Nobel Prize goes to Obama...

[Kirkland Laing]

So either it's "The stimulus needs time to work" in which case it's not the "quick fix" they sold us OR it's "We never knew it was this bad, we simply had no idea"

Kirkland, thank you for the chart though

Who told you it was a quick fix? This is another of your FACTS Lyle.

They knew it really was that bad, just when things are really fragile the American President, Treasury topper, Fed chief don't go to the media and say "It's really bad, we're fucked!" because that would send the markets into a spin. Instead you try and project confidence that things will get better. So they did exactly what they should have done. But nobody ever used the phrase "quick fix" to describe the response to the meltdown. Quite the opposite in fact.

[El Kabong]

Kirkland, Obama and Congress said "We need this stimulus package NOW and if we don't get it now we're screwed"....well if the majority of the money hasn't been spent yet and people are saying the recession is coming to an end then of course I am going to say "Did we really need it?" and if we did and we're now coming out of it or nearing the end of it then "Do we need to spend the rest of it?"

And if the Economic Stimulus Package is so great then why didn't you give W props for his Stimulus spending spree

[Kirkland Laing]

Kirkland, Obama and Congress said "We need this stimulus package NOW and if we don't get it now we're screwed"....well if the majority of the money hasn't been spent yet and people are saying the recession is coming to an end then of course I am going to say "Did we really need it?" and if we did and we're now coming out of it or nearing the end of it then "Do we need to spend the rest of it?"

And if the Economic Stimulus Package is so great then why didn't you give W props for his Stimulus spending spree

Every time I point out you're wrong on the FACTS you invent new ones. Bush didn't need to spend money, he'd inherited a budget surplus, not a once-in-a-century meltdown.

[El Kabong]

Every time I point out you're wrong on the FACTS you invent new ones. Bush didn't need to spend money, he'd inherited a budget surplus, not a once-in-a-century meltdown.

Did I invent that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB_lILm-r50
"They need help now"...DIRECT QUOTE from Obama

As for Bush, if I recall correctly the Sub Prime bubble burst in 2008 while W was still in office.

[AdamGB]

Playing devil's advocate here:

If you had a migraine, your head is unbearably hurting... you know the tablet will start to alleviate it in about 15 minutes.

But you wouldn't think to yourself 'my head is fucking killing, I need a pain killer in 15 minutes time...' you'd need it 'now'

I'll admit I don't know a great deal about this stimulus, but saying that something is needed right now isn't the same as saying something will work right now, is it?

Like I say, I'm just being devil's advocate here and I probably won't have as much insite into this as an American would, but from the logic I've seen in this thread... Obama saying that something is needed right now isn't the same as saying that it's a quick fix, just that things need to be put into motion right now.

If I was going to piss my pants in 30 seconds time, I'd need to start walking to the bathroom... right now! It wouldn't be safe to piss as soon as I started walking there though

[Kev]

Playing devil's advocate here:

If you had a migraine, your head is unbearably hurting... you know the tablet will start to alleviate it in about 15 minutes.

But you wouldn't think to yourself 'my head is fucking killing, I need a pain killer in 15 minutes time...' you'd need it 'now'

I'll admit I don't know a great deal about this stimulus, but saying that something is needed right now isn't the same as saying something will work right now, is it?

Like I say, I'm just being devil's advocate here and I probably won't have as much insite into this as an American would, but from the logic I've seen in this thread... Obama saying that something is needed right now isn't the same as saying that it's a quick fix, just that things need to be put into motion right now.

If I was going to piss my pants in 30 seconds time, I'd need to start walking to the bathroom... right now! It wouldn't be safe to piss as soon as I started walking there though

Sounds like you are saying America is just moments from going down the toilet and Obama is rushing to find a potty.

I think though being about to piss yourself or already being in agony are things that demand a quick fix, actually the opposite of the point you were trying to make but I get what your saying.

A better analogy maybe to imagine you have you are on a nice camping trip with the plan to hike many miles. You have a target destination to reach by sundown but you're stuggling in rough terrain and are a few miles away still with only an hour of sunlight left. As the region is pretty treacherous and it may not be safe at night it might be more prudent to make a camp for the night where you are, putting you behind schedule and slowing your immediate progress but it will prevent any possibly accidents or disasters with you and your fellow campers wandering on these hilly slopes, in the dark.

[El Kabong]

Playing devil's advocate here:

If you had a migraine, your head is unbearably hurting... you know the tablet will start to alleviate it in about 15 minutes.

