Who else could replicate Haye's performance?

[amat]

I agree %100 percent with Hattonthehammer's post. It's completely impossible for any of these guys to actually win fights with Valuev. Valuev is heavy like timber and moves forward almost constantly! Never have the terms "unstoppable force" and "immovable object" come together so perfectly to describe a Heavyweight champion (always in memory) of our era. He's simply huge and because of this can literally only move forward in one directtion with very direct and honest approach to his opponent. Because of this constant stomping forward, the ring generalship department of scoring fights is always in his favor. One time back when he fought Jameel McCline, in the time it took Valuev to take one monstrous step straight ahead, McCline had shuffled his feet over a dozen times whilst throwing only 2 punches. It was a crude attempt to distract an eye less keen then mine on what the sport actually was. Because of all McCline's excessive foot movements, I had him down 6 points entering the 3rd round and all his negativity was only costing him more in the third before his knee exploded out of it's socket. It had been fooled into thinking it was entering a fight but McCline seemed not to want to use his fists. His knees couldn't handle it. Don't tell me that wasn't an impressive victory.

McCline was a monster-man himself and even he costs himself the fight with his feet. Calzaghe is much to small of a man to beat Valuev! Could you imagine how much more negative he would have to be?!?!

I think if Valuev can throw like 19 punches in all these fights combined it should be enough for him to win every round.

[WelshDevilRob]

Bilbo you have lost the plot again, my friend.

I can see some logic behind the madness but to post it is a clear sign of insanity. (I mean that as a friend)

Joe Calzaghe said he could beat Wladimir Klitschko and most rubbished his thoughts.

Drop Valuev or Wladimir in a cell with Ike Ibeabuchi and neither comes out alive.

[Kev]

Bilbo you have lost the plot again, my friend.

I can see some logic behind the madness but to post it is a clear sign of insanity. (I mean that as a friend)

Joe Calzaghe said he could beat Wladimir Klitschko and most rubbished his thoughts.

Drop Valuev or Wladimir in a cell with Ike Ibeabuchi and neither comes out alive.

ha yeah I agree Wlad would kill Joe. But Valuev just wouldnt land on him if Calzaghe chose to keep away.

Maybe these guys wouldn't do enough to beat him, but they would all comfortably survive if thats all they wanted to do, and imo that is shameful because they would get torn up against a decent real heavyweight champ.

Do you think Valuev would knock out Hopkins, Calzaghe, Adamek, Ward, even Floyd or Mosely if they were as negative as Haye?

[ninjaspy3]

Bilbo you have lost the plot again, my friend.

I can see some logic behind the madness but to post it is a clear sign of insanity. (I mean that as a friend)

Joe Calzaghe said he could beat Wladimir Klitschko and most rubbished his thoughts.

Drop Valuev or Wladimir in a cell with Ike Ibeabuchi and neither comes out alive.

ha yeah I agree Wlad would kill Joe. But Valuev just wouldnt land on him if Calzaghe chose to keep away.

Maybe these guys wouldn't do enough to beat him, but they would all comfortably survive if thats all they wanted to do, and imo that is shameful because they would get torn up against a decent real heavyweight champ.

Do you think Valuev would knock out Hopkins, Calzaghe, Adamek, Ward, even Floyd or Mosely if they were as negative as Haye?

Making a statement like that is missing the point. You cannot win the fight with running only. You are saying that Haye -only- ran the whole time and sorry but that is false. If that were true, he couldnt win. But he did win. 2 of 3 judges called it and the 3rd called a draw. And the punches that Haye threw were not weak. Valuev simply has a solid chin. That is why no one has KO'd him at all. I repeat, saying that Haye only ran for 12 rounds is false. He ran, but he hit as well, and obviously he hit enough to convince for a win -In Germany- I am only stating the obvious, or so I thought.

[Kev]

Bilbo you have lost the plot again, my friend.

I can see some logic behind the madness but to post it is a clear sign of insanity. (I mean that as a friend)

Joe Calzaghe said he could beat Wladimir Klitschko and most rubbished his thoughts.

Drop Valuev or Wladimir in a cell with Ike Ibeabuchi and neither comes out alive.

ha yeah I agree Wlad would kill Joe. But Valuev just wouldnt land on him if Calzaghe chose to keep away.

Maybe these guys wouldn't do enough to beat him, but they would all comfortably survive if thats all they wanted to do, and imo that is shameful because they would get torn up against a decent real heavyweight champ.

Do you think Valuev would knock out Hopkins, Calzaghe, Adamek, Ward, even Floyd or Mosely if they were as negative as Haye?

Making a statement like that is missing the point. You cannot win the fight with running only. You are saying that Haye -only- ran the whole time and sorry but that is false. If that were true, he couldnt win. But he did win. 2 of 3 judges called it and the 3rd called a draw. And the punches that Haye threw were not weak. Valuev simply has a solid chin. That is why no one has KO'd him at all. I repeat, saying that Haye only ran for 12 rounds is false. He ran, but he hit as well, and obviously he hit enough to convince for a win -In Germany- I am only stating the obvious, or so I thought.

