5 no less, so he's an elite fighter, and none of the other fighters, not even Kessler have an elite opponent on their resume.
Taylor was unquestionable p4p when he beat Hopkins twice and was the undisputed middleweight champ. He's still not even 30 I believe and has only ever been beaten by one before. Knocking him out is the biggest win any of these 6 have, and the fact that Froch did it is why the bookies have him favourite,
So far from being irelevent, my posting was entirely to the point
You saying he wasn't p4p when Froch beat him is what is irelevent. My point is nobody else has beaten anyone better, and in a tournament that favours knockouts, Froch's proven ability to KO elite fighters, along with his British status has seen him (quite sensibly from the bookmakers point of view) to being made the betting favourite prior to the beginning of the tournament.
Of course all odds will change as the event goes on, but right now William Hill have him favourite for a reason, him winning could cost them the most money.
What in the sweet fuck are you talking about? You're bringing up things we haven't been discussing. We were talking about Abraham/Ward - Miranda and the fact that you (erroneously) claimed that Froch has a victory over a P4P fighter (nowhere in the post I responded to did you use the word former). Instead of responding to my reply, you threw up a red herring and embarked on a tangent.
Jermaine Taylor has never been P4P top 5 to the best of my knowledge. Even if he was,
he was FAR removed from that status when he entered the ring with Froch. Still, he was comprehensively outboxing Froch before he gassed (like usual) and got stopped. He had not looked like a P4P fighter since the Wright fight (bar the first two rounds of the first Pavlik fight) and he was not a top 10 P4P fighter the night he entered the right with Froch.
The fact that Taylor used to be ranked in P4P lists means absolutely nothing in the context of Froch's victory. It was a good, exciting win over a faded, somewhat known and exposed fighter moving up in weight, nothing more or less.
Kessler's experience with Mundine and Calzaghe, and even Andrade, trumps Froch's victories over Pascal and Taylor in my opinion (though that's a debatable point). He's one of the most limited fighters in the tournament and while I think he chin, heart, workrate, and above average power will enable him to perform well, I do not think he will win.
I definitely disagree with you on this point. Most people actually argue the two finest performances of Jermain Taylors career actually came in his two ko losses.
You are the one kidding yourself if you think Jermain Taylor is no longer an elite level fighter.
True he has been found wanting in the late rounds against two of the most dangerous and punishing fighters in the sport in Froch and Pavlik but you talk about him as if he's done, just a shell of a fighter etc.
He's still in his physical prime. He has the speed and skills to win the whole tournament, even now after two devastating ko losses.
Where he comes up short is stamina and in burning up too much nervous energy in fights which catches up with him in the late rounds.
Although that certainly has been damaging to his career, and is now a known weakness that his opponents are aware of it in no way reduces his actual boxing ability, or his ability to win the first 9 rounds of a fight.
You seem to be arguing that the Taylor that is fighting now is not as good as the Taylor that was fighting a couple years or so ago. I don't think there is any evidence to back up that statement.
He;s still every bit as good as he ever has been, he's just got some serious late stage issues in the championship rounds.
NOBODY is just going to walk through Jermain Taylor, and there's a good chance he could be ahead on the scorecards at the halfway point against all of the fighters.
True, I expect the likes of Abrham and Kessler to catch up with him eventually, but not because he is done as a fighter, or just a shell as you seem to be implying.
He's still one of the best fighters in the world, even after his losses. How many fighters have more natural skill and ability than Taylor in any weight class when he's on his game? Not many.
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Re: Froch is the favourite for Super Six Tournament
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