Nobel Prize goes to Obama...

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Withdrawl of care already happens in the UK.

Only for people on life support with no realistic chance of recovery or consciousness again. Slightly different to what Bilbo is alleging Obama will do.

Regarding abortion I guess it depends on what you consider life. Does life begin at conception or does life only begin at birth?

The generally held opinion these days it seems is that life only begins at birth.

Fo rme though life begins as soon as a feutus is created. Once it's in there, growing, living, to me it IS a human being. It's not going to exist at some point in the future, it's not only existing in some abstract alternative universe or so kind of third dimension, it exists, and is alive, right here and right now in our universe.

It's a human being, alive inside another human being. To me any discussion of abortion is the mother or parents, government etc basically saying we are going to kill this person because of......

It's just not justafiable in my world view at all, its infanticide and I don't see it as personal choice whatsoever.

If a person killed a baby born a few week premature they would be charged with murder and locked up.

But bizarelly if that same baby was still in the womb (still the same age, still the same person) it can be scraped out of the womens uterus and the only people in the wrong would be those who tried to put guilt on those involved. To me that's just baffling and completely illogical.

To be honest the wishes of the parents or the mother to me don't come into it at all. If a woman was struggling to care for her elderly parent and her life was miserable as a result she would (at least in theory at the present time) be committing murder if she decided to kill her.

You're giving a bunch of cells more rights than a women yet wanting to say they're all equal. BS Bilbo - as usual.


Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

[Kev]

Only for people on life support with no realistic chance of recovery or consciousness again. Slightly different to what Bilbo is alleging Obama will do.

Regarding abortion I guess it depends on what you consider life. Does life begin at conception or does life only begin at birth?

The generally held opinion these days it seems is that life only begins at birth.

Fo rme though life begins as soon as a feutus is created. Once it's in there, growing, living, to me it IS a human being. It's not going to exist at some point in the future, it's not only existing in some abstract alternative universe or so kind of third dimension, it exists, and is alive, right here and right now in our universe.

It's a human being, alive inside another human being. To me any discussion of abortion is the mother or parents, government etc basically saying we are going to kill this person because of......

It's just not justafiable in my world view at all, its infanticide and I don't see it as personal choice whatsoever.

If a person killed a baby born a few week premature they would be charged with murder and locked up.

But bizarelly if that same baby was still in the womb (still the same age, still the same person) it can be scraped out of the womens uterus and the only people in the wrong would be those who tried to put guilt on those involved. To me that's just baffling and completely illogical.

To be honest the wishes of the parents or the mother to me don't come into it at all. If a woman was struggling to care for her elderly parent and her life was miserable as a result she would (at least in theory at the present time) be committing murder if she decided to kill her.

You're giving a bunch of cells more rights than a women yet wanting to say they're all equal. BS Bilbo - as usual.


Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Where we disagree is that I don't regard a developing child as a bunch of cells.

It's not about giving a bunch of cells more rights but rather protecting the rights of the unborn. Once the featus is developing its a human being right now imo and so abortion is morally wrong.

However I don't blame the woman as much as I blame society as a whole.

And I do appreciate what you say about women being the ones who actually deal with the process of pregnancy etc whereas men don't have any real responsibility at all.

It's a tough issue but the rights of the unborn need to be protected. The argument that they are just a bunch of cells only holds any force for the first few weeks at the very most.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Regarding abortion I guess it depends on what you consider life. Does life begin at conception or does life only begin at birth?

The generally held opinion these days it seems is that life only begins at birth.

Fo rme though life begins as soon as a feutus is created. Once it's in there, growing, living, to me it IS a human being. It's not going to exist at some point in the future, it's not only existing in some abstract alternative universe or so kind of third dimension, it exists, and is alive, right here and right now in our universe.

It's a human being, alive inside another human being. To me any discussion of abortion is the mother or parents, government etc basically saying we are going to kill this person because of......

It's just not justafiable in my world view at all, its infanticide and I don't see it as personal choice whatsoever.

If a person killed a baby born a few week premature they would be charged with murder and locked up.

But bizarelly if that same baby was still in the womb (still the same age, still the same person) it can be scraped out of the womens uterus and the only people in the wrong would be those who tried to put guilt on those involved. To me that's just baffling and completely illogical.