The point is that Haye didn't beat Valuev any better than John Ruiz, Evander Holyfield or Larry Donald did, to say nothing of Chagaev who actually got the decision against him.

In those earlier fights even though Valuev clearly lost he held on to his title because he was seen as more marketable than Ruiz, an ancient Holyfield or Larry Donald.

Haye however is the new cash cow and even though he turned in a performance that would have been insufficient had another boxer performed the same, he got the decision as he's the new market friendly boxer in the heavyweight division.

Do you really think Haye performed any better Ruiz, Chagaev, Holyfield and Donald?

He didn't, I'd say his performance was actually the poorest of the five but he's getting talked up now as if he did a great thing.

There are probably 20 heavyweights who could beat Valuev better than Haye did, and all of the fighters I mentioned before could cope with him comfortably, maybe not be aggressive enough to win, but they would survive without incident.

Valuev is the least threatening heavyweight champ in years, which other world champ has had such a poor ko ratio as Valuev against second rate opposition?

He should 5 losses on his record that we know of. It wouldn't suprise me at all if he has gotten gifts throughout his career.

Beating him like Haye did was a disappointing performance, imo he looked worse than Ruiz, Holyfield, Donald and Chagaev before him. Not impressed at all.

[Master]

To beat Valuev you have to be decent as his record shows. No non-heavyweight can beat him, just too big.

[ninjaspy3]

ha yeah I agree Wlad would kill Joe. But Valuev just wouldnt land on him if Calzaghe chose to keep away.

Maybe these guys wouldn't do enough to beat him, but they would all comfortably survive if thats all they wanted to do, and imo that is shameful because they would get torn up against a decent real heavyweight champ.

Do you think Valuev would knock out Hopkins, Calzaghe, Adamek, Ward, even Floyd or Mosely if they were as negative as Haye?

Making a statement like that is missing the point. You cannot win the fight with running only. You are saying that Haye -only- ran the whole time and sorry but that is false. If that were true, he couldnt win. But he did win. 2 of 3 judges called it and the 3rd called a draw. And the punches that Haye threw were not weak. Valuev simply has a solid chin. That is why no one has KO'd him at all. I repeat, saying that Haye only ran for 12 rounds is false. He ran, but he hit as well, and obviously he hit enough to convince for a win -In Germany- I am only stating the obvious, or so I thought.

The point is that Haye didn't beat Valuev any better than John Ruiz, Evander Holyfield or Larry Donald did, to say nothing of Chagaev who actually got the decision against him.

In those earlier fights even though Valuev clearly lost he held on to his title because he was seen as more marketable than Ruiz, an ancient Holyfield or Larry Donald.

Haye however is the new cash cow and even though he turned in a performance that would have been insufficient had another boxer performed the same, he got the decision as he's the new market friendly boxer in the heavyweight division.

Do you really think Haye performed any better Ruiz, Chagaev, Holyfield and Donald?

He didn't, I'd say his performance was actually the poorest of the five but he's getting talked up now as if he did a great thing.

There are probably 20 heavyweights who could beat Valuev better than Haye did, and all of the fighters I mentioned before could cope with him comfortably, maybe not be aggressive enough to win, but they would survive without incident.

Valuev is the least threatening heavyweight champ in years, which other world champ has had such a poor ko ratio as Valuev against second rate opposition?

He should 5 losses on his record that we know of. It wouldn't suprise me at all if he has gotten gifts throughout his career.

Beating him like Haye did was a disappointing performance, imo he looked worse than Ruiz, Holyfield, Donald and Chagaev before him. Not impressed at all.

so........ I decided to go back and watch the fight in which Valuev was beaten best, by your description (vs Chagaev) The fight was more exciting but I noticed a few interesting things:

-1 judge gave a draw and the other 2 went for Chagaev.. interesting, sounds familiar

-There were more punches thrown -And- more punches landed on each other by both fighters

Basically Chagaev took more risk and therefore got the praise, but also the extra punishment from standing and trading with Valuev, which for that fight was actually acceptable -but-

Fast forward to Chagaev's fight with Wladimir. In that fight, standing his ground caused Chagaev to take more punishment than he could handle and lead quickly to Wladimir bringing the fight to an early end.

Imagine for a moment if Chagaev had practiced the technique that Haye used on Valuev -being highly mobile-

While many people think this is cowardly, just imagine if Chagaev could actually move fast and slip in a nice hard hit on Wladimir. His chances would have been way better to daze Wlad for a moment and the maybe take advantage of it.

What Haye did against Valuev could potentially be used to actually give a chance to get a solid shot in on Wladimir. See where I'm going with this?

[Kev]

Making a statement like that is missing the point. You cannot win the fight with running only. You are saying that Haye -only- ran the whole time and sorry but that is false. If that were true, he couldnt win. But he did win. 2 of 3 judges called it and the 3rd called a draw. And the punches that Haye threw were not weak. Valuev simply has a solid chin. That is why no one has KO'd him at all. I repeat, saying that Haye only ran for 12 rounds is false. He ran, but he hit as well, and obviously he hit enough to convince for a win -In Germany- I am only stating the obvious, or so I thought.

