How is it possible to win a 147 title belt below the welterweight limit?

[the_sacred_chilli]

also i like this guy who thinks that 147lb is the min/max weight.

we have all heard of fighters weighing in at second or third attempt, having had to sweat off the last few ounces in between attempts, but imagine this:

a fighter weighing in at the second attempt having had to go to kfc and eat a family bucket, with all the trimmings, just to get up to this min/max limit.

awesome

[Kev]

Well first of all this is not an anti-pac thread. I feel Pac would of done the same at 147. I just don't see how he could have won the 147 title at 145.. Usually when a boxer comes 1 or 2 pounds under the limit the titles are not on the line. Which leads me to my question.. What are the rules, can you fight for the 147 title at 140 ? First of all catchweights suck but to be able to win titles at heavier weights without fighting at them is B/S... This opens up all possibilities...

To my knowledge never in the history of boxing has a title not been on the line because a fighter came 2 lbs under the maximum limit.

Under the rules both could have weighed in at 141 lbs and it would have still been a legitimate welterweight fight.

The 147 limit is a MAXIMUM limit not a forced weight that both fighters must weigh.

[purtyboy]

Ok let me rephrase my question... Why set a limit for the Welterweight belt of 145 for a belt that goes up to 147? Belts should not be won at a Catch Weight ... IMO

*edit weights*

[the_sacred_chilli]

Ok let me rephrase my question... Why set a limit for the Welterweight belt of 155 for a belt that goes up to 157? Belts should not be won at a Catch Weight ... IMO

are you drunk? ww is 140 - 147.

[purtyboy]

Ok let me rephrase my question... Why set a limit for the Welterweight belt of 155 for a belt that goes up to 157? Belts should not be won at a Catch Weight ... IMO

are you drunk? ww is 140 - 147.

lmfao mb it's a typo <_< 145 - 147 i meant... Belts should not be won at a Catch Weight is the message

[killersheep]

Ok let me rephrase my question... Why set a limit for the Welterweight belt of 155 for a belt that goes up to 157? Belts should not be won at a Catch Weight ... IMO

I agree that catchweights are bullshit, and they never really "level the playing field". They only serve to detrimentally effect one fighter, with less bargaining power. If a fighter wants to fight at welter, they should fight at welter. These are just things I want though, not an enforcement of the rules.

However, as long as the agreed upon weight by the fighters falls WITHIN the preset weight limits AND the fighters make weight. There is no violation from the sanctioning stand point.

[Pancho V]

Ok let me rephrase my question... Why set a limit for the Welterweight belt of 155 for a belt that goes up to 157? Belts should not be won at a Catch Weight ... IMO

I would rephrase it like this.

How is it possible for Cotto to win the WBO WW belt @ 146 ?
Cotto (146) - Jennings(146.5) 2/21/09


How is it possible for Pac to win the WBO WW belt @ 144?
Pac (144) - Cotto(145) 11/14/09


Because WBO/WBC/IBF/WBA... says so.

[the_sacred_chilli]

i would agree with you if it had been the champion demanding it, but it wasnt it was the challenger.

cotto signed the contract with this clause cos it made him a lot of money, or he got some other concession in return (ring size, or glove weight or something) a gamble that would have been well worth it, if it had come off. but this is something that will always happen, as boxing is business. Unlike ufc where they are centrally contracted. correct me if i am worng but dont think there have been any catchweight title fights in ufc

but fighters dont always weigh in at the limit. eg hatton - pacquiao

138/140

and this is not even taking into account the weight they put on in the last 24 hrs.

[jamiebhoy]

So for anyone who hasn't got it yet:

A welterweight fight is for anyone 147 or less.

Cotto was daft/ desperate enough to fight Manny to agree to have a 145 maximum for this fight. Had he had better negotiators or even cared then he could have weighed at anything up to 147.

The fact is Manny was a big money match and to do the fight he had to agree to his terms.

And yes a super flyweight could fight a heavyweight for their title.

Nowadays I don't think that's still possible, I think there was a ruling in the late 80s that you had to also meet the minimum weight requirements to fight for a title. Might have been around the time of the Leonard-Duran rubber match.

