Pacquiao and Marqez have no business fighting above 140 pounds against elite opp.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Marquez was ten pounds heavier than he should be for a fight and it showed. He was too small to get anywhere near Floyd.

Pacquiao would have met the same fate. Pacquiao shouldn't face Floyd even for the money. He beat DLH at 147 because DLH was weight-drained. A prime Mosley, Cotto, or PBF would beat Pac. Out of those, he has the best chance of beating Cotto, but Cotto should be too big for Pac too.

I understand there is more money in the higher weight classes, but fighters reach a ceiling at some point. For Pacquiao and Marquez the ceiling is 140.

Your a complete idiot! Regardless of whether DLH was weight drained or not, Pacquiao's punches rocked Oscar's entire body. Pac was just as fast as ever and his power enhanced greatly! This post is total ignorance!

i'd say your post is ignorance, especially if you think that Manny Pacquiao beat a healthy prime DLH

[Truth]

Pac & Marquez are too COMPLETELY DIFFERENT entities
One is a 36 yr old who is ending his career by looking small @ 135
The other is a 29 yr old who has physically matured and had his diet improve and has grown into a legit 140 lb fighter
The point is 147 lbs is 2 1/2 weightclasses past Juan's best and 1 past Manny's

[ElTerribleMorales]

Pac & Marquez are too COMPLETELY DIFFERENT entities
One is a 36 yr old who is ending his career by looking small @ 135
The other is a 29 yr old who has physically matured and had his diet improve and has grown into a legit 140 lb fighter
The point is 147 lbs is 2 1/2 weightclasses past Juan's best and 1 past Manny's

Pacquiao will be 31 by the end of the year, and has taken a lot more shots to the head than Marquez, and IMO will get sparked at 147 against Cotto

[brucelee]

I agree with the first post in this thread.

Going into 140 plus weight category is brave but really crazy for Pac and Marquez.

Honestly, I could hardly see Pac winning against Cotto. Considering that Pac is sort of underestimating this fight ( by having his training in the Philippines where there will be many distractions), I am more afraid for Pac now.

The PBF- MArquez fight is like a prelude to what will happen with Pac vs Cotto. Cotto will be too big for Pac just like PBF was too big for Marquez.

IMO, PBF is very skillful against Marquez but one thing that assured his victory was the inability of Marquez to truly hurt him.

[generalbulldog]

I agree with the first post in this thread.

Going into 140 plus weight category is brave but really crazy for Pac and Marquez.

Honestly, I could hardly see Pac winning against Cotto. Considering that Pac is sort of underestimating this fight ( by having his training in the Philippines where there will be many of distractions), I am more afraid for Pac now.

The PBF- MArquez fight is like a prelude to what will happen with Pac vs Cotto. Cotto will be too big for Pac just like PBF was too big for Marquez.

IMO, PBF is very skillful against Marquez but one thing that assured his victory was the inability of Marquez to truly hurt him.

So are you saying your boy is going to lose? BTW, you are right, Pac is underestimating Cotto and having his training in the Phillipines with the distractions. That's what happens when you have free loaders and hanger ons giving you bad advice. Cotto isn't shot and I don't think he will be weight drained like Oscar, and he isn't an 1 trick pony like Hatton.

Cotto by brutal ko.

[brucelee]

I agree with the first post in this thread.

Going into 140 plus weight category is brave but really crazy for Pac and Marquez.

Honestly, I could hardly see Pac winning against Cotto. Considering that Pac is sort of underestimating this fight ( by having his training in the Philippines where there will be many of distractions), I am more afraid for Pac now.

The PBF- MArquez fight is like a prelude to what will happen with Pac vs Cotto. Cotto will be too big for Pac just like PBF was too big for Marquez.

IMO, PBF is very skillful against Marquez but one thing that assured his victory was the inability of Marquez to truly hurt him.

So are you saying your boy is going to lose? BTW, you are right, Pac is underestimating Cotto and having his training in the Phillipines with the distractions. That's what happens when you have free loaders and hanger ons giving you bad advice. Cotto isn't shot and I don't think he will be weight drained like Oscar, and he isn't an 1 trick pony like Hatton.

Cotto by brutal ko.

Yeah, it's probable Pac would lose this fight. I have this feeling that he will not be prepared for the fight. With him in the Philippines, he will be going to parties, talkshow, advertisements,etc.

People would be coming over to his place and there will be no discipline there unless Roach would use an iron hand. It's rainy season in the Philippines now and Pac really won't be jogging in the rain with all the people watching him. His footwork and speed will suffer greatly in this fight. I have seen an ill-prepared Pacquaio crumble due to fatigue and I'm truly afraid for him.