But you wouldn't think to yourself 'my head is fucking killing, I need a pain killer in 15 minutes time...' you'd need it 'now'

I'll admit I don't know a great deal about this stimulus, but saying that something is needed right now isn't the same as saying something will work right now, is it?

Like I say, I'm just being devil's advocate here and I probably won't have as much insite into this as an American would, but from the logic I've seen in this thread... Obama saying that something is needed right now isn't the same as saying that it's a quick fix, just that things need to be put into motion right now.

If I was going to piss my pants in 30 seconds time, I'd need to start walking to the bathroom... right now! It wouldn't be safe to piss as soon as I started walking there though

...fair points, but you also would not want to take so much of a pain killer to where you overdose, and that is kind of what I am getting at.

You also wouldn't want to be so paranoid for the next time you need to go to the bathroom that you never leave the toilet.

There's "what needs to be done" and then there is "overkill" and I am of the opinion that what Obama and Congress have done is "overkill"

[AdamGB]

Heh, yeah too many paracetamol will up set your stomach... not that I take the things... much to my girlfriend's annoyance! "JUST FUCKING TAKE A PAINKILLER!" (Am I going off topic slightly? )

Yeah, I don't know what or how much of 'what' your economy needs etc, or even if the stimulus is at all a good thing... I'm just being devil's advocate, cos I'm a dick like that!

[Kirkland Laing]

Every time I point out you're wrong on the FACTS you invent new ones. Bush didn't need to spend money, he'd inherited a budget surplus, not a once-in-a-century meltdown.

Did I invent that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB_lILm-r50"They need help now"...DIRECT QUOTE from Obama

As for Bush, if I recall correctly the Sub Prime bubble burst in 2008 while W was still in office.

You're inventing the FACT that Obama was the only person asking for a stimulus. Both sides agreed that there needed to be one, they just disagreed on how to do it. Now if you go back and compare this FACT to the original FACT you were wrong about you'll see you've gone off on a tangent again.

It wasn't a subprime bubble, it was a housing and general credit bubble, subprime was only a small part of it. And it started as well as finished during Bush's presidency, Bush allowing the easy money policies and scrapping masses of regulations that allowed the bubble to form and the meltdown to happen.

[El Kabong]

Where were the Republicans out there demanding stimulus

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Where were the Republicans out there demanding stimulus

President of the United States George W. Bush, was accused in a criminal complaint and lawsuit of raping Margie Schoedinger, who later died in a questionable case of suicide. Bush was also accused by Tammy Phillips, a former stripper, who was quoted in the National Enquirer in 2000 saying she had an affair with Bush that had ended in 1999. Another serious question involves statements from the wife of Red Blount, whom Bush campaigned for, while possibly A.W.O.L from the Air National Guard at age 26. She stated that he was "all over their 14 year old daughter."


Parker J. Bena was a Republican activist and a key player in the campaign to elect George W. Bush as President. Bena was charged and later pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography and lying to the FBI. Bena reportedly told the feds that he had received an unsolicited e-mail containing pictures of children (some as young as three years old) performing various sexual acts, but agents learned that he had in fact voluntarily entered a number of child pornography websites and downloaded the images himself. This is said to have involved acts with children as young as 3 years old, on his home computer. Parker J. Bena was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

Mark Foley, Republican Representative, Florida Sixteenth Congressional District. Resigned after trying to solicit sex from male congressional pages via an instant messenger program. The conversations included his asking a sixteen-year-old "stud" whether his penis was erect and requesting that he take out and measure his penis. The cover-up involved Republican House Majority Leader John Boehner, Ohio Eighth Congressional District and Republican House Speaker Dennis Hastert, Illinois Fourteenth District.

Newt Gingrich, well established crusader against legislation that assists women and the poor, has married three times while spouting Christian values the entire time. Newt Gingrich's campaign worker Anne Manning, admitted that she gave Newt oral sex while he was still married to his first wife, essentially placing Newt in the exact same position President Clinton had to endure when Gingrich and his cronies maintained their pressure over the Lewinski incident. Gingrish informed one wife he was filing for divorce while she was in the hospital recovering from cancer treatments.

[Kirkland Laing]

Where were the Republicans out there demanding stimulus

Go back and read the papers from the relevant period. The only real difference of opinion was should the stimulus be fiscal spending (Democrats) or should it be tax cuts (GOP). Despite tax cuts being completely useless as a stimulus the GOP ended up voting for a bipartisan stimulus which was 60/40 fiscal/tax cuts, apart from the ones who were grandstanding by voting against. If McCain had been prez the stimulus would have been 60/40 the other way (even less effective than the bill that passed) but there still would have been a stimulus. And don't forget the first part of the stimulus was signed by Bush.