Why Manny can't beat Floyd

[Intazzz]

I guess there still some morons who downgrade Pacquiao ability. If the fight happen. Are they gonna eat their word again and again. How many times they eat crow?

[El Kabong]

THREAD TILE like MANNY CANT BEAT <Put any name here> MUST BE PROHIBITED in these forums...



Taeth


No disrespect mate but the thread title sounds stupid really. I mean cmon ....

....all due respect miron_lang, but Taeth did give very sound reasoning and examples behind his opinion.

maybe it's best titled "Why Manny SHOULDN'T beat Floyd" or "Why Manny WON'T beat Floyd" but I digress.

Manny Pacquiao has proven himself to be a very dangerous fighter, but at times he hasn't been this great. People point alot to the Marquez fight, but hell how about the first fight with Morales

Floyd is going to be difficult for Manny to beat because Manny is the puncher and Floyd is the defensive expert BUT Floyd can also hurt guys with his counterpunching and I doubt Manny's defense is up to the task of outdueling PBF, it's not Manny's style

[DaxxKahn]

[/quote]

1. Mayweather has a way better chin than Hatton or Cotto and he's 10x harder to hit cleanly.

2. Watch Mayweather any other southpaw.

3. Pacquiao didn't stand there against Marquez, who hit him continually with ease. That same Marquez is slower, smaller, and less accurate than Mayweather as was painfully evident in their fight.

4. Larry Merchant is a fucking idiot. When Cotto was coming forward and staying cautious he was beating Manny, when he opened up tried to trade, he was getting beaten up by Manny.[/quote]


Mayweather has a better chin then Cotto? How do we know this? When has Floyds chin really been tested? Floyd like Roy Jones in his prime does not get hit enough to know what his chin is really like.

[cnote111]

What the hell you on about??

It's quite refreshing to see so called Pac fans saying Floyd will win, not saying he will win im still undecided but Floyd is the favourite imo.

Say my favourite fighter rite now is Matthew Hatton because im a huge fan do you think I would back him to beat Pac?

There's nothing refreshing about it... I'm cool with the 50/50 comment, and i'm cool with "it won't be easy at all to defeat a fighter like PBF"... But to say Manny "CAN'T" beat Floyd is ludicris... Thats the part i have a problem with especially for a "Pac Fan"..

Also, for you to even compare the likeliness of Matthew Hatton beating pac is equavalent to Pac Beating Floyd was wayyyyy off base.... i think i puked in my mouth a little...

Why is it ludicrous to think Pac cant beat Floyd??

Floyd is unbeaton fighter who is a great fighter, so cos you got ur head so far up Manny's arse it's ludicrous for anyone to think Pac cant beat probably the best fighter technically we have seen for the last fifthteen years??

I have my favourite fighters but that doesnt cloud my judgement when my fighter is possibly got his hands full im not going to say my man will win whoever he faces just because I get a bit of blood in the end of my penis everytime his name is mentioned!!!

The odds have Floyd a clear favourite will he win we dont know but with the guys skills there is every possibility he makes Pac look silly we will have to see.

Can't = Impossible = Ludicris <--- Does that clear it up for you...

Do you honestly feel it is impossible for Pac to win

Maybe the definition of Can't has illuded you for some odd reason...Oh wait, then you post to Miron Lang exactly what i'm saying... "Can't" is the operative word here... You completely jumped on my position and then defended it by saying things like "shouldn't" or Won't for said reasons... That i am fine with..> Healthy debate i am fine with...

But speaking in a "matter of fact" type position is dare i say again... LUDICRIS!

[Tysonbruno]

This is why because Floyd has pure boxing skills and look at Pacquiao vs Marquez remove the knockdowns and go just on the boxing Marquez won twice and same with Morales 1. Floyd is all wrong for Pacquiao he will win easy cos he is a far better boxer than either of them 2 Pacquiao has improved slightly in last 20 months since last Marquez fight but not much.

[Intazzz]

lol no matter how you praise your own precious Floyd Mayweather Jr.


Manny Pacquiao is still the better fighter and above Mayweather Jr. right now. unless he proves it by fighting elite fighters.

Mayweather's keep talking sh*t. Asking high split against pacman means he don't want to fight the guy.

Anyway stop comparing the fight between Marquez because that's garbage now.

Pacquiao is a complete monster fighter.

[Taeth]

Being ranked higher on the ATG list isn't about being the better fighter, its about having the better legacy. Those aren't always the same thing. Joe Louis wouldn't beat Lennox Lewis if his life depended on it, but he's ranked way higher p4p.