As for the lb issue, when you have to make weight, it's those last few lbs that get you. I'm not saying this is the case with Cotto, but I think if it was say Mosley, then cutting down to 145 now would be very difficult for him. It all depends on what each individual's limit is.

Don't you reckon someone would have challenged for the HW title even if they weren't in the limit , say a SMW,or Cruiser ?? Why not, 'cause you can't.

As for Pac , he is the WW champ , no problem recognising him as such as he falls within the allowable weight bracket. The problem now lies in telling someone what they have to come in at inside a specific weight category. The sanctioning bodies ar ethe ones losing the control, they need to say here's the limit deal with it.

As for the previous comment about being able to crap 2lbs so what does it matter, where would you end that, does the same apply if you come in over the limit ? Waht is the result then, does the fight go ahead does the belt stay applicable ?

140 -147 , come in where you want , win, take the title. Don't tell the other guy what to weigh he can come in anywhere he wants .

[Kev]

I think you guys are just covering yourselves in red tape and letting rules and regulations blind you to common sense.

The fact that Manny fought Cotto at 145 really made no difference to our enjoyment of the fight.

The important thing is that the best fight the best where possible not that the rules and regulations of a sanctioning body or the strict traditions of a weight class get fully adhered to.

We are human beings not objects. None of us live permanently and only at one fixed weight who really gives a fuck if Manny and Floyd weigh 145 lbs when they fight or 147 lbs?

As long as it's not detrimental to either fighter to lose more weight than they are safely able to I don't care what weight they fight at, I just want to see the fight.

The weight classes exist to allow smaller fighters to fight for world titles against fighters of their own weight, and thus to recognised as the best in the world in their class.

Manny and Floyd have ALREADY proven themselves the best in the world in their weight class, we don't need a sanctioning belt to tell us that. Both Floyd and Manny have been succesful in multiple weight classes so let them fight at whatever weights they want.

As long as neither fighter is drained I really don't see why anyone gives a shit.

[killersheep]

I think you guys are just covering yourselves in red tape and letting rules and regulations blind you to common sense.

The fact that Manny fought Cotto at 145 really made no difference to our enjoyment of the fight.

The important thing is that the best fight the best where possible not that the rules and regulations of a sanctioning body or the strict traditions of a weight class get fully adhered to.

We are human beings not objects. None of us live permanently and only at one fixed weight who really gives a fuck if Manny and Floyd weigh 145 lbs when they fight or 147 lbs?

As long as it's not detrimental to either fighter to lose more weight than they are safely able to I don't care what weight they fight at, I just want to see the fight.

The weight classes exist to allow smaller fighters to fight for world titles against fighters of their own weight, and thus to recognised as the best in the world in their class.

Manny and Floyd have ALREADY proven themselves the best in the world in their weight class, we don't need a sanctioning belt to tell us that. Both Floyd and Manny have been succesful in multiple weight classes so let them fight at whatever weights they want.

As long as neither fighter is drained I really don't see why anyone gives a shit.

Well the thread topic is about the title and it's relativity to actual weight so yeah. Red tape suits for all!

[Kev]

I think you guys are just covering yourselves in red tape and letting rules and regulations blind you to common sense.

The fact that Manny fought Cotto at 145 really made no difference to our enjoyment of the fight.

The important thing is that the best fight the best where possible not that the rules and regulations of a sanctioning body or the strict traditions of a weight class get fully adhered to.

We are human beings not objects. None of us live permanently and only at one fixed weight who really gives a fuck if Manny and Floyd weigh 145 lbs when they fight or 147 lbs?

As long as it's not detrimental to either fighter to lose more weight than they are safely able to I don't care what weight they fight at, I just want to see the fight.

The weight classes exist to allow smaller fighters to fight for world titles against fighters of their own weight, and thus to recognised as the best in the world in their class.

Manny and Floyd have ALREADY proven themselves the best in the world in their weight class, we don't need a sanctioning belt to tell us that. Both Floyd and Manny have been succesful in multiple weight classes so let them fight at whatever weights they want.

As long as neither fighter is drained I really don't see why anyone gives a shit.