To be honest the wishes of the parents or the mother to me don't come into it at all. If a woman was struggling to care for her elderly parent and her life was miserable as a result she would (at least in theory at the present time) be committing murder if she decided to kill her.

You're giving a bunch of cells more rights than a women yet wanting to say they're all equal. BS Bilbo - as usual.


Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Where we disagree is that I don't regard a developing child as a bunch of cells.

It's not about giving a bunch of cells more rights but rather protecting the rights of the unborn. Once the featus is developing its a human being right now imo and so abortion is morally wrong.

However I don't blame the woman as much as I blame society as a whole.

And I do appreciate what you say about women being the ones who actually deal with the process of pregnancy etc whereas men don't have any real responsibility at all.

It's a tough issue but the rights of the unborn need to be protected. The argument that they are just a bunch of cells only holds any force for the first few weeks at the very most.

Howdy, by saying a foetus can not be terminated - even if the woman wishes it - you are placing the rights of a potential human above that of a real-life walking/talking one.

[AdamGB]

You're giving a bunch of cells more rights than a women yet wanting to say they're all equal. BS Bilbo - as usual.


Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Where we disagree is that I don't regard a developing child as a bunch of cells.

It's not about giving a bunch of cells more rights but rather protecting the rights of the unborn. Once the featus is developing its a human being right now imo and so abortion is morally wrong.

However I don't blame the woman as much as I blame society as a whole.

And I do appreciate what you say about women being the ones who actually deal with the process of pregnancy etc whereas men don't have any real responsibility at all.

It's a tough issue but the rights of the unborn need to be protected. The argument that they are just a bunch of cells only holds any force for the first few weeks at the very most.

Howdy, by saying a foetus can not be terminated - even if the woman wishes it - you are placing the rights of a potential human above that of a real-life walking/talking one.

That's the real issue to all of this though IMO... when do you decide that life is life.

I couldn't answer that question myself tbh... and with the world having so many different beliefs/theories/research etc I can't see people ever agreeing.... not when I'm alive anyway

[Kev]

Where we disagree is that I don't regard a developing child as a bunch of cells.

It's not about giving a bunch of cells more rights but rather protecting the rights of the unborn. Once the featus is developing its a human being right now imo and so abortion is morally wrong.

However I don't blame the woman as much as I blame society as a whole.

And I do appreciate what you say about women being the ones who actually deal with the process of pregnancy etc whereas men don't have any real responsibility at all.

It's a tough issue but the rights of the unborn need to be protected. The argument that they are just a bunch of cells only holds any force for the first few weeks at the very most.

Howdy, by saying a foetus can not be terminated - even if the woman wishes it - you are placing the rights of a potential human above that of a real-life walking/talking one.

That's the real issue to all of this though IMO... when do you decide that life is life.

I couldn't answer that question myself tbh... and with the world having so many different beliefs/theories/research etc I can't see people ever agreeing.... not when I'm alive anyway

That was my point Adam, it really depends on your worldview and your beliefs about where we come from.

If you believe we are created by God then life is sacred and abortion is self evidently wrong, if you believe we evolved then there is no such thing as right or wrong, but only societal norms, and hence abortion is fine,

The two camps will never agree.

@Missy, I don't see how giving a featus human rights elavates it above the woman, it places their rights on a par with them.

A woman couldn't decide to kill any other human because they didn't want them in their live so why should be able to choose to kill of their own child?

Granted other people arn't living and growing inside a women's womb, but they still need protection. The women does have free choice, she has the choice NOT to get pregnant if she doesn't want a child.

They arn't virgin births that are happening here, these women are getting pregnant because of their own actions, and part of life is that we have to accept the consequences of our actions.

But I do understand this is an extremely complicated issue and neither solution is ideal.

I am not against abortion in a legal sense, but I believe that education and support should be geared towards encouraging women, firstsly not to get pregnant if they don't want a child, and secondly that giving birth is given precendence and encouraged at all costs.

But it's an issue that will never really get solved as ultimately it depends on human nature changing, and that won't ever happen.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

If you believe we are created by God then life is sacred and abortion is self evidently wrong, if you believe we evolved then there is no such thing as right or wrong, but only societal norms, and hence abortion is fine,

Does this mean because I don' believe in god I can do as I please?