Whitaker could beat most of the guys ranked higher than him p4p, but he's still ranked lower because of the lack of drama in his fights.

We constantly see great defensive fighters being ranked lower than great offensive fighters because they look less spectacular. That's why in the top 10 only two of them were considered truly defensive masters (Willie Pep and Benny Leonard), but Leonard had a punch as well. Some people could arguably put Jack Johnson in their top 10 p4p and he was defensive, but he was in a different league than the fighters of his time in every aspect.

All in all people are criticizing me of comparing Pacquiao-marquez to Mayweather-Marquez when I am not. I am comparing Marquez to Mayweather, and what Marquez did to Pacquiao, then seeing what a much better fighter would do in that same situation.

People are overreacting to what I am saying because all they are thinking with their hearts and not their heads, but remember I was the one who said size won't be enough for Hatton or Cotto to beat Pacquiao, I was the one saying Pacquiao could hurt Hatton or Cotto, and that it might be one sided. Now I didn't expect Pacquiao to take Cotto's punches quite as well as he did and I give him kudos for that, but all MAyweather needs to do is keep on landing, I don't think he will ever hurt Pacquiao badly, but Floyd wears a fighter's mind down.

You look at every fighter Mayweather faces, and you see the same thing, they get frustrated because they can't land they get picked apart, even if the punches aren't really hurting them.

Also I don't see why its so hard for people to think Mayweather would back of Manny or fight in the middle. Manny doesn't control the distance between the fighters like a Miguel Cotto or Oscar De La Hoya, all he cares about is having enough distance to get his punches off effectively, or out flurrying his opponent, but what happens when the guy he is facing lands first not only because he is just as fast, but also because he has better reach and straighter punches. Mayweather might not wobble Pacquiao, but if he tees off with his cross, Manny won't be in position to counter, just like against Marquez. Also if you are right in front of Manny with your hands up, he doesn't get the space to put a lot of power in his punches because he doesn't get that legendary body rotation into his left hand or right hook. That's why Cotto only got hurt and hit flush when he got reckless offensively. Either than that Manny was largely landing glancing blows or hitting Cotto on the gloves.

The fact of the matter is I've seen Pacquiao be most effective when he's coming forward or being somebody is recklessly trying to bombard him with pressure. He's been least effective(two fights with Marquez and 1st fight with Morales) when he is forced to box in the middle of the ring and that is because he can't load up that left cross, and he doesn't have a dominant jab, and most of all he doesn't have great defense which means quick accurate punchers hit him quite easily. I've seen Cotto, Marquez, and Morales outbox Pacquiao I think 2 of those fights (Morales and MArquez 1) weren't the modern version of Manny, but you can see the holes that still exist in the Cotto and MArquez 2 fight. It will just take a very special fighter to take advantage of those oppertunities, and be able to match Pacquiao unbelievable athletic gifts, and Mayweather fills all the quotas needed.

1. He's as fast as Manny.
2. Best counter puncher in the world
3. Hardest guy to hit in the world
4. Most accurate puncher in the world
5. Great chin
6. Stamina to match Manny's.
7. Arguably the greatest technical fighter ever.

Manny does have his own traits
1. Fast as anyone in the sport(except Berto)
2. Special knockout power.
3. great accuracy and ability to land multiple punches in a row.
4. A+ chin
5. underrated defensive skills.
6. amazing angles and foot movement.

I think this fight most reminds of in Football in the early 2000's when Patriot's were a much defensively oriented team, and Colts just couldn't get anything done offensively as good as they were, but Patriots were always able to do just enough to win those games.

I don't think Mayweather is a way better fighter than Pacquiao even if he beats Manny in an overwhelmingly decisive manner, but I think he is a little bit better and their styles match up really well for him.

[Gandalf]

To say Manny can't beat Floyd is like one of those comments you get from adolescents on You Tube. Of course Manny has a chance of beating Floyd! Personally, I think it will be a serious test for Mayweather and wouldn't be surprised to see Manny tweak his game further and actually go on and beat him.

Manny has the speed, output and variety of punching to give Mayweather fits. It would be a quality fight, I would go as far as to call it a pick 'em.

[Taeth]

1. Mayweather has a way better chin than Hatton or Cotto and he's 10x harder to hit cleanly.

2. Watch Mayweather any other southpaw.

3. Pacquiao didn't stand there against Marquez, who hit him continually with ease. That same Marquez is slower, smaller, and less accurate than Mayweather as was painfully evident in their fight.