IMO, Pacquaio is destined to fail in this fight unless the boxing mafia wants a Mayweather-Pac fight which would be very, very big in terms of money.

[generalbulldog]

I agree with the first post in this thread.

Going into 140 plus weight category is brave but really crazy for Pac and Marquez.

Honestly, I could hardly see Pac winning against Cotto. Considering that Pac is sort of underestimating this fight ( by having his training in the Philippines where there will be many of distractions), I am more afraid for Pac now.

The PBF- MArquez fight is like a prelude to what will happen with Pac vs Cotto. Cotto will be too big for Pac just like PBF was too big for Marquez.

IMO, PBF is very skillful against Marquez but one thing that assured his victory was the inability of Marquez to truly hurt him.

So are you saying your boy is going to lose? BTW, you are right, Pac is underestimating Cotto and having his training in the Phillipines with the distractions. That's what happens when you have free loaders and hanger ons giving you bad advice. Cotto isn't shot and I don't think he will be weight drained like Oscar, and he isn't an 1 trick pony like Hatton.

Cotto by brutal ko.

Yeah, it's probable Pac would lose this fight. I have this feeling that he will not be prepared for the fight. With him in the Philippines, he will be going to parties, talkshow, advertisements,etc.

People would be coming over to his place and there will be no discipline there unless Roach would use an iron hand. It's rainy season in the Philippines now and Pac really won't be jogging in the rain with all the people watching him. His footwork and speed will suffer greatly in this fight. I have seen an ill-prepared Pacquaio crumble due to fatigue and I'm truly afraid for him.

IMO, Pacquaio is destined to fail in this fight unless the boxing mafia wants a Mayweather-Pac fight which would be very, very big in terms of money.

I also heard Roach complaining of not getting into contact with Pac and that his hanger ons wouldn't let him get in touch with his pupil. That's the reason why I pick Cotto over Pacman, Cotto just seems hungrier at this point and more focused and with his natural size advantage. I don't know what's going on in Pacquiao's head to listen to leechers and freeloaders instead of the trainer that help got him to the top.

[Rantcatrat]

Pac & Marquez are too COMPLETELY DIFFERENT entities
One is a 36 yr old who is ending his career by looking small @ 135
The other is a 29 yr old who has physically matured and had his diet improve and has grown into a legit 140 lb fighter
The point is 147 lbs is 2 1/2 weightclasses past Juan's best and 1 past Manny's

So, we agree on Marquez, but disagree on Pacquiao. Fair. Who would Pacquiao beat out of the top fighters at 147?

[levi#1BoxingFan]

Marquez was ten pounds heavier than he should be for a fight and it showed. He was too small to get anywhere near Floyd.

Pacquiao would have met the same fate. Pacquiao shouldn't face Floyd even for the money. He beat DLH at 147 because DLH was weight-drained. A prime Mosley, Cotto, or PBF would beat Pac. Out of those, he has the best chance of beating Cotto, but Cotto should be too big for Pac too.

I understand there is more money in the higher weight classes, but fighters reach a ceiling at some point. For Pacquiao and Marquez the ceiling is 140.

Your a complete idiot! Regardless of whether DLH was weight drained or not, Pacquiao's punches rocked Oscar's entire body. Pac was just as fast as ever and his power enhanced greatly! This post is total ignorance!

i'd say your post is ignorance, especially if you think that Manny Pacquiao beat a healthy prime DLH

Hmm I dont recall ever saying Oscar was un his prime when Pacquiao beat him, what exactly are you reading may ask? If Oscar was in his prime it wouldn't matter, it would be more competitive but Manny would still win. Do yourself a favor and read the posts before responding.

[spade]

It's because Marquez lost to FPF then Pac's decision fighting above 140 has also been considered crazy move.


Let me say this straight, if Pac continues to stay at 140 and continues to beat every opponent. Then history would judge him...

He isn't that great (Pac) because he never fought above 140 with the likes of Cotto, Mosley, or PBF, Margarito.


Whereas telling Pac has no business fighting above 140

I give Pac credit for bringing the fight at above 140.



My question is


1. If he beats Cotto, what exucuse will you give for Cotto? Cotto is too dehydrated to reach weight?

2. If Pac wins, will you tell Pac to fight bigger fighters until somebody beats the shit out of him?



______

[Pavlik]

It's because Marquez lost to FPF then Pac's decision fighting above 140 has also been considered crazy move.


Let me say this straight, if Pac continues to stay at 140 and continues to beat every opponent. Then history would judge him...

He isn't that great (Pac) because he never fought above 140 with the likes of Cotto, Mosley, or PBF, Margarito.


Whereas telling Pac has no business fighting above 140

I give Pac credit for bringing the fight at above 140.



