Could Cotto have ever won?

[hackey]

As per title, do you think that Cotto in any way could have won the fight or was he always going to lose?

My thoughts are that in the early stages, behind the jab he looks excellent. He was catching Pacquiao and looked composed. He then wrecklessly tried to prove some point by banging with Pac and got clipped and went down.

That in itself was not a big knockdown and after he looked composed again, but the in the fourth decided to trade and took that great left and was never the same after it.

IMO he fought an awful fight. He made so many errors that for a great boxer are really strange. He comes across as intelligent but showed alot of stupidity in his tactics, no real composure and poor judgement.

On another day and with another trainer I believe he may have given a better account of himself and I'm sure that he is sorely disappointed, not about the loss, but in the manner of it. He didn't give himself the opportunity to win by fighting to his strengths.

[Youngblood]

It wasn't so much he fought a bad fight, but got exposed for all the things he did wrong. There's a fairly big difference. Manny made mistakes too. Wasn't he supposed to not exchange with Cotto, to fight in and out, to circle? Yet there he was, toe to toe from the start...

No fighter fights perfect, because it is a delicate dance of athleticism, of styles, of wills; of those whose final goal is to physically destroy the person across from you.

[piye]

Yes Cotto needs a good trainer! every time he used the jab and moved he was effective! he decided instead to be a brawler against Pac who is faster and as it turns out a more effective puncher.

[Tysonbruno]

Yes he could had he boxed off the back foot like he had to when hurt from the start he would have out boxed Pacquiao Pac had trouble with Cotto's left jab i don't think it missed. Cotto fought the wrong fight he did all the bull dozing stuff way to early but one thing is for sure how effective he was on the back foot showed how effective Mayweather will be. I was also suprised that when Pac hasn't got a fighter coming to him he becomes less effective. I feel for Cotto but perhaps he can dust himself off and get Pac in a rematch when Mayweather has done with him

[Fenster]

Cotto boxed great in the first but when a ferocious fighter like Pac is on the attack he basically forces you into a punch-up.

Cotto must have got a big shock that he was coming off second best so badly.

Pac was simply much better than him. He basically beat Cotto in 5 rounds.

[zhubin]

There was a lot of questions for me about Cotto going into this fight: how much did he have left mentally and physically after the Margo fight, would coming in at 145 effect his already questionable stamina, etc. but the biggest question was whether him and his relatively inexperienced trainer be able to implement the right strategy for this fight. I always thought the worst thing he could have done against Pac was to try and impose his "strength" by chasing him or exchanging with him...Cotto simply didn't have the speed or stamina for that kind of fight. To beat Pac you have to counter him by drawing him in...and especially for a fighter like Cotto, it was very important that he try and control the tempo of the fight in the first half so he doesn't gas out. Now, that is easier said than done against a relentless fighter like Manny....but Cotto needed to use that jab constantly and do his best to catch Manny coming in. He did that well for about a round or two. None of this is to take anything away from Manny...he was relentless and showed he could take Cotto's best shot. You just have feel sorry for Cotto with what has happened to him in the last year. Would he have been the same fighter if the Tony fight didn't go down the way it did? maybe. Would that have made a difference against Pac? maybe not.

[Memphis]

Manny was that dominant it looked like any success Cotto had was because Manny allowed it.

He would have got taken apart regardless of what he did.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

As per title, do you think that Cotto in any way could have won the fight or was he always going to lose?

My thoughts are that in the early stages, behind the jab he looks excellent. He was catching Pacquiao and looked composed. He then wrecklessly tried to prove some point by banging with Pac and got clipped and went down.

That in itself was not a big knockdown and after he looked composed again, but the in the fourth decided to trade and took that great left and was never the same after it.

IMO he fought an awful fight. He made so many errors that for a great boxer are really strange. He comes across as intelligent but showed alot of stupidity in his tactics, no real composure and poor judgement.

On another day and with another trainer I believe he may have given a better account of himself and I'm sure that he is sorely disappointed, not about the loss, but in the manner of it. He didn't give himself the opportunity to win by fighting to his strengths.