4. Larry Merchant is a fucking idiot. When Cotto was coming forward and staying cautious he was beating Manny, when he opened up tried to trade, he was getting beaten up by Manny.[/quote]


Mayweather has a better chin then Cotto? How do we know this? When has Floyds chin really been tested? Floyd like Roy Jones in his prime does not get hit enough to know what his chin is really like.[/quote]

He got hit by the same punch as Cotto did against a far fresher version of Corley, and was far less hurt.
2. He took a clean left hook at the end of 12 rounds against De La Hoya with no problems.
3. He took Judah's power way better than Cotto did, and Judah looked way sharper when he faced Mayweather.
4. Mayweather as champion has been slighly stunned once(against Demarcus Corley). Cotto has been stunned numerous times at 140 and 147(to a lesser degree).

All in all there is no question that Mayweather has a far better chin than Cotto.

[Taeth]

To say Manny can't beat Floyd is like one of those comments you get from adolescents on You Tube. Of course Manny has a chance of beating Floyd! Personally, I think it will be a serious test for Mayweather and wouldn't be surprised to see Manny tweak his game further and actually go on and beat him.

Manny has the speed, output and variety of punching to give Mayweather fits. It would be a quality fight, I would go as far as to call it a pick 'em.

Some fights there is just too much of a stylistic disadvantage for one guy to overcome that it would have to be a really bad night for the other guy to lose.

Its like Hopkins-Pavlik/Trinidad it would have taken something really wrong with Hopkins to lose those fights. I think they looked against almost everyone, but there were glaring holes in their technique and it took the right fighter to bring those problems to bare. I think Pacquiao has far less issues than they do, but Mayweather's style matches up better against Manny then Hopkins' style did versus Tito and Kelly.

[miron_lang]

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Taeth


No disrespect mate but the thread title sounds stupid really. I mean cmon ....

....all due respect miron_lang, but Taeth did give very sound reasoning and examples behind his opinion.

maybe it's best titled "Why Manny SHOULDN'T beat Floyd" or "Why Manny WON'T beat Floyd" but I digress.

Manny Pacquiao has proven himself to be a very dangerous fighter, but at times he hasn't been this great. People point alot to the Marquez fight, but hell how about the first fight with Morales

Floyd is going to be difficult for Manny to beat because Manny is the puncher and Floyd is the defensive expert BUT Floyd can also hurt guys with his counterpunching and I doubt Manny's defense is up to the task of outdueling PBF, it's not Manny's style

Bolded ==> Exactly my point.

1. They say a fighter is as good as his last fight so...
2. Morales 1? Pac was @126 before that fight. I hope you will agree that Pac improved since then

[michigan20]

I personally dont really like either fighter but I believe that this is a dream match up in favor of mayweather for a few reasons. He's bigger in terms of reach and weight. Reality is that manny will probably weigh about 145 for the fight while mayweather will be closer to 153 on the actual day of the fight.

My second reasoning came from breaking down there styles and opponents. Now i dont believe that ABC logic works in sports. i mean muhammad ali lost to joe frazier and ken norton while george foreman knocked both of them out. but the closest thing to a mayweather that pacman has fought is jmm. manny's bread and butter is that one two and he tends to lunge a bit with the left and once marquez got the timing down he effectively controlled it and counter him numerous times and was able to hurt him while they were at the same weight. so im gonna imagine that a better counter puncher, whose bigger, and faster should have at least equal success or greater.

Thirdly, manny is a southpaw. Common boxing knowledge dictates that your most effective punch is the straight right against them. This again benefits mayweather because not only the reach factor but because he throws less jabs that your average boxer and is more straights than the average fighter.
Also much of manny success has come against opponents where his speed advantage was clear and away particularly against hispanic fighters ( not tryin to say there slower than any other fighters) who generally fight with no head movement and move straight at there opponents. this has allowed manny to move in and out with his superior speed and bounce around and attack from different angles with his one two. He wont have those advantages against mayweather and if the much slower marquez could slow him down and clearly frustrate manny in both fights i have to believe that mayweather who is as fast, much greater defensive ability and even better countering skills is just gonna pick him off with straights taking advantage of his reach and not letting manny line up to blitz with his left. Mayweather wont do much damage but he'll frustrate manny and dominate on the punchbox % and the score cards

[miron_lang]

I personally dont really like either fighter but I believe that this is a dream match up in favor of mayweather for a few reasons. He's bigger in terms of reach and weight. Reality is that manny will probably weigh about 145 for the fight while mayweather will be closer to 153 on the actual day of the fight.