Well the thread topic is about the title and it's relativity to actual weight so yeah. Red tape suits for all!

But the 147 lb limit is the MAX limit not the limit they have to fight at. A fighter can weigh in anywhere between 141 and 147 and its a legit weltweight fight under the rules.

A fighter is free to weighh within those limits but not under 140 and not over 147.

As I said in a previous post when the Cotto Manny fight was announced any agreement between Manny and Floyd about catchweight is seperate from the sanctioning body.

If Floyd agrees to come in at 145 and actually weighs 147 it won't mean the fight gets stopped, he won't have broken any sanctioning body rules and he is free to fight at 147.

However, he will have violated a private contract signed between himself and Manny and under those terms would be bound to meet any penalties owing for infracting that stipulation, most likely a fine or cut of profits.

It was the same with his fight with Marquez. He agreed 145 lbs, he didn't even try and make that weight and instead came in at 147 anyway. The sanctioning body don't care at all as he made weight according to their rules but he had to pay Marquez a couple million dollars for violating their private agreement.

Personally I'm all in favour of fighters having the power to negotiate their own contracts and wieght arrangements. Anything that helps faciliate the process of the big fights being made should be applauded.

It's not the weight classes that make boxing, its the fighters.

[killersheep]

I think you guys are just covering yourselves in red tape and letting rules and regulations blind you to common sense.

The fact that Manny fought Cotto at 145 really made no difference to our enjoyment of the fight.

The important thing is that the best fight the best where possible not that the rules and regulations of a sanctioning body or the strict traditions of a weight class get fully adhered to.

We are human beings not objects. None of us live permanently and only at one fixed weight who really gives a fuck if Manny and Floyd weigh 145 lbs when they fight or 147 lbs?

As long as it's not detrimental to either fighter to lose more weight than they are safely able to I don't care what weight they fight at, I just want to see the fight.

The weight classes exist to allow smaller fighters to fight for world titles against fighters of their own weight, and thus to recognised as the best in the world in their class.

Manny and Floyd have ALREADY proven themselves the best in the world in their weight class, we don't need a sanctioning belt to tell us that. Both Floyd and Manny have been succesful in multiple weight classes so let them fight at whatever weights they want.

As long as neither fighter is drained I really don't see why anyone gives a shit.

Well the thread topic is about the title and it's relativity to actual weight so yeah. Red tape suits for all!

But the 147 lb limit is the MAX limit not the limit they have to fight at. A fighter can weigh in anywhere between 141 and 147 and its a legit weltweight fight under the rules.

A fighter is free to weighh within those limits but not under 140 and not over 147.

As I said in a previous post when the Cotto Manny fight was announced any agreement between Manny and Floyd about catchweight is seperate from the sanctioning body.

If Floyd agrees to come in at 145 and actually weighs 147 it won't mean the fight gets stopped, he won't have broken any sanctioning body rules and he is free to fight at 147.

However, he will have violated a private contract signed between himself and Manny and under those terms would be bound to meet any penalties owing for infracting that stipulation, most likely a fine or cut of profits.

It was the same with his fight with Marquez. He agreed 145 lbs, he didn't even try and make that weight and instead came in at 147 anyway. The sanctioning body don't care at all as he made weight according to their rules but he had to pay Marquez a couple million dollars for violating their private agreement.

Personally I'm all in favour of fighters having the power to negotiate their own contracts and wieght arrangements. Anything that helps faciliate the process of the big fights being made should be applauded.

It's not the weight classes that make boxing, its the fighters.

Not sure why you replied to my post with that. I think you meant to reply to someone else maybe? Try reading my other posts on here.

[Pacdbest2]

I don't listen!!!

[TheBranMan]

Ok let me rephrase my question... Why set a limit for the Welterweight belt of 145 for a belt that goes up to 147? Belts should not be won at a Catch Weight ... IMO

*edit weights*

Agreed, completely. Every concession has been made for Manny. Diamond belt? WTF? As if there already weren't enough belts in boxing... Now he's not only considered a welterweight, but holds welterweight titles when he's never actually fought at 147 (that's the actual welterweight limit for anyone who doesn't know). Boxing (the sport I love) is getting RIDICULOUS