The two camps will never agree.

@Missy, I don't see how giving a featus human rights elavates it above the woman, it places their rights on a par with them.

Because by saying she can't abort means the foetus's welfare overrides that of the mother. You are taking away her right to abort and replacing it with a foetus's right to life.

A woman couldn't decide to kill any other human because they didn't want them in their live so why should be able to choose to kill of their own child?

Because its not a living breathing thing. There are more premature babies surviving than before but only with massive medical intervention even then it is likley to have health problems because it wasn't fully developed before birth.

Granted other people arn't living and growing inside a women's womb, but they still need protection. The women does have free choice, she has the choice NOT to get pregnant if she doesn't want a child.

The only 100% effective method is to not have sex.

They arn't virgin births that are happening here, these women are getting pregnant because of their own actions, and part of life is that we have to accept the consequences of our actions.

If they're getting pregnant on their own you better start praying.

Good to see you'd force women to have kids they don't want, let's fill up our world with more unwanted. Great.

I am not against abortion in a legal sense, but I believe that education and support should be geared towards encouraging women, firstsly not to get pregnant if they don't want a child, and secondly that giving birth is given precendence and encouraged at all costs.

Education needs to be for both men and women.

I think you want to return to the 1950's and 60's where women were shunned for being bad girls.

[AdamGB]

Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Men need to learn to keep it in their pants or at least ensure that a condom is used.

Guess who else do? ESPECIALLY considering as they're the ones who will have their body's go through a strenuous nine months (yes, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine!!

That still doesn't stop there being a legion of slags out there who are more than happy to have unprotected sex with a complete stranger.

Both sexes are more than capable of being sluts.

Equally responsible, it takes two to do the dirty tango.

[Gandalf]

Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Men need to learn to keep it in their pants or at least ensure that a condom is used.

Guess who else do? ESPECIALLY considering as they're the ones who will have their body's go through a strenuous nine months (yes, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine!!

That still doesn't stop there being a legion of slags out there who are more than happy to have unprotected sex with a complete stranger.

Both sexes are more than capable of being sluts.

Equally responsible, it takes two to do the dirty tango.

Totally agree.

If women don't want the hassle of destroying a child, then perhaps they should think twice about inserting the penis.

Or else ensure that the male is wearing one of those rubber things.

Either way, it isn't all that difficult to go through life without impregnating people. I have been married for 4 years, I have never once impregnated my wife, and I won't until I am ready to provide for my family.

The world would be better off with more people like me. My family in the UK are having children like rabbits. I don't relate to that kind of shit.

[AdamGB]

Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Men need to learn to keep it in their pants or at least ensure that a condom is used.

Guess who else do? ESPECIALLY considering as they're the ones who will have their body's go through a strenuous nine months (yes, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine!!

That still doesn't stop there being a legion of slags out there who are more than happy to have unprotected sex with a complete stranger.

Both sexes are more than capable of being sluts.

Equally responsible, it takes two to do the dirty tango.

Totally agree.

If women don't want the hassle of destroying a child, then perhaps they should think twice about inserting the penis.

Or else ensure that the male is wearing one of those rubber things.

Either way, it isn't all that difficult to go through life without impregnating people. I have been married for 4 years, I have never once impregnated my wife, and I won't until I am ready to provide for my family.

The world would be better off with more people like me. My family in the UK are having children like rabbits. I don't relate to that kind of shit.

Mate I'm 22 and it's ridiculous how many of my mates/people I know are having kids... I can only think of one who was in a serious relationship with the woman and even that was unplanned.

I've been with my girl for almost 2 years now and with everybody getting pregnant left right and centre it's made me extra cautious. Never once had a scare and needed a test... it's easy.

Without going into too much detail (I'll probably get ripped for this), even when she's been using birth control, I've never... *ahem* finished bare back.

The lad I mentioned before... his lass was on it, it didn't work.

Women are far to eager to blame men for everything, even when an equal amount of the responsibility lies with them. Yeah there are loads of arseholes running around with their cocks out... these woman are more than happy to open their legs for them though aren't they?

I would hope no feminists would be stupid enough to say "using protection is the man's responsibility" because they're the same people who would rip a bloke's bollo"cks off for saying "Protection?! that's the woman's responsibility.