The point is that Haye didn't beat Valuev any better than John Ruiz, Evander Holyfield or Larry Donald did, to say nothing of Chagaev who actually got the decision against him.

In those earlier fights even though Valuev clearly lost he held on to his title because he was seen as more marketable than Ruiz, an ancient Holyfield or Larry Donald.

Haye however is the new cash cow and even though he turned in a performance that would have been insufficient had another boxer performed the same, he got the decision as he's the new market friendly boxer in the heavyweight division.

Do you really think Haye performed any better Ruiz, Chagaev, Holyfield and Donald?

He didn't, I'd say his performance was actually the poorest of the five but he's getting talked up now as if he did a great thing.

There are probably 20 heavyweights who could beat Valuev better than Haye did, and all of the fighters I mentioned before could cope with him comfortably, maybe not be aggressive enough to win, but they would survive without incident.

Valuev is the least threatening heavyweight champ in years, which other world champ has had such a poor ko ratio as Valuev against second rate opposition?

He should 5 losses on his record that we know of. It wouldn't suprise me at all if he has gotten gifts throughout his career.

Beating him like Haye did was a disappointing performance, imo he looked worse than Ruiz, Holyfield, Donald and Chagaev before him. Not impressed at all.

so........ I decided to go back and watch the fight in which Valuev was beaten best, by your description (vs Chagaev) The fight was more exciting but I noticed a few interesting things:

-1 judge gave a draw and the other 2 went for Chagaev.. interesting, sounds familiar

-There were more punches thrown -And- more punches landed on each other by both fighters

Basically Chagaev took more risk and therefore got the praise, but also the extra punishment from standing and trading with Valuev, which for that fight was actually acceptable -but-

Fast forward to Chagaev's fight with Wladimir. In that fight, standing his ground caused Chagaev to take more punishment than he could handle and lead quickly to Wladimir bringing the fight to an early end.

Imagine for a moment if Chagaev had practiced the technique that Haye used on Valuev -being highly mobile-

While many people think this is cowardly, just imagine if Chagaev could actually move fast and slip in a nice hard hit on Wladimir. His chances would have been way better to daze Wlad for a moment and the maybe take advantage of it.

What Haye did against Valuev could potentially be used to actually give a chance to get a solid shot in on Wladimir. See where I'm going with this?

The ONLY reason Haye and Evander were able to keep out of range of Valuev is because he so fucking slow!

I'd love to see Haye try that negativity with Wlad or Vitali, he'll just look like a scared fool.

They arn't going to plod and lumber cluelessly around the ring like Valuev did.

If Haye tries to box against Wlad or Vitali like he did against Valuev he has NO chance.

[Kev]

I agree %100 percent with Hattonthehammer's post. It's completely impossible for any of these guys to actually win fights with Valuev. Valuev is heavy like timber and moves forward almost constantly! Never have the terms "unstoppable force" and "immovable object" come together so perfectly to describe a Heavyweight champion (always in memory) of our era. He's simply huge and because of this can literally only move forward in one directtion with very direct and honest approach to his opponent. Because of this constant stomping forward, the ring generalship department of scoring fights is always in his favor. One time back when he fought Jameel McCline, in the time it took Valuev to take one monstrous step straight ahead, McCline had shuffled his feet over a dozen times whilst throwing only 2 punches. It was a crude attempt to distract an eye less keen then mine on what the sport actually was. Because of all McCline's excessive foot movements, I had him down 6 points entering the 3rd round and all his negativity was only costing him more in the third before his knee exploded out of it's socket. It had been fooled into thinking it was entering a fight but McCline seemed not to want to use his fists. His knees couldn't handle it. Don't tell me that wasn't an impressive victory.

McCline was a monster-man himself and even he costs himself the fight with his feet. Calzaghe is much to small of a man to beat Valuev! Could you imagine how much more negative he would have to be?!?!

I think if Valuev can throw like 19 punches in all these fights combined it should be enough for him to win every round.

But do you think Valuev would stop any of these guys is the question?

Basically Haye ran away for 12 rounds and jogged passed with a light punch to sound each bell.

Of the fighters I mentioned which of those do you think Valuev would stop inside the distance if they only tried to survive?

I honestly don't think Valuev would land a punch on some of those guys. Sure they wouldn't be able to hit him either, but they would go 12 rounds which they could never do with a decent heavyweight.

Valuev is a freak show.

Any top 10 heavyweight could beat him easily. His best opposition has only been second rate fighters, (an ancient Evander, Ruiz, Chagaev) and in my opinion they all beat him handily.

The Klitschko's would kill him, and most of the other top guys could beat him easily imo.

Someone said earlier that everyone looks bad against Valuev. I disagree, I think he has made very average or past it fighters look like almost world champions.

Haye, Holyfield, Ruiz and Chagaev get dominated against the real champs, against Valuev they almost won.