My second reasoning came from breaking down there styles and opponents. Now i dont believe that ABC logic works in sports. i mean muhammad ali lost to joe frazier and ken norton while george foreman knocked both of them out. but the closest thing to a mayweather that pacman has fought is jmm. manny's bread and butter is that one two and he tends to lunge a bit with the left and once marquez got the timing down he effectively controlled it and counter him numerous times and was able to hurt him while they were at the same weight. so im gonna imagine that a better counter puncher, whose bigger, and faster should have at least equal success or greater.

Thirdly, manny is a southpaw. Common boxing knowledge dictates that your most effective punch is the straight right against them. This again benefits mayweather because not only the reach factor but because he throws less jabs that your average boxer and is more straights than the average fighter.
Also much of manny success has come against opponents where his speed advantage was clear and away particularly against hispanic fighters ( not tryin to say there slower than any other fighters) who generally fight with no head movement and move straight at there opponents. this has allowed manny to move in and out with his superior speed and bounce around and attack from different angles with his one two. He wont have those advantages against mayweather and if the much slower marquez could slow him down and clearly frustrate manny in both fights i have to believe that mayweather who is as fast, much greater defensive ability and even better countering skills is just gonna pick him off with straights taking advantage of his reach and not letting manny line up to blitz with his left. Mayweather wont do much damage but he'll frustrate manny and dominate on the punchbox % and the score cards

Did you watch Pac-Cotto? or maybe even DLH and DIaz fights?

[terrorsid]

PAC NEEDS TO STUDY HARD IF HE WANTS 2 WIN. IT WONT BE EASY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=din0rds-EfI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a7x-WZYHZI

[THE THIRD MAN]

First of all I am as big of a Pacquiao supporter as anyone on here, people said I was a nuthugger, but now that Pacquiao has emphatically proven himself an ATG, at least top 15 ever. After watching both Mayweather-marquez and Pacquiao-Cotto live, I know that Manny won't beat Floyd.

1st. Manny showed something I didn't think he had, the ability to absorbs Cotto's power and stand there and trade, but that doesn't help him whatsoever against Mayweather. Mayweather doesn't need to hurt you to dominate you.

2nd: Mayweather comes forward against southpaws, and Manny needs space to get off his punches, but also he isn't nearly as effective going backwards. Mayweather will keep Manny on his heels and constantly land that right cross which Manny is wide open for all night long.

3rd: Speed. Now they are both the same speed, but Manny relies on being faster way more than Mayweather, thats why the faster the opponent's hands and/or feet are the harder of a time Manny has with them.

4th: Holes. I think Cotto did a good job early of showing that if you are brave enough Manny can be counter effectively because he leaves himself so wide open after he throws punches, I think Marquez demonstrated this far more accutely in their two fights. I think Judah gave Cotto less problems than Manny because Cotto can be hit, but you need to throw punches to hit somebody, and Judah doesn't throw enough punches. I think Judah in terms of landing solidly would give Mayweather more problems than Pacquiao because against Mayweather its about landing that tight left cross as a counter puncher that does the trick, and Manny doesn't have that punch. Manny whole style and stance doesn't allow for him to catch somebody coming in with the left cross effectively. He either flurries back or counters with the right hook which Floyd would easily dodge.

Conclusion: Mayweather will carefully back Pacquiao up, take a couple of rounds to get used to his speed and what he does(just like against Judah), then Floyd will pick Manny's porous defense apart. If guys like Marquez and Cotto can left cleanly on Manny then Mayweather will do it much easier than either of them, and nobody lands punches in bunches consistently against Floyd who also has a great chin if some punches get through.

I've seen threads "Why Manny can't beat Oscar"? "Why Manny can't beat Hatton"? 'Why Manny can't beat Cotto" ? My question is can Floyd beat Manny? So many people on this forum have not believed in Pacquaio (including me) and yet he proves us wrong each time. Manny Pacquaio has the best chance yet of beating Floyd Mayweather, it will be a helluva fight and Floyd will have to be at the very top of his game to withstand the onslaught that he will be getting from Manny Pacquaio. I believe PBF to be the best defensive fighter i have ever seen, he will need all of this skill to hold off and beat Manny Pacquaio. If Manny hits him then things get really interesting.