It's everyone's...

[Kev]

Men need to learn to keep it in their pants or at least ensure that a condom is used.

Guess who else do? ESPECIALLY considering as they're the ones who will have their body's go through a strenuous nine months (yes, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine!!

That still doesn't stop there being a legion of slags out there who are more than happy to have unprotected sex with a complete stranger.

Both sexes are more than capable of being sluts.

Equally responsible, it takes two to do the dirty tango.

Totally agree.

If women don't want the hassle of destroying a child, then perhaps they should think twice about inserting the penis.

Or else ensure that the male is wearing one of those rubber things.

Either way, it isn't all that difficult to go through life without impregnating people. I have been married for 4 years, I have never once impregnated my wife, and I won't until I am ready to provide for my family.

The world would be better off with more people like me. My family in the UK are having children like rabbits. I don't relate to that kind of shit.

Mate I'm 22 and it's ridiculous how many of my mates/people I know are having kids... I can only think of one who was in a serious relationship with the woman and even that was unplanned.

I've been with my girl for almost 2 years now and with everybody getting pregnant left right and centre it's made me extra cautious. Never once had a scare and needed a test... it's easy.

Without going into too much detail (I'll probably get ripped for this), even when she's been using birth control, I've never... *ahem* finished bare back.

The lad I mentioned before... his lass was on it, it didn't work.

Women are far to eager to blame men for everything, even when an equal amount of the responsibility lies with them. Yeah there are loads of arseholes running around with their cocks out... these woman are more than happy to open their legs for them though aren't they?

I would hope no feminists would be stupid enough to say "using protection is the man's responsibility" because they're the same people who would rip a bloke's bollo"cks off for saying "Protection?! that's the woman's responsibility.

It's everyone's...

I think everybody should be responsible for themselves. If you want a sexual relationship but don't want kids, then you need to be responsible for yourself.

It's kind of like not putting locks on you front door because it's other people responsibility to be honest and law abiding, yes it is indeed their responsibility, but if you decide to not bother with locks because of this, well good luck....

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Men need to learn to keep it in their pants or at least ensure that a condom is used.

Guess who else do? ESPECIALLY considering as they're the ones who will have their body's go through a strenuous nine months (yes, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine!!

That still doesn't stop there being a legion of slags out there who are more than happy to have unprotected sex with a complete stranger.

Both sexes are more than capable of being sluts.

Equally responsible, it takes two to do the dirty tango.

Totally agree.

If women don't want the hassle of destroying a child, then perhaps they should think twice about inserting the penis.

Or else ensure that the male is wearing one of those rubber things.

Either way, it isn't all that difficult to go through life without impregnating people. I have been married for 4 years, I have never once impregnated my wife, and I won't until I am ready to provide for my family.

The world would be better off with more people like me. My family in the UK are having children like rabbits. I don't relate to that kind of shit.

Mate I'm 22 and it's ridiculous how many of my mates/people I know are having kids... I can only think of one who was in a serious relationship with the woman and even that was unplanned.

I've been with my girl for almost 2 years now and with everybody getting pregnant left right and centre it's made me extra cautious. Never once had a scare and needed a test... it's easy.

Without going into too much detail (I'll probably get ripped for this), even when she's been using birth control, I've never... *ahem* finished bare back.

The lad I mentioned before... his lass was on it, it didn't work.

Women are far to eager to blame men for everything, even when an equal amount of the responsibility lies with them. Yeah there are loads of arseholes running around with their cocks out... these woman are more than happy to open their legs for them though aren't they?

I would hope no feminists would be stupid enough to say "using protection is the man's responsibility" because they're the same people who would rip a bloke's bollo"cks off for saying "Protection?! that's the woman's responsibility.

It's everyone's...

It's great to see guys who are responsible. Many women think it's enough to be on the pill, frankly, it isn't, never mind pregnancy and all the other STI's going round. Both parties should insist on a condom but that's a bit like saying don't get drunk and don't have sex when you're drunk.

[El Kabong]

Missy, how about we just close our legs every so often and then you wouldn't have to keep having these abortions.....

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Missy, how about we just close our legs every so often and then you wouldn't have to keep having these abortions.....

But I like the drugs too much