I believe I said something long these lines on another thread.....which got ignored

He 'lost' it in round 4 in which he was clearly winning till he went for it big and got dropped hard. Once they both knew he could be hurt it changed the fight greatly. I do wonder how the cards would have looked if Cotto had then gone on the back foot and looked to nick the rounds rather than fight for them. 90% of the board would have called him a chicken whilst the rest of us would have applauded his ability to switch styles.

[Ray Rossman]

Yes, Cotto could have won. But he didn't. And why ? Because Manny Pacquiao has the camp from hell, and a trainer that truly does his job when preparing his fighter for an upcoming fight. Not just in physical training, but in putting together a fight plan. Watching videos hour after hour of the guy his guy is going to fight, looking for flaws, openings, habits, movement, and so forth. Then putting a plan together so his fighter can counter any attack thats mounted against him. It takes years to be a complete fighter, even with natural talent. And it takes years to obtain the knowledge to become a great trainer. Theres no secret here. Cotto is a very good hard punching hard working fighter. But hes not a thinking fighter. Hes a brawler and that will only take you so far. Manny is a very smart, thinking fighter. He can box, Counter punch, or stand toe to toe. And most of all, he listens to his corner and the advice of Freddy Roach.

[Dark Lord Al]

Cotto boxed great in the first but when a ferocious fighter like Pac is on the attack he basically forces you into a punch-up.

Cotto must have got a big shock that he was coming off second best so badly.

Pac was simply much better than him. He basically beat Cotto in 5 rounds.

I have to agree with Fenster , lets face facts , PACMAN was just better in every department.
Im sure if Cotto had boxed on the back foot more , then Pacman would have adapted.
This post is kind of silly really , i do not conform to " IF'S AND BUT'S "
Fact , Cotto praised PAC and said he was one of the best fighters of all time , and lets face it Miguel knows more about it than the rest of us put together.

[Dark Lord Al]

As per title, do you think that Cotto in any way could have won the fight or was he always going to lose?

My thoughts are that in the early stages, behind the jab he looks excellent. He was catching Pacquiao and looked composed. He then wrecklessly tried to prove some point by banging with Pac and got clipped and went down.

That in itself was not a big knockdown and after he looked composed again, but the in the fourth decided to trade and took that great left and was never the same after it.

IMO he fought an awful fight. He made so many errors that for a great boxer are really strange. He comes across as intelligent but showed alot of stupidity in his tactics, no real composure and poor judgement.

On another day and with another trainer I believe he may have given a better account of himself and I'm sure that he is sorely disappointed, not about the loss, but in the manner of it. He didn't give himself the opportunity to win by fighting to his strengths.

I believe I said something long these lines on another thread.....which got ignored

He 'lost' it in round 4 in which he was clearly winning till he went for it big and got dropped hard. Once they both knew he could be hurt it changed the fight greatly. I do wonder how the cards would have looked if Cotto had then gone on the back foot and looked to nick the rounds rather than fight for them. 90% of the board would have called him a chicken whilst the rest of us would have applauded his ability to switch styles.

Did Miguel change his style ? or was he forced to by a superior fighter ?
In my mind Missy i think it was the latter.

[Althugz]

As per title, do you think that Cotto in any way could have won the fight or was he always going to lose?

My thoughts are that in the early stages, behind the jab he looks excellent. He was catching Pacquiao and looked composed. He then wrecklessly tried to prove some point by banging with Pac and got clipped and went down.

That in itself was not a big knockdown and after he looked composed again, but the in the fourth decided to trade and took that great left and was never the same after it.

IMO he fought an awful fight. He made so many errors that for a great boxer are really strange. He comes across as intelligent but showed alot of stupidity in his tactics, no real composure and poor judgement.

On another day and with another trainer I believe he may have given a better account of himself and I'm sure that he is sorely disappointed, not about the loss, but in the manner of it. He didn't give himself the opportunity to win by fighting to his strengths.

I believe I said something long these lines on another thread.....which got ignored

He 'lost' it in round 4 in which he was clearly winning till he went for it big and got dropped hard. Once they both knew he could be hurt it changed the fight greatly. I do wonder how the cards would have looked if Cotto had then gone on the back foot and looked to nick the rounds rather than fight for them. 90% of the board would have called him a chicken whilst the rest of us would have applauded his ability to switch styles.

I agree with you completely Missy -That 4th round knockdown was the fight changer. Cotto was cool, composed and dealing with the Pacman until then.