My question is


1. If he beats Cotto, what exucuse will you give for Cotto? Cotto is too dehydrated to reach weight?

2. If Pac wins, will you tell Pac to fight bigger fighters until somebody beats the shit out of him?



______

Great point Spade
Though aside from Cotto or Berto I don't really want Manny fighting these big welters just so happen there is a welter title at stake and is winnable.

[Rantcatrat]

It's because Marquez lost to FPF then Pac's decision fighting above 140 has also been considered crazy move.


Let me say this straight, if Pac continues to stay at 140 and continues to beat every opponent. Then history would judge him...

He isn't that great (Pac) because he never fought above 140 with the likes of Cotto, Mosley, or PBF, Margarito.


Whereas telling Pac has no business fighting above 140

I give Pac credit for bringing the fight at above 140.



My question is


1. If he beats Cotto, what exucuse will you give for Cotto? Cotto is too dehydrated to reach weight?

2. If Pac wins, will you tell Pac to fight bigger fighters until somebody beats the shit out of him?



______

Don't get me wrong, I give Manny and Marquez all the credit in the world for fighting the top welterweights. I just think the fights won't be competitive. Cotto v. Pacquiao may be the most competitive of the possible combinations, but I say Cotto wins. Now, either of them against the top junior welterweights or lightweights and there will be some competition. I'd love to see Valero fight Marquez at 135 or Pacquiao fight Tim Bradley at 140.

[KananKrus]

Pacquiao and Marquez…No business fighting over 140 lbs!

I am going back and forth on this issue without a firm thought for a clear and decisive choice. Is it a valid statement, or is it more an unsubstantiated bark without a bite? Unsettled is apt, if I have anything right now.

In the case of Juan Manuel Marquez, as storied a career as he has had, will not dispute this claim. Juan has no business fighting above the junior welterweight limit of 140lbs. I do not even see him being successful any longer at 135, much more 140! This is an open argument tho', and by no means at all a fact! For sure however, he will still dominate with ease the 130 and below weight classes. With the vast experience and without any concessions giving in from a size disparity, he can very well hide his rapidly advancing maturity. His age factor is almost on the negative side for ring attributes as for competitive fighters go.

However, in the case of Manny Pacquiao it is vastly different, although there still is a bit of cloud in his eligibility to fight in the upwards of the mentioned weight limits, Manny has had a teeny-weeny bit of success fighting at it! Fighting at 145lbs once, the result now seemingly tainted, his opponent was tagged unsuitable by the "boxing experts" for being “weight-drained” and miserably dehydrated during the fight.

The not so distant fight mentioned was fought only last December of '08, and it was against no less that Oscar “the golden boy” de la Hoya, a future hall of famer who had unwittingly ill-trained against the renowned fighter from Gen San in the Philippines. Oscar was so outclassed in that fight that he was made to tap out in surrender, quitting on his stool, to extricate him from furthering serious harm in after only 8 rounds of pure hell at the hands of the “ineligible” little man, pound for pound king, Manny Pacquiao!

This fight did not establish any legitimacy to the "PacMan's ascendancy to the higher weight classes. He is, as the boxing experts proclaim, a little man. A little while back, Emmanuel Steward, a color commentator for HBO, and a boxing trainer hall of famer (?), even acquiesced to the very same notion, that Pac was fighting at a decidedly size disadvantage against Erik Morales in their second fight! He believed that Pacquiao's best weight-class is in the featherweight!

So there you go, back and forth is where I will be at the moment. Is Pacquiao really ineligible to fight at the welterweight level?

We will soon find out in no time. His next fight is against a legitimate welterweight in a beast of a fighter in Miguel Cotto of Caguas, Puerto Rico. Unbeaten in 38 fights except for that Margarito hand-wrap controversy, Miguel will put to test this quandary.

If only to clear any of this, Manny should make the fight in November 14th an action-packed one. With blood, skills and spilt guts! No more of the silly dominance of weight-drained over the hill fighters. They can retaliate more aggressively, and inflict damage in the media a lot more than when pitted atop the ring, so no more of that!

As an aside, in preparation for the Cotto fight, coach Roach has tapped the services of Shawn Porter, a light middleweight, to be one of four sparmates to Pacquiao. This guy bangs with the likes of Daniel Jacobs… and has even fought in the 167lbs during his 250 or so, amateur career. This monster of a sparmate a very promisiing jr middleweight, Shawn Porter, with a professional record of 10-0, with 8 KO’s can slaughter Pacquiao!

Manny Pacquiao, has no business fighting over the 140lbs?

If the contention of this thread holds true, good grief!

By the way... on the sparmates, anyone knows who the other three are ?

[sumkalambay]

Pacquiao does. he's gonna whoop Cotto.