He lost something after that knockdown. Maybe it was fear - I dunno but I was shocked with Manny. I can't take nothing away from him. Truely amazing. I don't think I'll ever bet against Manny again, maybe not even in the Mayweather fight!

On another topic I think Floyd Sr is right about the Pac Man being on "something" but hey that's another arguement for another day Innocent until proven guilty - Right now I think Manny has done amazing things in the boxing world

[Dark Lord Al]

As per title, do you think that Cotto in any way could have won the fight or was he always going to lose?

My thoughts are that in the early stages, behind the jab he looks excellent. He was catching Pacquiao and looked composed. He then wrecklessly tried to prove some point by banging with Pac and got clipped and went down.

That in itself was not a big knockdown and after he looked composed again, but the in the fourth decided to trade and took that great left and was never the same after it.

IMO he fought an awful fight. He made so many errors that for a great boxer are really strange. He comes across as intelligent but showed alot of stupidity in his tactics, no real composure and poor judgement.

On another day and with another trainer I believe he may have given a better account of himself and I'm sure that he is sorely disappointed, not about the loss, but in the manner of it. He didn't give himself the opportunity to win by fighting to his strengths.

I believe I said something long these lines on another thread.....which got ignored

He 'lost' it in round 4 in which he was clearly winning till he went for it big and got dropped hard. Once they both knew he could be hurt it changed the fight greatly. I do wonder how the cards would have looked if Cotto had then gone on the back foot and looked to nick the rounds rather than fight for them. 90% of the board would have called him a chicken whilst the rest of us would have applauded his ability to switch styles.

I agree with you completely Missy -That 4th round knockdown was the fight changer. Cotto was cool, composed and dealing with the Pacman until then.

He lost something after that knockdown. Maybe it was fear - I dunno but I was shocked with Manny. I can't take nothing away from him. Truely amazing. I don't think I'll ever bet against Manny again, maybe not even in the Mayweather fight!

On another topic I think Floyd Sr is right about the Pac Man being on "something" but hey that's another arguement for another day Innocent until proven guilty - Right now I think Manny has done amazing things in the boxing world

Since when did anyone take "Predator" seriously anyway , when hes out of the spotlight for the right reasons , he has to try to get into the spotlight for all the wrong reasons , face facts Floyd " PRUNEFACE " Sr, is a bitter old twat.

[fan johnny]

As per title, do you think that Cotto in any way could have won the fight or was he always going to lose?

My thoughts are that in the early stages, behind the jab he looks excellent. He was catching Pacquiao and looked composed. He then wrecklessly tried to prove some point by banging with Pac and got clipped and went down.

That in itself was not a big knockdown and after he looked composed again, but the in the fourth decided to trade and took that great left and was never the same after it.

IMO he fought an awful fight. He made so many errors that for a great boxer are really strange. He comes across as intelligent but showed alot of stupidity in his tactics, no real composure and poor judgement.

On another day and with another trainer I believe he may have given a better account of himself and I'm sure that he is sorely disappointed, not about the loss, but in the manner of it. He didn't give himself the opportunity to win by fighting to his strengths.

I believe I said something long these lines on another thread.....which got ignored

He 'lost' it in round 4 in which he was clearly winning till he went for it big and got dropped hard. Once they both knew he could be hurt it changed the fight greatly. I do wonder how the cards would have looked if Cotto had then gone on the back foot and looked to nick the rounds rather than fight for them. 90% of the board would have called him a chicken whilst the rest of us would have applauded his ability to switch styles.

I agree with you completely Missy -That 4th round knockdown was the fight changer. Cotto was cool, composed and dealing with the Pacman until then.

He lost something after that knockdown. Maybe it was fear - I dunno but I was shocked with Manny. I can't take nothing away from him. Truely amazing. I don't think I'll ever bet against Manny again, maybe not even in the Mayweather fight!

On another topic I think Floyd Sr is right about the Pac Man being on "something" but hey that's another arguement for another day Innocent until proven guilty - Right now I think Manny has done amazing things in the boxing world

Confidence! is what Cotto lost in the 4th.

[Jesse James]

Cotto was robbed! He was about to KO Manny any second until the damn ref stepped in and stopped the fight. Miguel had him right where he wanted him, it was all part of his plan. Damn that Bayliss!!!!!